Who are the storied franchises in MLB?

[Robotech]

Didn’t leave a lot of room for discussion. I think you nailed all the teams and out them in their proper tiers.

Yankees

Sox / Giants / Dogs / Cubs / Cards

A’s / Reds / Pirates / Braves / Tigers

Everyone else

Basically, you have the 3 rivalries and then a few special cases then everyone else.

That about covers it.

Maybe a more interesting discussion is ranking the rivalries. Yankees-Red Sox is number one. I believe Giants-Dodgers is number 2, but I'm biased. Cubs-Cardinals no. 3, but what are the other rivalries beyond these three? The interleague ones, I guess. I guess there is now a Astros-Dodgers rivalry. I would say that there is a Cards-Giants rivalry and a Cards-Dodgers rivalry because of the numerous postseason matchups. Is Dodgers-Padres a real rivalry?

 

[Cedrique]

Reasons?

Why no Giants or Cards?

I thought 4 was enough. I view "storied" kind of literally so the best way for me to come up with my list is kind of to do it off the top of my head. (and if you go to the storied football teams thread I did the same thing and at the end of the long poll the teams with the most votes ended up being the exact 4 I pulled out of my ass. It's a gift I tell you).

So here's how I believe my brain arrived at these 4 teams in 30 seconds.
First of all baseball fandom is a very local thing, much moreso than other sports because there are so many games. And the local markets usually have announcers who have ties to the team and with all the down time in baseball they often tell stories about past teams. So to the individual fan, whatever tv/radio market they happened to grow up in is the most storied. I grew up in the Phillies market so I grew up hearing Tim McCarver and Richie Ashburn tell stories about the previous Phillies teams. But I'm not picking them because I don't think they are the most storied to the average person and I would be biased anyway.

So of the 4 I gave the Yankees stand out as the most storied by a good margin. They are storied because there have been more movies, books , cultural references about them than any other team. They also stay in the limelight by consistently winning. The other three are actually more famous for losing, but I still feel they are the most storied.

The Dodgers had a lot of great teams that lost to the Yankees back when there weren't a bunch of different rounds of playoffs. Then later they had Jackie Robinson, and in the 70's and early 80's (which happened to be when I was a kid) they had some great, recognizable teams. Players like Steve Garvey, Ron Cey, the year the whole infield hit 30 hrs, etc.

The Red Sox are more storied for having good teams that didn't win, even though they have been very successful in the 21st century. The 60's 70's and 80s they were full of well known players like Yaz Fisk, Rice,Lynn, etc. They had the Tony Conigliaro story, the people with the signs saying "Now I can die in peace" when they finally won a World Series, the Babe Ruth curse, Sweet Caroline. Plus they kept the same unique stadium all these years.

Speaking of Stadiums, Wrigley Field is iconic. When I was growing up they still didn't have night time games there, and I'm not even that old. They are featured in movies, the Bleacher Bums are well known, the fans are known (not always in the best light but definitely storied).


So there you have it. For the record, I do think if I thought about it for a while the next 2 would probably be the Giants and Cardinals.
One of the more storied moments in baseball was when Bobby Thompson hit that walkoff homer when he was with the Giants. I think they might have even won the Pennant that year? Did they win the Pennant? I'm pretty sure they won the pennant.

 

[Robotech]

I thought 4 was enough. I view "storied" kind of literally so the best way for me to come up with my list is kind of to do it off the top of my head. (and if you go to the storied football teams thread I did the same thing and at the end of the long poll the teams with the most votes ended up being the exact 4 I pulled out of my ass. It's a gift I tell you).

So here's how I believe my brain arrived at these 4 teams in 30 seconds.
First of all baseball fandom is a very local thing, much moreso than other sports because there are so many games. And the local markets usually have announcers who have ties to the team and with all the down time in baseball they often tell stories about past teams. So to the individual fan, whatever tv/radio market they happened to grow up in is the most storied. I grew up in the Phillies market so I grew up hearing Tim McCarver and Richie Ashburn tell stories about the previous Phillies teams. But I'm not picking them because I don't think they are the most storied to the average person and I would be biased anyway.

So of the 4 I gave the Yankees stand out as the most storied by a good margin. They are storied because there have been more movies, books , cultural references about them than any other team. They also stay in the limelight by consistently winning. The other three are actually more famous for losing, but I still feel they are the most storied.

The Dodgers had a lot of great teams that lost to the Yankees back when there weren't a bunch of different rounds of playoffs. Then later they had Jackie Robinson, and in the 70's and early 80's (which happened to be when I was a kid) they had some great, recognizable teams. Players like Steve Garvey, Ron Cey, the year the whole infield hit 30 hrs, etc.

The Red Sox are more storied for having good teams that didn't win, even though they have been very successful in the 21st century. The 60's 70's and 80s they were full of well known players like Yaz Fisk, Rice,Lynn, etc. They had the Tony Conigliaro story, the people with the signs saying "Now I can die in peace" when they finally won a World Series, the Babe Ruth curse, Sweet Caroline. Plus they kept the same unique stadium all these years.

Speaking of Stadiums, Wrigley Field is iconic. When I was growing up they still didn't have night time games there, and I'm not even that old. They are featured in movies, the Bleacher Bums are well known, the fans are known (not always in the best light but definitely storied).


So there you have it. For the record, I do think if I thought about it for a while the next 2 would probably be the Giants and Cardinals.
One of the more storied moments in baseball was when Bobby Thompson hit that walkoff homer when he was with the Giants. I think they might have even won the Pennant that year? Did they win the Pennant? I'm pretty sure they won the pennant.

Yeah, the top of your head test is probably a pretty good one. The storied teams are the ones that are so prominent that they are present at the forefront of most people's minds.

 

[Cedrique]

Yeah, the top of your head test is probably a pretty good one. The storied teams are the ones that are so prominent that they are present at the forefront of most people's minds.

yeah the more I think about it keeping the same stadium for a long time probably plays a part in being storied. You can see movies with Wrigley Field or Fenway from years ago and the stadiums are basically the same as they were 100 years ago. Not just the stadium, but the stadium name. I can't keep track of the stadium names any more. Maybe they need more stadiums to be sponsored by gum instead of banks that change their name every time they merge with another bank.

 

[Robotech]

yeah the more I think about it keeping the same stadium for a long time probably plays a part in being storied. You can see movies with Wrigley Field or Fenway from years ago and the stadiums are basically the same as they were 100 years ago. Not just the stadium, but the stadium name. I can't keep track of the stadium names any more. Maybe they need more stadiums to be sponsored by gum instead of banks that change their name every time they merge with another bank.

So true. Perhaps the Giants would be more storied if not for all the stadium name changes. Candlestick had to go, but looking back, I wish that the Giants could have kept the name Pac Bell Park the whole time for the new stadium. It had a nice ring to it! Pun intended. LOL. Keeping the same name builds and maintains tradition.

I think it's awful that the Lakers' arena is now Crypto.com Arena. Staples Center wasn't a great name, but it was starting to build a tradition and was a much better name than Crypto.com Arena. If Dodgers Stadium were ever to change its name, we should all sue for intentional infliction of emotional distress.

 

[Voltaire26]

I've done a similar thread for the NFL and NBA, and I followed up both of those threads with a poll. Not sure we need a poll for this one. I think it is very clear that the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants, Cubs, and Cardinals are storied. Yankees are in their own tier. Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants, Cubs, and Cardinals are in the next tier.

What might be less clear is whether the following teams are storied: Tigers, A's, Braves, Reds, and Pirates. I would argue that they are, but I'd love to hear what others think. I'd also love to hear if a team I omitted should belong.

I would drop the Cubs right off any tiers listed. Drop the Red Sox a tier.

As a Tiger fan, our all time team could hang with anyone even the Yankees, but we have not won enough for a higher tier.

 

[broncosmitty]

Yeah, the definition of storied is going to be different for everyone. Here are factors that I consider:

1. Total number of World Series trophies.

2. Recent success. If a team hasn't had much success in recent decades, then they lose points for me.

3. Uniform. Bonus points if a team has an aesthetically pleasing look. Negative points if I think the uniform is ugly.

4. Team name. Bonus points for a great team name like Tigers, Dodgers, Giants, Yankees, etc. Negative points, at least temporarily, for a recent name change.

5. Hall of Famers and memorable people associated with a team even if they aren't in the Hall of Fame. I can't wipe Clemens, Bonds, and McGwire from my memory just because they aren't in the Hall of Fame.

6. Relocations. I know I'm biased because I'm a Giants fan, but this is what think: If a team relocated once and it was long ago, then this doesn't hurt them. Dodgers, Giants, Braves, Rangers don't lose points for this.

If a team has relocated more than once or it is relatively recent, then it hurts them. This applies to the Athletics, but they still make my list of storied franchises. This also applies to the Nationals, but the Expos/Nationals wouldn't make it on my list even if they didn't relocate.

7. Rivalries. This helps the Red Sox (Yankees don't need help), Dodgers, Giants, Cardinals, and Cubs.

8. Age of team. Sorry Rays, Diamondbacks, Marlins, and Rockies.

9. Importance in the folklore of the game. Cubs score big here. So do other teams, but the Cubs are the biggest beneficiary of this factor, IMO.

10. Appearances in art, books, films, etc. This would've helped the Cleveland Indians, but they changed their name. Major League is one of my favorite baseball films. Yankees are in a bunch of stuff.

11. Historically significant events that go beyond baseball. Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier. Larry Doby breaking the AL color barrier with the Indians.

As far as #6 goes, the Braves have moved multiple times and don’t even play in Atlanta now.

 

[Robotech]

As far as #6 goes, the Braves have moved multiple times and don’t even play in Atlanta now.

Right. They were Boston, Milwaukee, and then Atlanta, right? I don't think we should count the moves within Georgia against them, though.

I'll ding them for the multiple moves, but they still make it on my list for storied teams because of Hank Aaron, Eddie Mathews, Warren Spahn, and '90s Braves.

 

[Robotech]

Braves get some extra points because of TBS. I watched a lot of Braves games when I was a kid. I'm sure many others did, too.

 

[broncosmitty]

Right. They were Boston, Milwaukee, and then Atlanta, right? I don't think we should count the moves within Georgia against them, though.

I'll ding them for the multiple moves, but they still make it on my list for storied teams because of Hank Aaron, Eddie Mathews, Warren Spahn, and '90s Braves.

Yeah, three cities. With six other names.


Bees, Rustlers, Doves, Beaneaters, Red Caps and Red Stockings.

Only have been the Braves(second stint with that name) since ‘41.

Also just learned that Yankees have had more home stadiums than any other AL franchise. Reds have that title for the NL.

 

[broncosmitty]

Eddie Matthews played more seasons with Detroit as his team than he did Atlanta.


Two.


But also played for the Braves in three cities. Which is pretty wild. Wonder if anyone else has ever done that?

 

[calsnowskier]

Right. They were Boston, Milwaukee, and then Atlanta, right? I don't think we should count the moves within Georgia against them, though.

I'll ding them for the multiple moves, but they still make it on my list for storied teams because of Hank Aaron, Eddie Mathews, Warren Spahn, and '90s Braves.

I think that looking at the collection of alumni is pretty critical in a task like this. No teams compare with the Spanks and Giants, but the Dogs, Cards, Sox, Tigers and Braves all put up respectable alumni as well.

 

[calsnowskier]

So true. Perhaps the Giants would be more storied if not for all the stadium name changes. Candlestick had to go, but looking back, I wish that the Giants could have kept the name Pac Bell Park the whole time for the new stadium. It had a nice ring to it! Pun intended. LOL. Keeping the same name builds and maintains tradition.

I think it's awful that the Lakers' arena is now Crypto.com Arena. Staples Center wasn't a great name, but it was starting to build a tradition and was a much better name than Crypto.com Arena. If Dodgers Stadium were ever to change its name, we should all sue for intentional infliction of emotional distress.

The Stick, as much as I love it because I grew up there, was a shithole. The Cove is fantastic, but it needs another 30-40 years before it can hang with any of the big boys. 3 championships and 4 trips to the showcase is an impressive history, but 21 years just isn’t long enough.

 

[broncosmitty]

I think that looking at the collection of alumni is pretty critical in a task like this. No teams compare with the Spanks and Giants, but the Dogs, Cards, Sox, Tigers and Braves all put up respectable alumni as well.

What’s your all time Giants lineup and rotation?


Not to put you on the spot, take your time if you don’t have one already made out in your head. I like this exercise in baseball trivia.

 

[Robotech]

What’s your all time Giants lineup and rotation?


Not to put you on the spot, take your time if you don’t have one already made out in your head. I like this exercise in baseball trivia.

This will be very much tilted towards players I actually watched play.

C Posey
1B Will Clark
2B Jeff Kent
3B Matt Williams
SS Brandon Crawford
LF Bonds
CF Mays
RF McCovey. Maybe this is cheating because he didn't play many games there.

 

[Robotech]

The Stick, as much as I love it because I grew up there, was a shithole. The Cove is fantastic, but it needs another 30-40 years before it can hang with any of the big boys. 3 championships and 4 trips to the showcase is an impressive history, but 21 years just isn’t long enough.

Hopefully we will one day see them clinch a WS there.

 

[calsnowskier]

How many teams have NOT moved cities and/or changed names, though (of the teams that have made our shortlists)?

Spanks - Baltimore Orioles, New York Highlander’s, New York Yankees
Red Sox - Americans, Red Sox
Doggies - 9 different names through their history
Cards - Brown Stockings, Browns, Perfectos, Cardinals
Giants - New York and San Francisco (always the Giants)
Cubs - White Stockings, Colts, Orphans, Cubs
Tigers - Always the Tigers
Reds - Red Stockings, Redlegs, Reds
A’s - Philly, KC, Oakland (always the Athletics)
Pirates - Allegheny’s, Pirates

 

[broncosmitty]

This will be very much tilted towards players I actually watched play.

C Posey
1B Will Clark
2B Jeff Kent
3B Matt Williams
SS Brandon Crawford
LF Bonds
CF Mays
RF McCovey. Maybe this is cheating because he didn't play many games there.

I’d prolly start Travis Jackson and George Davis. And Mel Ott is starting in RF and hitting in the middle of my order, for you guys.


I’d have

 

[Robotech]

How many teams have NOT moved cities and/or changed names, though (of the teams that have made our shortlists)?

Spanks - Baltimore Orioles, New York Highlander’s, New York Yankees
Red Sox - Americans, Red Sox
Doggies - 9 different names through their history
Cards - Brown Stockings, Browns, Perfectos, Cardinals
Giants - New York and San Francisco (always the Giants)
Cubs - White Stockings, Colts, Orphans, Cubs
Tigers - Always the Tigers
Reds - Red Stockings, Redlegs, Reds
A’s - Philly, KC, Oakland (always the Athletics)
Pirates - Allegheny’s, Pirates

Giants were the Gothams at one point very early in their history. Dodgers should go back to Bridegrooms. LOL.

 

[Robotech]

I’d prolly start Travis Jackson and George Davis. And Mel Ott is starting in RF and hitting in the middle of my order, for you guys.


I’d have

I probably need to bench Will Clark and put McCovey at 1B and Ott in RF. I just love Clark because he was my first favorite player. I never even knew about Jackson and Davis until you mentioned them.