Which city would be a good fit for another team?

[GNG]

San Antonio, Texas
Portland, Oregon
Las Vegas, Nevada

 

[GNG]

STL has a good MLB team and a kinda good NHL team so the city goes on fine with those two but it does say something about the limits of NFL appeal if a city can be totally indifferent to the existence of an NFL team even with a big gaping hole downtown.

St Louis is strictly a MLB city. They wouldn't support an NBA or NFL team when they had them.

 

[BigKen]

Rank
City; State
2010 population
2012 population
Growth / Decline
1
New York City; New York
8,175,133
8,336,697
161,564
2
Los Angeles; California
3,792,621
3,857,799
65,178
3
Chicago; Illinois
2,695,598
2,714,856
19,258
4
Houston; Texas
2,099,451
2,160,821
61,370
5
Philadelphia; Pennsylvania
1,526,006
1,547,607
21,601
6
Phoenix; Arizona
1,445,632
1,488,750
43,118
7
San Antonio; Texas
1,327,407
1,382,951
55,544
8
San Diego; California
1,307,402
1,338,348
30,946
9
Dallas; Texas
1,197,816
1,241,162
43,346
10
San Jose; California
945,942
982,765
36,823
11
Austin; Texas
790,390
842,592
52,202
12
Jacksonville; Florida
821,784
836,507
14,723
13
Indianapolis; Indiana
820,445
834,852
14,407
14
San Francisco; California
805,235
825,863
20,628
15
Columbus; Ohio
787,033
809,798
22,765
16
Fort Worth; Texas
741,206
777,992
36,786
17
Charlotte; North Carolina
731,424
775,202
43,778
18
Detroit; Michigan
713,777
701,475
-12,302
19
El Paso; Texas
649,121
672,538
23,417
20
Memphis; Tennessee
646,889
655,155
8,266
21
Boston; Massachusetts
617,594
636,479
18,885
22
Seattle; Washington
608,660
634,535
25,875
23
Denver; Colorado
600,158
634,265
34,107
24
Washington; DC
601,723
632,323
30,600
25
Nashville-Davidson; Tennessee
601,222
624,496
23,274
26
Baltimore; Maryland
620,961
621,342
381
27
Louisville/Jefferson; Kentucky
597,337
605,110
7,773
28
Portland; Oregon
583,776
603,106
19,330
29
Oklahoma ; Oklahoma
579,999
599,199
19,200
30
Milwaukee; Wisconsin
594,833
598,916
4,083
31
Las Vegas; Nevada
583,756
596,424
12,668
32
Albuquerque; New Mexico
545,852
555,417
9,565
33
Tucson; Arizona
520,116
524,295
4,179
34
Fresno; California
494,665
505,882
11,217
35
Sacramento; California
466,488
475,516
9,028
36
Long Beach; California
462,257
467,892
5,635
37
Kansas ; Missouri
459,787
464,310
4,523
38
Mesa; Arizona
439,041
452,084
13,043
39
Virginia Beach; Virginia
437,994
447,021
9,027
40
Atlanta; Georgia
420,003
443,775
23,772
41
Colorado Springs; Colorado
416,427
431,834
15,407
42
Raleigh; North Carolina
403,892
423,179
19,287
43
Omaha; Nebraska
408,958
421,570
12,612
44
Miami; Florida
399,457
413,892
14,435
45
Oakland; California
390,724
400,740
10,016
46
Tulsa; Oklahoma
391,906
393,987
2,081
47
Minneapolis; Minnesota
382,578
392,880
10,302
48
Cleveland; Ohio
396,815
390,928
-5,887
49
Wichita; Kansas
382,368
385,577
3,209
50
Arlington; Texas
365,438
375,600
10,162
51
New Orleans; Louisiana
343,829
369,250
25,421
52
Bakersfield; California
347,483
358,597
11,114
53
Tampa; Florida
335,709
347,645
11,936
54
Honolulu; Hawaii
337,256
345,610
8,354
55
Anaheim; California
336,265
343,248
6,983
56
Aurora; Colorado
325,078
339,030
13,952
57
Santa Ana; California
324,528
330,920
6,392
58
St. Louis; Missouri
319,294
318,172
-1,122
59
Riverside; California
303,871
313,673
9,802
60
Corpus Christi; Texas
305,215
312,195
6,980
61
Pittsburgh; Pennsylvania
305,704
306,211
507
62
Lexington-Fayette; Kentucky
295,803
305,489
9,686
63
Anchorage municipality, Alaska
291,826
298,610
6,784
64
Stockton; California
291,707
297,984
6,277
65
Cincinnati; Ohio
296,943
296,550
-393
66
St. Paul; Minnesota
285,068
290,770
5,702
67
Toledo; Ohio
287,208
284,012
-3,196
68
Newark; New Jersey
277,140
277,727
587
69
Greensboro; North Carolina
269,666
277,080
7,414
70
Plano; Texas
259,841
272,068
12,227
71
Henderson; Nevada
257,729
265,679
7,950
72
Lincoln; Nebraska
258,379
265,404
7,025
73
Buffalo; New York
261,310
259,384
-1,926
74
Fort Wayne; Indiana
253,691
254,555
864
75
Jersey ; New Jersey
247,597
254,441
6,844
76
Chula Vista; California
243,916
252,422
8,506
77
Orlando; Florida
238,300
249,562
11,262
78
St. Petersburg; Florida
244,769
246,541
1,772
79
Norfolk; Virginia
242,803
245,782
2,979
80
Chandler; Arizona
236,123
245,628
9,505
81
Laredo; Texas
236,091
244,731
8,640
82
Madison; Wisconsin
233,209
240,323
7,114
83
Durham; North Carolina
228,330
239,358
11,028
84
Lubbock; Texas
229,573
236,065
6,492
85
Winston-Salem; North Carolina
229,617
234,349
4,732
86
Garland; Texas
226,876
233,564
6,688
87
Glendale; Arizona
226,721
232,143
5,422
88
Hialeah; Florida
224,669
231,941
7,272
89
Reno; Nevada
225,221
231,027
5,806
90
Baton Rouge; Louisiana
229,493
230,058
565
91
Irvine; California
212,375
229,985
17,610
92
Chesapeake; Virginia
222,209
228,417
6,208
93
Irving; Texas
216,290
225,427
9,137
94
Scottsdale; Arizona
217,385
223,514
6,129
95
North Las Vegas; Nevada
216,961
223,491
6,530
96
Fremont; California
214,089
221,986
7,897
97
Gilbert town, Arizona
208,453
221,140
12,687
98
San Bernardino; California
209,924
213,295
3,371
99
Boise; Idaho
205,671
212,303
6,632
100
Birmingham; Alabama
212,237
212,038
-199
Source: US Census Bureau

 

[Shaggy]

STL has a good MLB team and a kinda good NHL team so the city goes on fine with those two but it does say something about the limits of NFL appeal if a city can be totally indifferent to the existence of an NFL team even with a big gaping hole downtown.

If the rams were ever good, it would be a different story. I bet if the rams had a winning team, they'd still be in stl.

 

[4thstreet]

Is Canada off the table? Toronto or Vancouver maybe?

Agree

 

[4thstreet]

Rank
City; State
2010 population
2012 population
Growth / Decline
1
New York City; New York
8,175,133
8,336,697
161,564
2
Los Angeles; California
3,792,621
3,857,799
65,178

******Toronto ,Ontario
2016 population- 2.79 million
I say they can support a team
3
Chicago; Illinois
2,695,598
2,714,856
19,258
4
Houston; Texas
2,099,451
2,160,821
61,370
5
Philadelphia; Pennsylvania
1,526,006
1,547,607
21,601
6
Phoenix; Arizona
1,445,632
1,488,750
43,118
7
San Antonio; Texas
1,327,407
1,382,951
55,544
8
San Diego; California
1,307,402
1,338,348
30,946
9
Dallas; Texas
1,197,816
1,241,162
43,346
10
San Jose; California
945,942
982,765
36,823
11
Austin; Texas
790,390
842,592
52,202
12
Jacksonville; Florida
821,784
836,507
14,723
13
Indianapolis; Indiana
820,445
834,852
14,407
14
San Francisco; California
805,235
825,863
20,628
15
Columbus; Ohio
787,033
809,798
22,765
16
Fort Worth; Texas
741,206
777,992
36,786
17
Charlotte; North Carolina
731,424
775,202
43,778
18
Detroit; Michigan
713,777
701,475
-12,302
19
El Paso; Texas
649,121
672,538
23,417
20
Memphis; Tennessee
646,889
655,155
8,266
21
Boston; Massachusetts
617,594
636,479
18,885
22
Seattle; Washington
608,660
634,535
25,875
23
Denver; Colorado
600,158
634,265
34,107
24
Washington; DC
601,723
632,323
30,600
25
Nashville-Davidson; Tennessee
601,222
624,496
23,274
26
Baltimore; Maryland
620,961
621,342
381
27
Louisville/Jefferson; Kentucky
597,337
605,110
7,773
28
Portland; Oregon
583,776
603,106
19,330
29
Oklahoma ; Oklahoma
579,999
599,199
19,200
30
Milwaukee; Wisconsin
594,833
598,916
4,083
31
Las Vegas; Nevada
583,756
596,424
12,668
32
Albuquerque; New Mexico
545,852
555,417
9,565
33
Tucson; Arizona
520,116
524,295
4,179
34
Fresno; California
494,665
505,882
11,217
35
Sacramento; California
466,488
475,516
9,028
36
Long Beach; California
462,257
467,892
5,635
37
Kansas ; Missouri
459,787
464,310
4,523
38
Mesa; Arizona
439,041
452,084
13,043
39
Virginia Beach; Virginia
437,994
447,021
9,027
40
Atlanta; Georgia
420,003
443,775
23,772
41
Colorado Springs; Colorado
416,427
431,834
15,407
42
Raleigh; North Carolina
403,892
423,179
19,287
43
Omaha; Nebraska
408,958
421,570
12,612
44
Miami; Florida
399,457
413,892
14,435
45
Oakland; California
390,724
400,740
10,016
46
Tulsa; Oklahoma
391,906
393,987
2,081
47
Minneapolis; Minnesota
382,578
392,880
10,302
48
Cleveland; Ohio
396,815
390,928
-5,887
49
Wichita; Kansas
382,368
385,577
3,209
50
Arlington; Texas
365,438
375,600
10,162
51
New Orleans; Louisiana
343,829
369,250
25,421
52
Bakersfield; California
347,483
358,597
11,114
53
Tampa; Florida
335,709
347,645
11,936
54
Honolulu; Hawaii
337,256
345,610
8,354
55
Anaheim; California
336,265
343,248
6,983
56
Aurora; Colorado
325,078
339,030
13,952
57
Santa Ana; California
324,528
330,920
6,392
58
St. Louis; Missouri
319,294
318,172
-1,122
59
Riverside; California
303,871
313,673
9,802
60
Corpus Christi; Texas
305,215
312,195
6,980
61
Pittsburgh; Pennsylvania
305,704
306,211
507
62
Lexington-Fayette; Kentucky
295,803
305,489
9,686
63
Anchorage municipality, Alaska
291,826
298,610
6,784
64
Stockton; California
291,707
297,984
6,277
65
Cincinnati; Ohio
296,943
296,550
-393
66
St. Paul; Minnesota
285,068
290,770
5,702
67
Toledo; Ohio
287,208
284,012
-3,196
68
Newark; New Jersey
277,140
277,727
587
69
Greensboro; North Carolina
269,666
277,080
7,414
70
Plano; Texas
259,841
272,068
12,227
71
Henderson; Nevada
257,729
265,679
7,950
72
Lincoln; Nebraska
258,379
265,404
7,025
73
Buffalo; New York
261,310
259,384
-1,926
74
Fort Wayne; Indiana
253,691
254,555
864
75
Jersey ; New Jersey
247,597
254,441
6,844
76
Chula Vista; California
243,916
252,422
8,506
77
Orlando; Florida
238,300
249,562
11,262
78
St. Petersburg; Florida
244,769
246,541
1,772
79
Norfolk; Virginia
242,803
245,782
2,979
80
Chandler; Arizona
236,123
245,628
9,505
81
Laredo; Texas
236,091
244,731
8,640
82
Madison; Wisconsin
233,209
240,323
7,114
83
Durham; North Carolina
228,330
239,358
11,028
84
Lubbock; Texas
229,573
236,065
6,492
85
Winston-Salem; North Carolina
229,617
234,349
4,732
86
Garland; Texas
226,876
233,564
6,688
87
Glendale; Arizona
226,721
232,143
5,422
88
Hialeah; Florida
224,669
231,941
7,272
89
Reno; Nevada
225,221
231,027
5,806
90
Baton Rouge; Louisiana
229,493
230,058
565
91
Irvine; California
212,375
229,985
17,610
92
Chesapeake; Virginia
222,209
228,417
6,208
93
Irving; Texas
216,290
225,427
9,137
94
Scottsdale; Arizona
217,385
223,514
6,129
95
North Las Vegas; Nevada
216,961
223,491
6,530
96
Fremont; California
214,089
221,986
7,897
97
Gilbert town, Arizona
208,453
221,140
12,687
98
San Bernardino; California
209,924
213,295
3,371
99
Boise; Idaho
205,671
212,303
6,632
100
Birmingham; Alabama
212,237
212,038
-199
Source: US Census Bureau

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Disagree based on population. I don't think there are enough people for teams in some of those venues.

If Oklahoma (3.9M) and Utah (2.9M) can support an NFL team, then how can you justify that California (38.8M) and Texas (27M) couldn't also support more teams?

If Oklahoma can support 1 team, then California can support 10 teams.

But you have distance too.. That's one knock against Florida/Cali/Texas maybe. Would a new team be creating new home team fans? Or would you just be poaching existing fans from other teams?

Not sure, as I think San Antonio would be a fine choice to be honest.

But say Sacramento, or another Chicago team. You could say that their market area would be better, but where Salt Lake City would be gaining a million home team fans, would Sacramento just be taking already existing SF/Oak fans?

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I can see Vegas being tailor made for the Raiders. For those saying Portland. I just cant see a team making it in Portland. I could see San Antonio though. Don't know enough about Oklahoma City but geographically would make sense for a team.

 

[broncosmitty]

Rank
City; State
2010 population
2012 population
Growth / Decline
1
New York City; New York
8,175,133
8,336,697
161,564
2
Los Angeles; California
3,792,621
3,857,799
65,178
3
Chicago; Illinois
2,695,598
2,714,856
19,258
4
Houston; Texas
2,099,451
2,160,821
61,370
5
Philadelphia; Pennsylvania
1,526,006
1,547,607
21,601
6
Phoenix; Arizona
1,445,632
1,488,750
43,118
7
San Antonio; Texas
1,327,407
1,382,951
55,544
8
San Diego; California
1,307,402
1,338,348
30,946
9
Dallas; Texas
1,197,816
1,241,162
43,346
10
San Jose; California
945,942
982,765
36,823
11
Austin; Texas
790,390
842,592
52,202
12
Jacksonville; Florida
821,784
836,507
14,723
13
Indianapolis; Indiana
820,445
834,852
14,407
14
San Francisco; California
805,235
825,863
20,628
15
Columbus; Ohio
787,033
809,798
22,765
16
Fort Worth; Texas
741,206
777,992
36,786
17
Charlotte; North Carolina
731,424
775,202
43,778
18
Detroit; Michigan
713,777
701,475
-12,302
19
El Paso; Texas
649,121
672,538
23,417
20
Memphis; Tennessee
646,889
655,155
8,266
21
Boston; Massachusetts
617,594
636,479
18,885
22
Seattle; Washington
608,660
634,535
25,875
23
Denver; Colorado
600,158
634,265
34,107
24
Washington; DC
601,723
632,323
30,600
25
Nashville-Davidson; Tennessee
601,222
624,496
23,274
26
Baltimore; Maryland
620,961
621,342
381
27
Louisville/Jefferson; Kentucky
597,337
605,110
7,773
28
Portland; Oregon
583,776
603,106
19,330
29
Oklahoma ; Oklahoma
579,999
599,199
19,200
30
Milwaukee; Wisconsin
594,833
598,916
4,083
31
Las Vegas; Nevada
583,756
596,424
12,668
32
Albuquerque; New Mexico
545,852
555,417
9,565
33
Tucson; Arizona
520,116
524,295
4,179
34
Fresno; California
494,665
505,882
11,217
35
Sacramento; California
466,488
475,516
9,028
36
Long Beach; California
462,257
467,892
5,635
37
Kansas ; Missouri
459,787
464,310
4,523
38
Mesa; Arizona
439,041
452,084
13,043
39
Virginia Beach; Virginia
437,994
447,021
9,027
40
Atlanta; Georgia
420,003
443,775
23,772
41
Colorado Springs; Colorado
416,427
431,834
15,407
42
Raleigh; North Carolina
403,892
423,179
19,287
43
Omaha; Nebraska
408,958
421,570
12,612
44
Miami; Florida
399,457
413,892
14,435
45
Oakland; California
390,724
400,740
10,016
46
Tulsa; Oklahoma
391,906
393,987
2,081
47
Minneapolis; Minnesota
382,578
392,880
10,302
48
Cleveland; Ohio
396,815
390,928
-5,887
49
Wichita; Kansas
382,368
385,577
3,209
50
Arlington; Texas
365,438
375,600
10,162
51
New Orleans; Louisiana
343,829
369,250
25,421
52
Bakersfield; California
347,483
358,597
11,114
53
Tampa; Florida
335,709
347,645
11,936
54
Honolulu; Hawaii
337,256
345,610
8,354
55
Anaheim; California
336,265
343,248
6,983
56
Aurora; Colorado
325,078
339,030
13,952
57
Santa Ana; California
324,528
330,920
6,392
58
St. Louis; Missouri
319,294
318,172
-1,122
59
Riverside; California
303,871
313,673
9,802
60
Corpus Christi; Texas
305,215
312,195
6,980
61
Pittsburgh; Pennsylvania
305,704
306,211
507
62
Lexington-Fayette; Kentucky
295,803
305,489
9,686
63
Anchorage municipality, Alaska
291,826
298,610
6,784
64
Stockton; California
291,707
297,984
6,277
65
Cincinnati; Ohio
296,943
296,550
-393
66
St. Paul; Minnesota
285,068
290,770
5,702
67
Toledo; Ohio
287,208
284,012
-3,196
68
Newark; New Jersey
277,140
277,727
587
69
Greensboro; North Carolina
269,666
277,080
7,414
70
Plano; Texas
259,841
272,068
12,227
71
Henderson; Nevada
257,729
265,679
7,950
72
Lincoln; Nebraska
258,379
265,404
7,025
73
Buffalo; New York
261,310
259,384
-1,926
74
Fort Wayne; Indiana
253,691
254,555
864
75
Jersey ; New Jersey
247,597
254,441
6,844
76
Chula Vista; California
243,916
252,422
8,506
77
Orlando; Florida
238,300
249,562
11,262
78
St. Petersburg; Florida
244,769
246,541
1,772
79
Norfolk; Virginia
242,803
245,782
2,979
80
Chandler; Arizona
236,123
245,628
9,505
81
Laredo; Texas
236,091
244,731
8,640
82
Madison; Wisconsin
233,209
240,323
7,114
83
Durham; North Carolina
228,330
239,358
11,028
84
Lubbock; Texas
229,573
236,065
6,492
85
Winston-Salem; North Carolina
229,617
234,349
4,732
86
Garland; Texas
226,876
233,564
6,688
87
Glendale; Arizona
226,721
232,143
5,422
88
Hialeah; Florida
224,669
231,941
7,272
89
Reno; Nevada
225,221
231,027
5,806
90
Baton Rouge; Louisiana
229,493
230,058
565
91
Irvine; California
212,375
229,985
17,610
92
Chesapeake; Virginia
222,209
228,417
6,208
93
Irving; Texas
216,290
225,427
9,137
94
Scottsdale; Arizona
217,385
223,514
6,129
95
North Las Vegas; Nevada
216,961
223,491
6,530
96
Fremont; California
214,089
221,986
7,897
97
Gilbert town, Arizona
208,453
221,140
12,687
98
San Bernardino; California
209,924
213,295
3,371
99
Boise; Idaho
205,671
212,303
6,632
100
Birmingham; Alabama
212,237
212,038
-199
Source: US Census Bureau

City proper is pretty meaningless.

 

[BigKen]

City proper is pretty meaningless.

Exactly. I would have to guess that the NFL has studied this stuff to exhaustion and pretty much know where they can make the most money. Hence, a bunch of yahoos like us even thinking about it is a waste of time. I just thought that a list of the 50 biggest cities would give a pause to think about the NFL cities with teams already and the areas that are larger and don't. The best "for instance" is San Antonio.

 

[wood20ks]

Toronto shouldn't happen.

That's Buffalos territory. And the Bills don't need to move there.

I like the games in London tbh. Not sure they need to have a team of their own though. It's a sideshow gimmick there. The UK will never really care about American Football imo.

Id say Saint Louis.

Hate the Vegas option, slope is too slippery for my liking.

I say STL too..........I`ve been to 4 games there and the city seemed to have embraced the team.so I`m not exactly sure why they moved.

 

[wood20ks]

I could see a team in Canada......But not mexico(yuk!) or London.

If they stuck a team in London,what would suck for travel is the team in London and the division teams they`d be with.
The team in London would be traveling to the states every other weekend and the teams in their division would have to look forward to traveling to the UK every year..........

Not only would the players want out of London cause of all the traveling,but I`m sure the playersin the London division may want out of their respective division too.

Its one thing to pick a couple of teams per season to travel there,but its different to have it set up as a full fledged team..........Horrible idea.

 

[Old Lion]

Its one of those 'theory vs reality' things. In theory, STL would easily support an NFL team especially since they have a workable arena, a very willing government, and ideas to throw more money into the ring. The problem is the two teams that left both fractured the city to the point where most people have kind of a 'f*ck the NFL and their greedy owners' mentality.

NFL should have never let the Cardinals go to AZ. SHould have kept them in Stl and made an expansion team in AZor wait for SD to move there.

As far as international, I am fine with creating another world league that plays a shorter season just in the spring. That will fill the void of no football March-June

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Vegas hands down the front runner. I'd love to have a team I routed for being in Vegas. What better excuse to go watch a game.
Not sure if Albuquerque could sustain an NFL team? But what's wrong with red or green sauce? Another place to visit with good food.

 

[Uhsplit]

Portland

 

[Clayton]

If the rams were ever good, it would be a different story. I bet if the rams had a winning team, they'd still be in stl.

This is not true. Kroenke bought the team to make money.

 

[SonnyCID]

What? No. Just because your population is bigger, doesn't mean you're a bigger market. Mexico City's fandom of football won't sniff the ass of football passion in any American City, let alone NYC.

Is Jacksonville a bigger market than Boston? Just because they have a larger population? Hell no

A markets population isn't defined by the amount of people in the city proper, it's the whole metropolis that makes up the market. Boston and the surrounding areas have a population of 4.8 million, Jacksonville and the surrounding areas have a population of 1.4 million.

Mexico City would have no problem supporting a team as well as the small market teams in the US because American football is actually popular in Mexico. Mexican college football is more popular on tv than Mexican college soccer. There are 30 million NFL fans in Mexico, 10 million who could be considered die hard fans of particular teams. And because of the limitations of broadcasting, I'd say a good majority of those people are in Mexico City.

Now the political and geographic logistics are what would keep a franchise from ever forming there.

 

[obxyankeefan]

San Antonio
Las Vegas
Richmond/Va Beach

For a number of years this was the highest TV market area without a major professional sports team. The problem is the SE Tidewater area is split into 5 cities and all of the mayors refuse to share any of the proceeds with the other four cities.

 

[Scapegoat]

OKC can't support another pro team.

 

[Iggloo]

Texas could totally accommodate another team actually in the Austin/San Antonio region. People don't realize how big those cities are becoming. Austin is bigger than San Francisco now.