When will Wiggy next post?

[trojanfan12]

Someone else originally posted it was a goal tend by rule.
I never agreed or suggested it was, only questioned it..
Then I said it was a reviewable play.

To me it looked like a good block at the time.

I posted the rule and by rule it was a goaltend when Lebron pinned the ball briefly against the backboard. It happened too fast for the refs to catch it, but there are pictures that show it. Definitely reviewable, but it was so fast that I don't think the Warriors caught it...at least I don't remember them complaining.

 

[gordontrue]

I posted the rule and by rule it was a goaltend when Lebron pinned the ball briefly against the backboard. It happened too fast for the refs to catch it, but there are pictures that show it. Definitely reviewable, but it was so fast that I don't think the Warriors caught it...at least I don't remember them complaining.

Some people thought it might be a goaltend because of this part of the rule...

Rule No. 11, Section I, e. RULE NO. 11—BASKET INTERFERENCE—GOALTENDING Section I—A Player Shall Not: e. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard after it has been released. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)

But those 3 elements did not happen simultaneously. LeBron made contact with the ball before it hit the glass.

From the L2M report for Game 7: "James (CLE) makes contact with the ball and brings it to the glass"

 

[trojanfan12]

But those 3 elements did not happen simultaneously, because LeBron made contact with the ball before it hit the glass.

Actually, someone posted a picture earlier that showed hand, ball and backboard. He made contact with the ball before it hit the glass, but he briefly pins it against the glass which is considered a goaltend. Like I said, it happened fast and no one caught it. The Warriors didn't even complain about it.

Really doesn't matter anyway. It's not why the Warriors lost. You have 3 chances to win 1 game for a championship and lose all 3, you didn't deserve to win.

 

[gordontrue]

He made contact with the ball before it hit the glass

Exactly. Which is why it isn't a goaltend. For an illegal trap to occur... the ball, backboard, and hand have to meet simultaneously. It doesn't matter if the 3 meet up after the Ball and Hand have already met.

Which is exactly what the league said in the L2M report after the game.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

You know someone is butthurt when they say that is a goatend. It was clear he hit the ball first before he pinned it against the glass. It was 100% a clean block, but thanks for your opinion.

You think Trojan is butt hurt because he posted a rule and a photo, or isn't entitled to his opinion?

Isn't that what this forum is SUPPOSED to be about?

 

[trojanfan12]

Exactly. Which is why it isn't a goaltend. For an illegal trap to occur... the ball, backboard, and hand have to meet simultaneously. It doesn't matter if the 3 meet up after the Ball and Hand have already met.

Which is exactly what the league said in the L2M report after the game.

The rule doesn't say anything about whether or not touching the ball before it hits the glass it simply says

A Player Shall Not: e. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard after it has been released. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)

The ball wasn't batted against the glass, there was simultaneous touching of hand, ball and glass after the ball was released.

 

[gordontrue]

The rule doesn't say anything about whether or not touching the ball before it hits the glass it simply says

A Player Shall Not: e. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard after it has been released. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)

The ball wasn't batted against the glass, there was simultaneous touching of hand, ball and glass after the ball was released.

You just agreed that his hand contacted the ball before the ball contacted the glass. An illegal trap means that the glass, the hand, and the ball all contact each other at the same time.

"The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time"

Like the league said in the L2M report... "James (CLE) makes contact with the ball and brings it to the glass".

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

You think Trojan is butt hurt because he posted a rule and a photo, or isn't entitled to his opinion?

Isn't that what this forum is SUPPOSED to be about?

Everybody that doesn't praise the cavs to the gods and doesn't have a tattoo of lebron on their ass is apparently a hater and butt hurt!

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

he is literally the only person i have heard that from ANYWHERE....not even Golden State fans are so butt-hurt

I think "he" has warned you several times to quit making shit up.

 

[trojanfan12]

You just agreed that his hand contacted the ball before the ball contacted the glass. An illegal trap means that the glass, the hand, and the ball all contact each other at the same time.

"The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time"

They did occur at the same time. There are pictures that show it. Lebron blocked the shot before it touched the glass, but he also pinned it against the glass, by rule...that's a goaltend. It doesn't matter that he touched the ball before it hit the glass, there was still simultaneous contact with the ball, hand and glass.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You just agreed that his hand contacted the ball before the ball contacted the glass. An illegal trap means that the glass, the hand, and the ball all contact each other at the same time.

"The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time"

Like the league said in the L2M report... "James (CLE) makes contact with the ball and brings it to the glass".

I was under the impression that as long as he hits the ball before it hits the back board- he is good to go- which is what happened - as the video shows. Is that not the case?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

They did occur at the same time. There are pictures that show it. Lebron blocked the shot before it touched the glass, but he also pinned it against the glass, by rule...that's a goaltend. It doesn't matter that he touched the ball before it hit the glass, there was still simultaneous contact with the ball, hand and glass.

After reading the rule and yours and Gordo's interpretations of it, I was on the fence and probably leaning a little toward your side. That NBA Last Two Minute Report that states it was a "Correct Non-Call" validates what Gordon is saying.

Are you suggesting that in this case you have a better understanding of the NBA's rules than the NBA does?

 

[gordontrue]

I was under the impression that as long as he hits the ball before it hits the back board- he is good to go- which is what happened - as the video shows. Is that not the case?

Exactly.

If you touch the ball before it touches the backboard.... it doesn't matter if you trap it.

- Touch the ball before it touches the backboard - good to go
- Touch the ball at the same time it touches the backboard - trap, which is a goaltend
- Touch the ball after it touches the backboard - obviously a goaltend

 

[trojanfan12]

After reading the rule and yours and Gordo's interpretation of it, I was on the fence and probably leaning a little toward your side. That NBA Last Two Minute Report that states it was a "Correct Non-Call" validates what Gordon is saying.

Are you suggesting that in this case you have a better understanding of the NBA's rules than the NBA does?

It's not as if the NBA hasn't gotten it wrong before. I'm just pointing out that the rule doesn't differentiate between whether or not the ball is touched before it hits the glass. It simply says all 3 happening simultaneously, which did happen.

Technically, it's a goaltend, but it's also one that never gets called. Kind of like travelling. Anything over 2 steps before shooting is technically travelling, but how often do you see it called when a guy takes 2.5-3 steps before shooting? About the only time you see it called is when a guy shuffles his feet before a move or moves his pivot foot.

 

[trojanfan12]

If you touch the ball before it touches the backboard.... it doesn't matter if you trap it.

That's not what the rule says.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I was under the impression that as long as he hits the ball before it hits the back board- he is good to go- which is what happened - as the video shows. Is that not the case?

That's also what I thought .

 

[gordontrue]

They did occur at the same time. There are pictures that show it. Lebron blocked the shot before it touched the glass, but he also pinned it against the glass, by rule...that's a goaltend. It doesn't matter that he touched the ball before it hit the glass, there was still simultaneous contact with the ball, hand and glass.

A picture can show all 3 touching at the same time... BUT if two of them were already touching before the 3rd joined in... its not a trap.

You need to see video, not a picutre... like this one.

If a player brings the ball to the glass in a trap... its legal. That's how I read the rule and that's exactly how the NBA explained the play.

 

[trojanfan12]

I was under the impression that as long as he hits the ball before it hits the back board- he is good to go- which is what happened - as the video shows. Is that not the case?

I thought the same thing until I read the rule and that's how it's generally interpreted. The rule doesn't appear to differentiate that though. Either way, it's not something that's ever going to be called.

 

[trojanfan12]

If a player brings the ball to the glass in a trap... its legal.

Nowhere in the rule does it differentiate that:

A Player Shall Not: e. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard after it has been released. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)

 

[gordontrue]

That's not what the rule says.

"the hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time"

If any 1 or 2 of those 3 elements occur before the others.... it is not a trap.


The whole purpose of this trap rule is to account for a tie. We all know if it hits the backboard first its a goaltend. If its a tie... its a trap... and a goaltend.