What Will A New HC Mean to Some of Our Veteran Players?

[PolarVortex]

Three names that stand out to me: Bobby Wagner, Tyler Lockett, Geno Smith
I don't the contract status of these guys nor their salary cap hit, as well as some of you in here.

Lockett:
Turns 32 shortly after next season begins
First time in 5 years that he didn't get to 1000 yards.
Lowest yards per game in 6 years.
Injury compromised his stats shown above.
I like Lockett as both a player and a human being, much more than Metcalf. I hope they keep him. I think he still has a couple more 1000 yards seasons left in him. But that depends on who is throwing to him.

Wagner
Turns 34 this summer
Led the NFL in tackles and was 4th in solo tackles.
At age 34 it is hard to imagine him duplicating the year he just had. Nevertheless, I hope he stays with the team. He's an inspirational leader.

Geno:
Turns 34 during the season next year.
I know he signed at 3-year deal prior to the season start this year. But, that hardly means anything.
There have been plenty of threads devoted to Smith as far as what he brings to the table. There is no need to regurgitate all that shit here. I'm just curious about what you all think of his status with the team going forward.

Other vets?
Feel free to add to the list.

 

[JMR]

I'll paste below what I posted in the year-end thread. Bobby is a free agent, so that is as up in the air as it gets with new leadership in store that may not have any history with him like Pete. Obviously different if Dan Quinn is the hire.

Salary cap stuff is easy to look up on a couple different sites: overthecap and spotrac. Add a dot com and away you go.

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Bring these guys back, but gotta re-structure for it to make sense:

• Tyler Lockett. He's still a productive player, but I think he's showing signs of slowing down. He had 0 plays of 40+ yards this year and didn't seem to be as involved down the stretch. JSN is on a trajectory to take over the WR2 role soon enough, and TL is just not good enough at this point in his career to justify $27M of cap space. I just cannot see the team gulping down more than $50M of cap space on 2 WRs.
• Geno Smith. I don't think he's worth a $31M cap hit, but we also just don't have a viable alternative in hand with Drew Lock scheduled to be a UFA. His numbers were down from last year, but he was actually better in crunch time this season. Spread some of that money around to bring down the '24 cap hit, and it would be worth buying 1 more year to find the next guy (to include allowing a '24 draftee to learn on the bench for a year). 2/15 is probably going to tell the story here; $12.7M of his 2024 salary guarantees the following day.
• Dre'Mont Jones. He's good enough to keep around, but he's not good enough to count for $18M of cap.
• Will Dissly. He just can't be here for $10M when he's such a small part of the offense. I suppose he's still a good blocker, but he's never really progressed as a receiver after showing promise in his first couple seasons. Without a massive restructure, he's probably a cap casualty.

Looming free agents to bring back:

• Leonard Williams. A good not great player, but the optics are rough if you don't get more than a half season out of a 2nd round pick traded to bring him here.
• Bobby Wagner. Not the player he once was, but he's still good enough to be effective on 1st and 2nd downs. Also the clear alpha on the defense. Needs help and a load management plan.
• Jordyn Brooks. Clearly not playing at 100% yesterday, but he had a very solid season. If you don't bring him back, you have a massive hole at LB.
• Drew Lock. Quality backup, and right now we don't have a better alternative for QB2. Would he accept a backup role, or does he want to go somewhere else with a better chance to start?
• Damien Lewis. Hasn't really built upon a strong rookie year, but you gotta have OL bodies. And he won't be expensive. I bet he leaves though... SEC guy and originally from Mississippi, probably pining to play closer to home.
• Colby Parkinson or Noah Fant. Pick 1 I guess. Our TE usage faded this year, but both of these guys had their moments. The TE position on the whole was confusing to me this season. It looked like it was taking off last year, then this year it didn't really hold altitude. All the TEs on our roster are just role players.

 

[PolarVortex]

• Colby Parkinson or Noah Fant. Pick 1 I guess. Our TE usage faded this year, but both of these guys had their moments. The TE position on the whole was confusing to me this season. It looked like it was taking off last year, then this year it didn't really hold altitude. All the TEs on our roster are just role players.

The NFL seems to be in a golden era as far as TEs are concerned. Seahawks need to get with the program and find or develop one. I don't see anyone on their roster who can become the next Sam LaPorte or TJ Hockinson. Hell, even Engram stepped up this year.

 

[Anointed One]

Bring these guys back, but gotta re-structure for it to make sense:

• Tyler Lockett. He's still a productive player, but I think he's showing signs of slowing down. He had 0 plays of 40+ yards this year and didn't seem to be as involved down the stretch. JSN is on a trajectory to take over the WR2 role soon enough, and TL is just not good enough at this point in his career to justify $27M of cap space. I just cannot see the team gulping down more than $50M of cap space on 2 WRs.
• Geno Smith. I don't think he's worth a $31M cap hit, but we also just don't have a viable alternative in hand with Drew Lock scheduled to be a UFA. His numbers were down from last year, but he was actually better in crunch time this season. Spread some of that money around to bring down the '24 cap hit, and it would be worth buying 1 more year to find the next guy (to include allowing a '24 draftee to learn on the bench for a year). 2/15 is probably going to tell the story here; $12.7M of his 2024 salary guarantees the following day.
• Dre'Mont Jones. He's good enough to keep around, but he's not good enough to count for $18M of cap.
• Will Dissly. He just can't be here for $10M when he's such a small part of the offense. I suppose he's still a good blocker, but he's never really progressed as a receiver after showing promise in his first couple seasons. Without a massive restructure, he's probably a cap casualty.

• Tyler Lockett: Agreed... We'd need to do a major restructure for me to consider keeping him on the roster... 27million is just way too much at this point of his career... 10 million, maybe at this point... If he doesn't restructure it just would mean that he's ready to move on as well... And in that case, we would just cut him...
• Geno Smith: I'm ready to move on from him... I don't want to pay him 31 million this season... I'd be ok rolling w/ Lock as the starter, if necessary... Give him a 15-20 million, 1 year deal or something along those lines... This is assuming we don't draft one of the top QB's in the first round...
• Dre'Mont Jones: He wasn't worth the 18 million... Too be honest, how often did his name get called this year... Seems like he had no impact in the middle of that defense line this year... Maybe our new HC will know how to use him better in a new system...
• Will Dissly: Definitely need to restructure for sure... I honestly don't think we'd miss him at all if we cut him... Easily replaceable...

Looming free agents to bring back:

• Leonard Williams. A good not great player, but the optics are rough if you don't get more than a half season out of a 2nd round pick traded to bring him here.
• Bobby Wagner. Not the player he once was, but he's still good enough to be effective on 1st and 2nd downs. Also the clear alpha on the defense. Needs help and a load management plan.
• Jordyn Brooks. Clearly not playing at 100% yesterday, but he had a very solid season. If you don't bring him back, you have a massive hole at LB.
• Drew Lock. Quality backup, and right now we don't have a better alternative for QB2. Would he accept a backup role, or does he want to go somewhere else with a better chance to start?
• Damien Lewis. Hasn't really built upon a strong rookie year, but you gotta have OL bodies. And he won't be expensive. I bet he leaves though... SEC guy and originally from Mississippi, probably pining to play closer to home.
• Colby Parkinson or Noah Fant. Pick 1 I guess. Our TE usage faded this year, but both of these guys had their moments. The TE position on the whole was confusing to me this season. It looked like it was taking off last year, then this year it didn't really hold altitude. All the TEs on our roster are just role players.

• Leonard Williams: I want to bring him back... He played well for the most part but I don't feel like he fit our scheme that well...
• Colby/Noah: I would like to bring both back and have use release Dissly

 

[JMR]

• Tyler Lockett: Agreed... We'd need to do a major restructure for me to consider keeping him on the roster... 27million is just way too much at this point of his career... 10 million, maybe at this point... If he doesn't restructure it just would mean that he's ready to move on as well... And in that case, we would just cut him...

With Pete gone, some of these vets like TL might be ready to change scenery. Lockett is still "good" but not what he was even a year ago -- zero plays of 40+ yards this season. If the next HC is an elevated young coordinator, older players might not be that jazzed about going through those growing pains. Tyler is from Texas and went to college in Kansas, so I would assume he would be ok with finishing out his career somewhere close to there. The Chiefs sure could use a more reliable pass catcher. Then again, I also know he's now a licensed Realtor in WA, so he may just say screw it and do a complete career pivot whenever his time is up with the Hawks.

• Geno Smith: I'm ready to move on from him... I don't want to pay him 31 million this season... I'd be ok rolling w/ Lock as the starter, if necessary... Give him a 15-20 million, 1 year deal or something along those lines... This is assuming we don't draft one of the top QB's in the first round...

I think we probably all would agree Geno's future is tied closely to who comes in as the HC. In my opinion, he's more likely to be here for 2024 if it's someone like Vrabel or Quinn -- a defensive-minded hire. They'll want continuity on offense while more of their focus is on redesigning the defense. If Schneider cuts Geno to save $13M of cap space and pays Lock $15M for '24, then you're still spending nearly what you would be if you just had kept Geno, so I'm not sure if that's the route. But hard to say... first domino to fall is the HC hire, then the next is the 2/15 milestone for Geno's salary trigger.

 

[Anointed One]

With Pete gone, some of these vets like TL might be ready to change scenery. Lockett is still "good" but not what he was even a year ago -- zero plays of 40+ yards this season. If the next HC is an elevated young coordinator, older players might not be that jazzed about going through those growing pains. Tyler is from Texas and went to college in Kansas, so I would assume he would be ok with finishing out his career somewhere close to there. The Chiefs sure could use a more reliable pass catcher. Then again, I also know he's now a licensed Realtor in WA, so he may just say screw it and do a complete career pivot whenever his time is up with the Hawks.



I think we probably all would agree Geno's future is tied closely to who comes in as the HC. In my opinion, he's more likely to be here for 2024 if it's someone like Vrabel or Quinn -- a defensive-minded hire. They'll want continuity on offense while more of their focus is on redesigning the defense. If Schneider cuts Geno to save $13M of cap space and pays Lock $15M for '24, then you're still spending nearly what you would be if you just had kept Geno, so I'm not sure if that's the route. But hard to say... first domino to fall is the HC hire, then the next is the 2/15 milestone for Geno's salary trigger.

The thing that scares me is what Vrabel has done w/ his QB position in Tennessee.. Geno is better than what he put on the field so that would scare me a bit... And Geno is exactly the type of QB he'd want to roll w/ with his track record...

 

[MrS]

The thing that scares me is what Vrabel has done w/ his QB position in Tennessee.. Geno is better than what he put on the field so that would scare me a bit... And Geno is exactly the type of QB he'd want to roll w/ with his track record...

if a DC gets hired, its possible schneider picks the QB. so was geno a pete guy or a john guy?

 

[flyerhawk]

if a DC gets hired, its possible schneider picks the QB. so was geno a pete guy or a john guy?

I am sure that Scneider is going to want to take a QB. But I don't think he will take a QB for the sake of taking a QB.

He's also not going to put the team in a worse position next year by getting rid of Geno and replacing him with someone like Lock or some journeyman like Gardner Minshew.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I am sure that Scneider is going to want to take a QB. But I don't think he will take a QB for the sake of taking a QB.

He's also not going to put the team in a worse position next year by getting rid of Geno and replacing him with someone like Lock or some journeyman like Gardner Minshew.

I've been thinking about that some more and I'm not sure that the Seahawks can designate his contract as a post June cut since he has to be released by February 17th which means they only save 13 million ( Sort of a similar situation as RW) so could be they decide to keep him on the roster and cut him next year. Also not knowing who will be available when they pick or if it is possible to move up when the deadline arrives to make that decision. We will know in about a month.

 

[flyerhawk]

I've been thinking about that some more and I'm not sure that the Seahawks can designate his contract as a post June cut since he has to be released by February 17th which means they only save 13 million ( Sort of a similar situation as RW) so could be they decide to keep him on the roster and cut him next year. Also not knowing who will be available when they pick or if it is possible to move up when the deadline arrives to make that decision. We will know in about a month.

Agree with all of this. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to move on from Geno this year. It doesn't save much money, especially when you factor in the price of bringing in a starter. Geno seems pretty popular with the team.


I would be shocked if he isn't cut next year.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Agree with all of this. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to move on from Geno this year. It doesn't save much money, especially when you factor in the price of bringing in a starter. Geno seems pretty popular with the team.


I would be shocked if he isn't cut next year.

Maybe, but for the Bronco's it would of made more sense to wait another year to release RW also, yet it appears they are moving on now.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Lockett, Wagner, Smith could all be back. Smith could be gone if a QB is drafted, but otherwise I think he'll stay. Lockett will require a massive restructure, Wagner may just leave given Carroll is now gone. COULD be back, but I could see all these guys go.

Adams, Diggs, Dissly, Brown, Lock, Reed (as much as this one pains me to see because he played so great but is now broken), Jones (Dre'Mont was a completely dumb signing), Haynes, and Taylor will be gone. I don't even know why Taylor is in the NFL at this point.

I'll be very curious to see what they do with Leonard Williams. Because he came over and played great.

 

[flyerhawk]

Lockett, Wagner, Smith could all be back. Smith could be gone if a QB is drafted, but otherwise I think he'll stay. Lockett will require a massive restructure, Wagner may just leave given Carroll is now gone. COULD be back, but I could see all these guys go.

Adams, Diggs, Dissly, Brown, Lock, Reed (as much as this one pains me to see because he played so great but is now broken), Jones (Dre'Mont was a completely dumb signing), Haynes, and Taylor will be gone. I don't even know why Taylor is in the NFL at this point.

I'll be very curious to see what they do with Leonard Williams. Because he came over and played great.

I would be very surprised to see Reed cut. His play this year easily outpaced his $4,470,000 cap savings. Jones will probably restructure.

 

[flyerhawk]

Maybe, but for the Bronco's it would of made more sense to wait another year to release RW also, yet it appears they are moving on now.

The Broncos would be making a pretty dumb if they actually cut Wilson. Cutting him will incur a 50 million cap hit this year. But if Payton that Wilson is hurting the team, he may have no choice.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I would be very surprised to see Reed cut. His play this year easily outpaced his $4,470,000 cap savings. Jones will probably restructure.

I agree with that, he out played good enough and his pay is little enough to keep around.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The Broncos would be making a pretty dumb if they actually cut Wilson. Cutting him will incur a 50 million cap hit this year. But if Payton that Wilson is hurting the team, he may have no choice.

It is surprising, and I'm sure they will try for a trade but don't see how they bring him back after benching him so they are not on the hook for injury guarantees. So if they can't trade him he'll be released it appears.

 

[flyerhawk]

I agree with that, he out played good enough and his pay is little enough to keep around.

I think that Adams(post-June 1st), Diggs, and Dissly are goners. That's 35 million in cap savings right out of the bat. Lockett hopefully gets restructured. Hopefully save us another 10. Mone will get cut as well. That's 5 million.

 

[flyerhawk]

It is surprising, and I'm sure they will try for a trade but don't see how they bring him back after benching him so they are not on the hook for injury guarantees. So if they can't trade him he'll be released it appears.

Yeah. It's really strange. And, to be honest, I think Payton completely mishandled the situation.

 

[JMR]

Yeah. It's really strange. And, to be honest, I think Payton completely mishandled the situation.

He came off like a total asshole! He started that way in Denver as well, talking smack about how poorly his predecessor did. Absolutely unnecessary and not something good leaders do. My opinion of Payton has been diminished big time with how he's handled business this year. I'm sure Russ won't shed a tear if they cut him loose. If RW ever writes a book about his career, the Denver chapter will be a juicy read.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I been rolling an idea around. Dead money is mostly signing bonus that the players have gotten the cash for upon signing and it's just how you want to spread it around for accounting purposes. So what about just biting the bullet and not fool around with post June releases Just go ahead and cut these under producers:
Geno, Adams, Lockett,Diggs, Dre'Mont, Dissly and Mone. That would be a whooping 85 million in dead money but remember the money has already been paid for the most part and it's just how you want to account for it. Those cut would mean 55 million in cap space in 2024 but it would also save huge amount in 2025 cap space.