what to do with murphy ?

[gkekoa]

Good question redskinsfan. There is no question that Lawerance is the better pass rusher but he plays in a different defense than Murphy does. Lawrence did have 8 sacks this year. As for Long, he did step in this b/c of injury and played LG for us and was average at best. With the drafting of Kojo does speak volumes to me. Now that Scherff is going to be our RG for the next 5 years, Long has to beat out Lavou when he comes back and kojo. It was a reach in the draft to get Long in the 3rd round while the SEC INterior lineman of the year Jackson was still on the board. It thought Van Noy and Attachou were the better pass rushers if we didn't trade with Dallas But Lawereance did not fit in our 3-4 system so I don't think we would of taken him if we stood pat.

In my opinion the Cowboys did not get the worst of this trade b/c as of right now Murphy and Long are just backups. While Lawerance is Arguably Dallas' best pass rusher. If Long beats out Lavou and Kojo for the starting LG position this year then you can be ok with the trade.

KoJo was a fourth rounder and a fourth rounder has no bearing on what people think of that position. Look at KC. Do you really think the decision makers thought RG3 was not going to make it? KC was BPA and Kojo was at that point.

You keep saying Long was a stretch because you believe it. Again, a professional disagreed with you and you probably would have been all over Jackson in the second. Saying one guy is a stretch over another based on an award is foolish...it is like saying not taking the atheism an winner number is wrong.

 

[deanpet21]

Long was a stretch. He was a reach in the 3rd round. I just said if we were going OG in the 3rd round I would of taken Jackson over Long. Jackson was just a better player and played against better competition. Plus Long had injury issues coming out of college and they still took him over Jackson. That was the Bruce Allen days. Hopefully that doesn't happen again. The picks of Moses and Breeland saved that draft. So I cant be too upset with Allen.

Of course a 4th rounder has bearing on that position. Kojo was a high 4th round pick that has something to do with Long. If they were happy with Long they wouldn't invest such a high pick on OG. Would you be surprised if kojo is our starting LG in 2016? I wouldn't. Also, the drafting of Crowder. Roberts is old and overpaid and we needed a slot guy/punt returner so the Crowder pick made sense.

As far as KC. We needed a backup QB at the time b/c we only had Rex Grossman. Shanyy thank god, saw talent in KC and we took him in the 4th round b/c we needed a backup QB for RG3. Shanny knew KC could run a pro style offense being at Mich. St. Just like Connor Cook this year. If Cook goes in the 3rd or 4th round this year I think its a major steal for someone. Probably even us if Colt doesn't sign back.

 

[gkekoa]

Long was a stretch. He was a reach in the 3rd round. I just said if we were going OG in the 3rd round I would of taken Jackson over Long. Jackson was just a better player and played against better competition. Plus Long had injury issues coming out of college and they still took him over Jackson. That was the Bruce Allen days. Hopefully that doesn't happen again. The picks of Moses and Breeland saved that draft. Of course a 4th rounder has bearing on that position. Kojo was a high 4th round pick that has something to do with Long. If they were happy with Long they wouldn't invest such a high pick on OG. Would you be surprised if kojo is our starting LG in 2016? I wouldn't.

As far as KC. We needed a backup QB at the time b/c we only had Rex Grossman. Shanyy thank god, saw talent in KC and we took him in the 4th round b/c we needed a backup QB for RG3. Shanny knew KC could run a pro style offense being at Mich. St. Just like Connor Cook this year. If Cook goes in the 3rd or 4th round this year I think its a major steal for someone. Probably even us if Colt doesn't sign back.

Hold on. Let me follow your logic. You claim that Long was a stretch and blame Allen for it while praising the same Allen as basically lucky by getting Breeland and Moses?

You say Jackson was the better player because he won an award in a tough conference. Mike Iupati was from Idaho...he was taken before award winners. Your logic is just insanely flawed.

Well Dallas took Chaz Green in the third with what is widely regarded as the best OL in football...does this mean they don't have faith in one of thei lineman?

 

[gkekoa]

Also...go read some about Spencer Long prior to the injury. You can't make claims that Nkemdiche is a steal because of an injury when Long was highly touted before his injury...and we got Long in the third...not 21 overall.

 

[deanpet21]

im praising Allen b/c Moses and Breeland have worked out. Your damn right we got lucky by getting Moses in the 3rd round. Iuapti was a first round pick and was regarded as the best og in the draft. Why are you comparing the two? Jackson was projected as a late 2nd, 3rd round pick. My logic is not flawed. At that point in the 3rd round to take Long over Jackson was high questionable. Two years later Im proved right b/c Jackson is the better player. So how is my logic is flawed?

Nkemidich is a steal at #21 b/c of his talent. He is falling b/c of off field issues just like randy Moss did. I didn't know Nkemdiche was hurt.

 

[gkekoa]

Iupati was from a small school, didn't go against good competition, and didn't win big awards. According to your logic, he had to be a stretch. Oh, you say he was highly rated...I agree because he was taken where he was. Long was rated by our front office and likely others as an early third rounder. Stop listening to people like Mayock...they are not professional talent scouts.

What makes Jackson the better player today? Did their careers end today? We weren't lucky to get Moses where we got him...we got him there because he deserved to be there.

You are right. Nkemdiche wasn't hurt, he had disciplinary problems...point remains. He has question marks aside from talent...injury or off the field issues. Also, go read about Long and his projections before the injury. I guess a better comparison would be Todd Gurley.

 

[deanpet21]

Iupati was a projected 1st round pick by everybody Long was not. Jackson is a better player today b/c he is a starter for Oakland and playing well. The only reason why Long played is b/c of injury. Moses was a good value pick where we got him. I saw projections on him from late first to late 2nd. He went early 3rd. that is value if you ask me. Breeland was projected as a 3rd rounder and we got him early 4th. Once again good value. I think he dropped b/c of off field issues.

just b/c the Skins had Long ranked as an early third rounder doesn't mean the rest of the NFL did. I took issue with the pick two years a go and I am taking issue with the pick now b/c Jackson is better. Plus drafting Kojo in the early 4th supports my point even more.

 

[deanpet21]

Go ahead and poll this message board. Who would they rather have Long or Gabe Jackson. You still didn't answer on who was the 4th OLb.

 

[gkekoa]

Iupati was a projected 1st round pick by everybody Long was not. Jackson is a better player today b/c he is a starter for Oakland and playing well. The only reason why Long played is b/c of injury. Moses was a good value pick where we got him. I saw projections on him from late first to late 2nd. He went early 3rd. that is value if you ask me. Breeland was projected as a 3rd rounder and we got him early 4th. Once again good value. I think he dropped b/c of off field issues.

just b/c the Skins had Long ranked as an early third rounder doesn't mean the rest of the NFL did. I took issue with the pick two years a go and I am taking issue with the pick now b/c Jackson is better. Plus drafting Kojo in the early 4th supports my point even more.

Iupati was taken in the first round...Long was not.

Is he playing well? Serious question. What is it that makes you say he is playing well? Honestly, I haven't watched much of Oakland. I can see KC was sacked 5 times less and Oakland had 6 fewer rushing yards per game.

Those projections were made by TV personalities...not the professionals. If the professionals were to make those projections, that is where he would have been taken.

You keep saying words but you have no proof. Just because web sites have a projection, does not mean the pros believe that. All we can say is the Redskins had Long rated as a high third rounder. You can't make a single claim about another team regarding him being rated lower.

Again, Kojo was taken because he was BPA. I just showed how the best OL in football, Dallas, took a third round OT.

 

[gkekoa]

Go ahead and poll this message board. Who would they rather have Long or Gabe Jackson. You still didn't answer on who was the 4th OLb.

I believe it was Jackson Jeffcoat after the Junior Galette injury.

 

[deanpet21]

I have a buddy who is a Raiders fan who is updating me about Jackson b/c he is busting my balls that we took Long over him. So yes I know a lot about this topic. The proof is who is playing better right now. Dallas has the worst scouting dept in the NFL. Don't need to bring them up.

 

[deanpet21]

Jeffcoat got released mid season. Wasn't it Bates?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Go ahead and poll this message board. Who would they rather have Long or Gabe Jackson. You still didn't answer on who was the 4th OLb.

I'll play, Jackson and it's not even close. Like Murphy IMO Long is serviceable, nothing more. So the picks weren't wasted but that doesn't mean they were good picks to me.

 

[deanpet21]

Exactly DGfan. gk doesn't understand that.

 

[gkekoa]

Exactly DGfan. gk doesn't understand that.

I understand perfectly that these are guys going into year 3. Apparently something you don't get.

 

[deanpet21]

I get it but how is Murphy and Long going to perform in year 3 when they are not even on the field?

 

[gkekoa]

I have a buddy who is a Raiders fan who is updating me about Jackson b/c he is busting my balls that we took Long over him. So yes I know a lot about this topic. The proof is who is playing better right now. Dallas has the worst scouting dept in the NFL. Don't need to bring them up.

So a fan is updating you on Jackson? What about the metric I showed you? Our OL gave up fewer sacks and blocked for a larger number of yards than Oakland. I am not saying Gabe Jackson isn't better than Long right now...I am saying my friend says so and he is a Raiders fan does not cut it.

I am interested why you believe Dallas' scouting department is so bad. They were the favorites to win the east this season and likely would have if not for key injuries. They have a ton of young talent on their team. Do you really believe they are that bad or do you hate them too much to give them some credit or do you not have an answer for the point I made?


Browns took Cameron Ercing at center in the first...when they had Mack.
Bengals took Ogbuehi when they had Whitwirth and Smith.
Broncos took Shane Rey when they had Ware and Miller.
Colts took Phillip Dorsett when they had TY Hilton, Donte Moncrief, and just signed Andre Johnson

That is just the first round. Most teams don't draft for need...they draft BPA...if they are successful.

 

[deanpet21]

Dallas was favorites b/c of Romo. They had no backup QB so they lost the division b/c of it. They are one of the worst run teams in the NFL. IF they had a real GM they would of dominated for years. How does Dallas have a ton of young talent? The only reason why they were contenders is b/c of Romo. We are just as good as them now that we have a QB in place.

Regardless of what my friend says, Jackson is the better player. Even DGfan wanted Jackson.

 

[skinsdad62]

so let me get this straight , long was a reach in round 3 so that invalidates all the data ? come on man

 

[gkekoa]

Dallas was favorites b/c of Romo. They had no backup QB so they lost the division b/c of it. They are one of the worst run teams in the NFL. IF they had a real GM they would of dominated for years. How does Dallas have a ton of young talent? The only reason why they were contenders is b/c of Romo. We are just as good as them now that we have a QB in place.

Regardless of what my friend says, Jackson is the better player. Even DGfan wanted Jackson.

Dallas was the favorite because they have a ton of talent. They lost because they lost Romo, Dez, and Murray. They are poorly run and could use a GM. If you take away the QBs...they are the better team if healthy...on paper. Their young talent includes...

JJ Wilcox (24) who is better than every one of our safeties.
Barry Church (27) who is better than every one of our safeties.
Rolando McClain (27)
Demarcus Lawrence (23)
Greg Hardy (27)
Tyrone Crawford (26)
Dez Bryant (27) best WR of the bunch.
Zack Martin (25) best G of the bunch.
Travis Frederick (25) best center.
Ronald Leary (26)
Tyron Smith (25)


Why do you say Jackson is the better player though? Evidence helps. What makes you believe this? Is it possible lining up beside Leribeus made Long look bad? Being the better player this season...does that make him the better player next season?

Did you ever look anything up on Long?

Spencer Long: Final 2014 NFL Draft Profile
This one says there was a lot of buzz around Long by numerous teams and LaConfora predicted second round.

Long was also second team ALL AP in 2012.

You see...before the injury in his senior season, Long was rated higher than Jackson. It takes time to recover from the injury so you may want to give him a little longer before you write him off.