What QBs are approaching all-time great status?

[NinerSickness]

I am not a Patsys fan but Brady still has to make those throws and you can scream cheater cheater until doomsday,,,,no one but Brady made the throws to the recievers,when they make a camera that can get on the field and play the game maybe then you have a gripe,so don't hand me the crap about cheating,,,,and his numbers are as good now as they ever were,no the video taping doesn't complete any passing attemps,,,,,,you and anyone else who wants to scream cheater can go right ahead,it doesn't change the fact that Brady is the best or at least a top 5 QB of all time

Wow. That's like if the Pats stole the other team's playbook & knew the first 15 plays, and you'd say, "The playbook didn't make those tackles or sacks. You can gripe when a playbook can take down a runningback."

I know Brady is a great QB. BUT HIS LEGACY IS TAINTED! The cheating could have easily been the difference between the 3 points by which he won all 3 SBs.

 

[deep9er]

how do you measure 'all-time great'?


there in lies the various opinions of who is, and who isn't.

 

[Bemular]

Wow. That's like if the Pats stole the other team's playbook & knew the first 15 plays, and you'd say, "The playbook didn't make those tackles or sacks. You can gripe when a playbook can take down a runningback."

I know Brady is a great QB. BUT HIS LEGACY IS TAINTED! The cheating could have easily been the difference between the 3 points by which he won all 3 SBs.

Seems fairly simple to me...

 

[NinerSickness]

how do you measure 'all-time great'?


there in lies the various opinions of who is, and who isn't.

There's no formula, but if a QB who's consistently been a top 3 or 4 QB in the NFL over the course of many years and has had a nice degree of postseason success deserves consideration.

I've never met 2 people who had the same top 5 of all time list, but the only way to really compare their performances (at least in the regular season) is against the average.

 

[deep9er]

There's no formula, but if a QB who's consistently been a top 3 or 4 QB in the NFL over the course of many years and has had a nice degree of postseason success deserves consideration.

I've never met 2 people who had the same top 5 of all time list, but the only way to really compare their performances (at least in the regular season) is against the average.

ok, thats reasonable.

post season success deserves consideration, but thats not necessarily superbowls. to me, superbowl wins are good but made out to be too large a factor.

 

[mem49er]

ok, thats reasonable.

post season success deserves consideration, but thats not necessarily superbowls. to me, superbowl wins are good but made out to be too large a factor.

Yes and no, in that if you don't get one it doesn't make you a failure but winning the SB is the only actual goal every season.

 

[grayghost668]

Wow. That's like if the Pats stole the other team's playbook & knew the first 15 plays, and you'd say, "The playbook didn't make those tackles or sacks. You can gripe when a playbook can take down a runningback."

I know Brady is a great QB. BUT HIS LEGACY IS TAINTED! The cheating could have easily been the difference between the 3 points by which he won all 3 SBs.

everyone can think what they want,,,(so if you really think that the cheating made it possible for Brady to throw the ball,,,,,I didn't see anyone out there helping him),,,,,you go right ahead of all the QBs playing in the last 5 years his numbers are second to none passing yards touchdowns and wins no one has been better than Brady,,I DON'T CARE WHO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT

 

[deep9er]

Yes and no, in that if you don't get one it doesn't make you a failure but winning the SB is the only actual goal every season.

but when you start to evaluate greatness (near greatness for this thread), you immediately start to think longevity, over their careers.

sometimes you have good timing and land with a good organization? if you do, then you have a window of opportunity? for example, how good is Roethlisberger who has won what....three SB's?

there aren't many QB's with the career of Peyton Manning, but just by this thread he's not automatic? is it because he only won one SB?

 

[mem49er]

everyone can think what they want,,,(so if you really think that the cheating made it possible for Brady to throw the ball,,,,,I didn't see anyone out there helping him),,,,,you go right ahead of all the QBs playing in the last 5 years his numbers are second to none passing yards touchdowns and wins no one has been better than Brady,,I DON'T CARE WHO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT

I'm going to ask you a completely unrelated question. If a QB knows the other defense's tendencies and adjustments from their week of preparing for him, can that help him complete a few more passes?

Once again, this has nothing to do with Brady 'cuz no one helped him throw...no one visible at least.

 

[mem49er]

but when you start to evaluate greatness (near greatness for this thread), you immediately start to think longevity, over their careers.

sometimes you have good timing and land with a good organization? if you do, then you have a window of opportunity? for example, how good is Roethlisberger who has won what....three SB's?

there aren't many QB's with the career of Peyton Manning, but just by this thread he's not automatic? is it because he only won one SB?

It's the collection of work. If you have stellar play for 15 years but don't win the SB, you still would be considered. By the same token, if you have a 12 year career and only 7 were stellar, but you win 3 SB's, then you'd be up there, too.

 

[deep9er]

It's the collection of work. If you have stellar play for 15 years but don't win the SB, you still would be considered. By the same token, if you have a 12 year career and only 7 were stellar, but you win 3 SB's, then you'd be up there, too.

i'm not disagreeing entirely, but you seem to be putting too much weight on SB wins? so again, is roethlisgerber one of the first names that came to your mind?

did you 'downgrade' Peyton a notch because he only has one SB win?

anyways, its just opinions so no correct answers.

 

[mem49er]

i'm not disagreeing entirely, but you seem to be putting too much weight on SB wins? so again, is roethlisgerber one of the first names that came to your mind?

did you 'downgrade' Peyton a notch because he only has one SB win?

anyways, its just opinions so no correct answers.

I think Big Ben has been pretty good, but I don't think he's ever had a stretch of stellar play. He has had moments and proven clutch at times (like Eli) but he has a bit of work to do. And yes, I'd have Peyton a notch below Montana because of that. Here's a question, Peyton or Young?

 

[grayghost668]

I'm going to ask you a completely unrelated question. If a QB knows the other defense's tendencies and adjustments from their week of preparing for him, can that help him complete a few more passes?

Once again, this has nothing to do with Brady 'cuz no one helped him throw...no one visible at least.

when the whole mess happened everyone was on that wagon Patsys are cheaters,I am just a little tired of it but there is no real need to argue no one on here will change their way of thinking

just let me remind you that the following year the PATS won every one of their regular season games and went on to th SB only to lose to the Giants,,,if the cheating was that big a factor in their winning games just how did they go 18 straight without a lose,,hmmmmmmmmmmm,,,what about that

 

[mem49er]

when the whole mess happened everyone was on that wagon Patsys are cheaters,I am just a little tired of it but there is no real need to argue no one on here will change their way of thinking

just let me remind you that the following year the PATS won every one of their regular season games and went on to th SB only to lose to the Giants,,,if the cheating was that big a factor in their winning games just how did they go 18 straight without a lose,,hmmmmmmmmmmm,,,what about that

How about you answer my question, first?

 

[deep9er]

I think Big Ben has been pretty good, but I don't think he's ever had a stretch of stellar play. He has had moments and proven clutch at times (like Eli) but he has a bit of work to do. And yes, I'd have Peyton a notch below Montana because of that. Here's a question, Peyton or Young?

i personally feel Young was just about on par with anybody, if not better? i wouldn't even defend Montana against Young for sheer quality. but Young's career was obviously "hampered" by his timing in the USFL, Montana, and maybe being cut short a little at the end. so his number of quality seasons isn't quite as long as you'd want for someone GREAT.

but Young is a hall of famer and Peyton will be, so both are great. to answer your question, i think Peyton put up a better career.

that said, i guess if Peyton continues for too long, he could start to 'taint' his career?

 

[grayghost668]

How about you answer my question, first?

it could but the game still has to be played,are you going to try and make the rest of us believe that say any QB say a Trent Dilfer,Rick Mire or any one of 2 dozen other piss poor QBs that have been in the NFL would have won 1 SB let alone 3 during those years

 

[mem49er]

i personally feel Young was just about on par with anybody, if not better? i wouldn't even defend Montana against Young for sheer quality. but Young's career was obviously "hampered" by his timing in the USFL, Montana, and maybe being cut short a little at the end. so his number of quality seasons isn't quite as long as you'd want for someone GREAT.

but Young is a hall of famer and Peyton will be, so both are great. to answer your question, i think Peyton put up a better career.

that said, i guess if Peyton continues for too long, he could start to 'taint' his career?

I do have a soft spot for Young, I think he and Montana will always be neck and neck for me (ultimately nod to Joe Cool) and I agree circumstance somewhat hampered Young.

The "taint the career" thing is something that I'm not sure I've ever agreed with (not here specifically, just in general). While I don't think guys that are just clinging to roster spots are especially admirable, I don't think it should overshadow otherwise excellent careers. LT (the RB) is the one that comes to me off the top of my head.

 

[Bemular]

Man, I am beginning to understand how the fans of Otto Graham must have felt when Johnny Unitas came along and how fans of Johnny Unitas must have felt when Joe Montana came along - but at least there was a valid argument between those three.

 

[NinerSickness]

I'll always say that Young was the most dangerous QB to ever have a ball in his hands. He's the most efficient QB to ever play (by a good margin), and he was by FAR the best running QB of the elite HOF caliber guys.

That said, Joe Cool: 127+ passer rating in 4 SBs. 12 TDs, 0 INT. Beat Marino & Elway, and won 2 SBs before he ever met Jerry Rice. And he was the best QB in the AFC while a Chief. He's the GOAT. (Plus 2 strike seasons & getting knocked out of the '90 NFC Championship game screwed him).

 

[deep9er]

I do have a soft spot for Young, I think he and Montana will always be neck and neck for me (ultimately nod to Joe Cool) and I agree circumstance somewhat hampered Young.

The "taint the career" thing is something that I'm not sure I've ever agreed with (not here specifically, just in general). While I don't think guys that are just clinging to roster spots are especially admirable, I don't think it should overshadow otherwise excellent careers. LT (the RB) is the one that comes to me off the top of my head.

yeah ok, we fans might still consider them great and only their career stats might become 'tainted'.