Westbrook Dealt for Wall and a 1rst

[Mebert]

No.

Westbrook isn’t a good contract. But his deal could pretty easily be flipped to a wanna be contender with cap space and/or expiring contracts in future seasons.

Wall’s deal is just flat out awful.

This deal marks the end of Houston as a relevant team in the west.

Westbrook deal cut be flipped to a contender, Wall was basically the only contract out there where the Rockets could get something back. Any other trade requires Rockets sending out picks.

 

[Iggloo]

I guess I am grading it on a curve, but I think any deal in which Houston gets rid of Westbrook and gets something back in terms of picks has to be considered a positive.

But maybe I am underestimating how bad the Wall deal might be. I don't like either player at all and agree Wall doesn't fit well with Harden. My understanding is that Houston really wants to move Harden too but is playing hardball with him until it can get picks in return. Fertitta wants to rebuild and possibly even tank.

 

[Mebert]

I guess I am grading it on a curve, but I think any deal in which Houston gets rid of Westbrook and gets something back in terms of picks has to be considered a positive.

But maybe I am underestimating how bad the Wall deal might be. I don't like either player at all and agree Wall doesn't fit well with Harden. My understanding is that Houston really wants to move Harden too but is playing hardball with him until it can get picks in return. Fertitta wants to rebuild and possibly even tank.

You are correct in your initial assessment, Westbrook is undeniably the better player, and by a lot. However, he is looking to force his way out along with Harden. Wall is the only contract out there where you could get a pick back, every other trade you are giving up assets to move Westbrook.

 

[flyerhawk]

This deal may be the first trade in the history of sports that is a lose-lose.

I guess I give the Wizards a slight win because Westbrook at least has played a game in the last 2 years and isn't coming off of a torn achilles which historically is the death of an athletic player's career.

 

[The Q]

This deal may be the first trade in the history of sports that is a lose-lose.

I guess I give the Wizards a slight win because Westbrook at least has played a game in the last 2 years and isn't coming off of a torn achilles which historically is the death of an athletic player's career.

yeah. I see why eveyone did it.

but this could be a deal where it doesn’t work out for anyone.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Living near DC I listened all morning to people's take, the prevailing opinion is getting out of the Wall deal made it a win for Washington. The pick is lottery protected for many years but since they always suck it could become a decent pick some day, but probably not that big of an asset.


The Wiz were a horrible defensive team and with the draft and this trade they may have gotten worse .I was never a big Wall guy, he was absolutely terrible at last possession shots at the end of the half or game. I agree it's kind of a lose/lose for both teams.

 

[flyerhawk]

yeah. I see why eveyone did it.

but this could be a deal where it doesn’t work out for anyone.

It just seems like a deal just to make a deal but no one is going to be any happier in the end.

I get that the Wall deal was plutonium level radioactive and the Westbrook deal wasn't much better. But trading 2 clones of the same player achieves.... what exactly?

I honestly have no idea what the Rockets are even trying to do. At least the Wizards are trying to be competitive this year. I can't imagine that Harden learned of this trade and said "You got rid of a me first slashing point guard with a mercurial personality and replaced him with a..... me first slashing point guard with a mercurial personality? Any update on my trade to the Nets?"

 

[flyerhawk]

Living near DC I listened all morning to people's take, the prevailing opinion is getting out of the Wall deal made it a win for Washington. The pick is lottery protected for many years but since they always suck it could become a decent pick some day, but probably not that big of an asset.


The Wiz were a horrible defensive team and with the draft and this trade they may have gotten worse .I was never a big Wall guy, he was absolutely terrible at last possession shots at the end of the half or game. I agree it's kind of a lose/lose for both teams.

The problem is the Wiz are basically in the same situation they were before the trade. Except they gave up a draft pick. Westbrook has now forced himself off of 2 teams in the last 2 years. He is no better fit with Beal than Wall and likes playing hero ball even more than Wall does.

 

[trojanfan12]

Imo, this trade makes the Wizards what they would be with a healthy John Wall. A 5-8 seed in the East with a 2nd round at best ceiling.

If Wall is healthy, the Rockets are what they were with Westbrook...a 4-8 seed with a 2nd round at best ceiling. If Wall isn't healthy, then they are a 6-8 seed with a 1st round ceiling.

 

[The Q]

Imo, this trade makes the Wizards what they would be with a healthy John Wall. A 5-8 seed in the East with a 2nd round at best ceiling.

If Wall is healthy, the Rockets are what they were with Westbrook...a 4-8 seed with a 2nd round at best ceiling. If Wall isn't healthy, then they are a 6-8 seed with a 1st round ceiling.

if wall isn’t healthy, the rockets are playing ping pong

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

The problem is the Wiz are basically in the same situation they were before the trade. Except they gave up a draft pick. Westbrook has now forced himself off of 2 teams in the last 2 years. He is no better fit with Beal than Wall and likes playing hero ball even more than Wall does.

Agreed. I have no idea how Westbrooks' problems will magically go away now that he's on a crappy team, I wonder how Beal feels. Wall and Beal hated each other but seems like the problems will continue.

 

[flyerhawk]

Agreed. I have no idea how Westbrooks' problems will magically go away now that he's on a crappy team, I wonder how Beal feels. Wall and Beal hated each other but seems like the problems will continue.

Exactly. I get that the Wizards were in a tough spot. No one wanted that Wall contract. But sometimes you are better off just eating your shit sandwich and moving on.

 

[Shanemansj13]

The problem is the Wiz are basically in the same situation they were before the trade. Except they gave up a draft pick. Westbrook has now forced himself off of 2 teams in the last 2 years. He is no better fit with Beal than Wall and likes playing hero ball even more than Wall does.

Cap wise and fit wise, I agree. But Wall coming off an achilles injury and a long one is a huge risk for that price tag. There is no question RW is a much better player and they can compete for a lower seed in the East. The Rockets even with a healthy and rejuvenated Wall could still miss the playoffs. The pick could be good but maybe it isn't...no sure thing so I don't really like including that in the trade value right now. Probably a trade we would revisit in 2-3 years tbh...but as most see it, a lose-lose, slight edge to WASH.

 

[The Q]

Cap wise and fit wise, I agree. But Wall coming off an achilles injury and a long one is a huge risk for that price tag. There is no question RW is a much better player and they can compete for a lower seed in the East. The Rockets even with a healthy and rejuvenated Wall could still miss the playoffs. The pick could be good but maybe it isn't...no sure thing so I don't really like including that in the trade value right now. Probably a trade we would revisit in 2-3 years tbh...but as most see it, a lose-lose, slight edge to WASH.

it probably depends what everyone’s goals are.

if Washington is fancying itself as a contender this is a fail

if the goal was simply to make the playoffs, weatbrooks durability will help them do that.

for Houston, this really depends what their goals are.

it does not make them better this year

 

[Shanemansj13]

it probably depends what everyone’s goals are.

if Washington is fancying itself as a contender this is a fail

if the goal was simply to make the playoffs, weatbrooks durability will help them do that.

for Houston, this really depends what their goals are.

it does not make them better this year

Well we can only go by what has happened recently.

Houston's goals for the last 3-4 years have been championship or bust. Picking up a future 1st is exactly what it is...a future asset that has no relevance on their championship or bust goal year to year. So maybe their goal is to just make the playoffs...moving a big step back with a superstar on your team.

Washington has been a bottom feeder for the last couple years but that does have to do with Wall. 17-18 - 41 games. 18-19 - 32 games. 19-20 - no games. Their best finish in those years was 17-18 with 43 wins and a first round loss but that was also with a better roster. I would think it's to make the playoffs and win a round one matchup but I'm not so sure how realistic that is either. They would have to be high to think a championship is a realistic goal.

 

[The Q]

Well we can only go by what has happened recently.

Houston's goals for the last 3-4 years have been championship or bust. Picking up a future 1st is exactly what it is...a future asset that has no relevance on their championship or bust goal year to year. So maybe their goal is to just make the playoffs...moving a big step back with a superstar on your team.

Washington has been a bottom feeder for the last couple years but that does have to do with Wall. 17-18 - 41 games. 18-19 - 32 games. 19-20 - no games. Their best finish in those years was 17-18 with 43 wins and a first round loss but that was also with a better roster. I would think it's to make the playoffs and win a round one matchup but I'm not so sure how realistic that is either. They would have to be high to think a championship is a realistic goal.

yeah. 25 wins with Westbrook. Not great. It’s maybe a 30 something win team.

 

[flyerhawk]

Cap wise and fit wise, I agree. But Wall coming off an achilles injury and a long one is a huge risk for that price tag. There is no question RW is a much better player and they can compete for a lower seed in the East. The Rockets even with a healthy and rejuvenated Wall could still miss the playoffs. The pick could be good but maybe it isn't...no sure thing so I don't really like including that in the trade value right now. Probably a trade we would revisit in 2-3 years tbh...but as most see it, a lose-lose, slight edge to WASH.

I agree. I started off by saying it was a lose-lose. I guess it's possible that Wash gets a slight win but that seems unlikely. What seems far more likely is that Westbrook will be a problem for the Wizards and piss off Beal who will be playing the role of KD sitting on the perimeter wondering why he was even on the court.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Exactly. I get that the Wizards were in a tough spot. No one wanted that Wall contract. But sometimes you are better off just eating your shit sandwich and moving on.

Well they did get the same contract with a better player in return.

 

[thunderc]

if wall isn’t healthy, the rockets are playing ping pong

And that would be great for the thunder

 

[trojanfan12]

Well they did get the same contract with a better player in return.

Which puts them in the exact same place they would be if Wall were healthy. A lower level playoff team with, at best, a 2nd round ceiling. They'd have been better off keeping Wall, imo. If he is healthy, they have the same team they have now. If he's not, they can be a lottery team and maybe get a really good young player to join Beal.