Well...

[blh7068]

I'm seeing a few different debates here-
blh vs anotheridiot: My 2 cents- AIdiot is right... if they can eliminate those two long runs- the defense does better. Still not perfect, by any means...but better- Win the game better. I can stipulate that if the defense doesn't give up those two BIG runs- Bears win. I think that was his point.

Joey- what you and the idiot arent getting is that its a specious point to begin with. You cant remove what suits your point and call it good. Really, does going back to last season and removing all the big run plays, only to say "if you remove these rushes, youll see the run defense wasnt too bad" Does that really make sense? Like I said, bad rush defense is going to include long runs- there arent enough offensive snaps in a game to chip away and total something like 193 yards with a low YPC. If they were able to get the YPC down closer to 4.0 despite the long runs, then I wouldnt even be debating this. However, on that many rush attempts the average was still 5.8- and that by NFL standards is terrible.

 

[blh7068]

And when we needed a win last season vs a horrible Eagles pass d..........he never shoed up..........

Eagles game??? Nobody showed up for that game. That was a complete failure from top to bottom.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Noon- You seem to be a "defense wins" guy... and if the defense wasn't on the field as much- they wouldn't be "tired" and thus play better. I call Bullshit- I will stand by this notion forever- As a defense if you want to rest- GET OFF THE DAMN FIELD YOURSELF! All you have to do is stop them for 3 plays! Besides- The offense had TOP in the game- had 69 plays... How can you make that argument- I think it's more about you simply not liking Jay and want to blame him. period.

#stirthepot

Ok admittedly I haven't seen the game, but looking at box score, clearly the defense didn't have a problem "getting off the field." Only 4 3rd down conversions and 15 total firsts hardly screams "defense couldn't get off the field."

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

In fact, it seems like buffalo only put together two long scoring drives all game, the one at end of game in ot and middle of first quarter. That's not THAT bad.

 

[anotheridiot]

Joey- what you and the idiot arent getting is that its a specious point to begin with. You cant remove what suits your point and call it good. Really, does going back to last season and removing all the big run plays, only to say "if you remove these rushes, youll see the run defense wasnt too bad" Does that really make sense? Like I said, bad rush defense is going to include long runs- there arent enough offensive snaps in a game to chip away and total something like 193 yards with a low YPC. If they were able to get the YPC down closer to 4.0 despite the long runs, then I wouldnt even be debating this. However, on that many rush attempts the average was still 5.8- and that by NFL standards is terrible.

I get your point, but you are doing the exact same thing to the negative.

All I am saying is you are looking at 2 bad plays out of 33 and saying that all 33 plays were bad. Thats not the glass is half full, the glass had a few drops left. 31/33 (93% of the rushing attempts) were defended well, 7% were not. All we were discussing was if the defense showed signs of improvement. They improved against the run 93% of the time. Last year it seemed the backs walked thru the line and got 8 yards each attempt.

 

[blh7068]

I get your point, but you are doing the exact same thing to the negative.

All I am saying is you are looking at 2 bad plays out of 33 and saying that all 33 plays were bad. Thats not the glass is half full, the glass had a few drops left. 31/33 (93% of the rushing attempts) were defended well, 7% were not. All we were discussing was if the defense showed signs of improvement. They improved against the run 93% of the time. Last year it seemed the backs walked thru the line and got 8 yards each attempt.

How? Its not being selective...including all runs is imperative when the rush attempts is high number. Thats what Ive done. So, youve convinced yourself that all the other plays other than the 2 longest runs means they defended well??? Not at all, IMO. Go back and look at the play by play- youll see there were too many 1st and 2nd down runs that put them in 3rd and short, if not moving the chains altogether. The LB unit combined for 9 solo tackles. They still bite hard on fakes and are getting caught out of position. Either way the end result is the same. Big runs aside, again, there are still too 1st and 2nd many run plays that move the chains, or at a minimum keeps them out of a favorable 3rd down situation. A high # of attempts coupled with a high ypc should be alarming.

 

[anotheridiot]

How? Its not being selective...including all runs is imperative when the rush attempts is high number. Thats what Ive done. So, youve convinced yourself that all the other plays other than the 2 longest runs means they defended well??? Not at all, IMO. Go back and look at the play by play- youll see there were too many 1st and 2nd down runs that put them in 3rd and short, if not moving the chains altogether. The LB unit combined for 9 solo tackles. They still bite hard on fakes and are getting caught out of position. Either way the end result is the same. Big runs aside, again, there are still too 1st and 2nd many run plays that move the chains, or at a minimum keeps them out of a favorable 3rd down situation. A high # of attempts coupled with a high ypc should be alarming.

I can take out the three longest runs and tell you they had a 2.48 YPC average on those 30 plays if that will make you feel better

 

[wood20ks]

Eagles game??? Nobody showed up for that game. That was a complete failure from top to bottom.

Yes the eagles game..........Just cause the defense doesn`t show up,Jay gets a free pass?
Our defense never showed up last year.

He wanted a pay raise.
He`s suppose to be our leader.
He has all kinds of weapons.
He has an o-line.
He has this great qb guru in Trestman.

what more does he need?


its a damn shame that a career back-up qb,out played Jay last season........And with the same team as jay had.

When we needed him most Sunday,what did he do.......pissed right down his leg.

 

[blh7068]

I can take out the three longest runs and tell you they had a 2.48 YPC average on those 30 plays if that will make you feel better

Not really. You said you acknowledge that it doesnt work that way per my last season example. Guess not...

You need to go look at the first and 2nd down 5-10 yards runs that accomplished what I said was problematic- that was at best creating a 3rd and short or moving the chains altogether.

 

[blh7068]

Yes the eagles game..........Just cause the defense doesn`t show up,Jay gets a free pass?
Our defense never showed up last year.

Who said that?? Im pretty sure I said that that was a top to bottom failure. Please tell me how that excludes Jay, let alone gives him a 'free pass'. Top to bottom equates to everyone. Does that help?

 

[anotheridiot]

I think some of us are just looking for a bright side. First offensive drive, bright side. one punt return for 13 yards, 3 no returns, bright side. Apparently there were a shit load of 10 yard runs I missed that even lower the YPC of another shitload of plays, maybe no gains, bright side.

Its not all doom and gloom over a handful of plays. If the play calls were closer to 40/60 with Forte averaging almost 5 per carry, TOP would have been even more in the bears favor and maybe buffalo does not get to 20 to tie the game.

 

[toooverbearing]

I think some of us are just looking for a bright side. First offensive drive, bright side. one punt return for 13 yards, 3 no returns, bright side. Apparently there were a shit load of 10 yard runs I missed that even lower the YPC of another shitload of plays, maybe no gains, bright side.

Its not all doom and gloom over a handful of plays. If the play calls were closer to 40/60 with Forte averaging almost 5 per carry, TOP would have been even more in the bears favor and maybe buffalo does not get to 20 to tie the game.

It's hard to play "what if's" though. First, Jay completed 34/49 of his passes... so a whole bunch of them didn't stop the clock anyway. Also, if we ran more, it's possible that Forte's averaged would have regressed some. The bottom line is, we could have won the game the way we played it. Cutler needs to do anything but turnover the ball in the fourth quarter, or the defense needs to play hero and get a stop in overtime.

Every year there are the games you should win, the games you should lose, the games that got away (should have won but lost) and the games you stole (should have lost but won). This was a game that got away. The team next week has a shot at stealing one to compensate for it. That will be a tall order but the Niners defense didn't exactly shut down the Cowboys as much as they just took advantage of mistakes (our offense is also very talented but mistake prone, so we have to tone them down). They also run the zone read offense very well and we are particularly bad at defending it. We need to solve for X on defense. It's a tall order, but it's possible.

 

[wood20ks]

Who said that?? Im pretty sure I said that that was a top to bottom failure. Please tell me how that excludes Jay, let alone gives him a 'free pass'. Top to bottom equates to everyone. Does that help?

You asked abut the eagles game..........I told you.

We all know how terrible our defense was last seasn. no denying that.The eagles tore us a new ass on that side of the ball.
Foles,mccoy and co was expected to score points.
We all figured the great Jay and co. should have scored a ton of points ouselves. And like almost always,jay proved nothing again.and this against the last place defense vs the pass.

So when you say the whole team,sorry,that horrible defense does not play offense.(which is/was our strong suit)

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Yes the eagles game..........Just cause the defense doesn`t show up,Jay gets a free pass?
Our defense never showed up last year.

He wanted a pay raise. (EVER Player wants a raise)
He`s suppose to be our leader. (he is)
He has all kinds of weapons. (Now, yep... great and used them- to the tune of 349 yards and 2 TD's)
He has an o-line. (Now... and now two are injured)
He has this great qb guru in Trestman. (True- and he's been proven- just look at McCowns Contract)
what more does he need?
its a damn shame that a career back-up qb,out played Jay last season........And with the same team as jay had.
When we needed him most Sunday,what did he do.......pissed right down his leg. (Led them to a game tying FG in the 4th QRT)

Just wondering- What do you want to happen with the cutler bashing?
If he plays poorly that's one thing- we can talk about that... BUT what is the point in bringing up last years games? He's been signed- he'll be here at least 2 more years... he will be paid at least $54 million... This isn't Rex vs Orton, where they might sign one over the other... This is it- He's the BEARS guy- I suggest you do a couple things-

• accept that Jay Cutler is the QB of the Bears. (you don't have to like him- just accept it)
• Understand that isn't going to change- for at least 2 more years.
• and posting writing more about it isn't going to do anything. Please stop.

If you want to make a point about this pass or this decision throughout the course of the season, great- No need to bring up last year.

 

[anotheridiot]

Just wondering- What do you want to happen with the cutler bashing?
If he plays poorly that's one thing- we can talk about that... BUT what is the point in bringing up last years games? He's been signed- he'll be here at least 2 more years... he will be paid at least $54 million... This isn't Rex vs Orton, where they might sign one over the other... This is it- He's the BEARS guy- I suggest you do a couple things-

• accept that Jay Cutler is the QB of the Bears. (you don't have to like him- just accept it)
• Understand that isn't going to change- for at least 2 more years.
• and posting writing more about it isn't going to do anything. Please stop.

If you want to make a point about this pass or this decision throughout the course of the season, great- No need to bring up last year.

I know it wasnt directed at me, but the only reason I brought up last year was to say even with an offensive line that played all season together, it was the same exact snap count. I was expecting a response of "there were two new offensive linemen in the game" for the Jay jocks, I mean supporters, to defend simplifying the snap count.

Watch this week if they have the silent count expecting crowd noise. Not much different. Left guard taps the center, one second later the ball is snapped. Can they wait two seconds, three seconds and keep the defense off balance?

The Mike linebacker can also just stand there counting down the play clock and give their d line an advantage.

 

[blh7068]

You asked abut the eagles game..........I told you.

We all know how terrible our defense was last seasn. no denying that.The eagles tore us a new ass on that side of the ball.
Foles,mccoy and co was expected to score points.
We all figured the great Jay and co. should have scored a ton of points ouselves. And like almost always,jay proved nothing again.and this against the last place defense vs the pass.

So when you say the whole team,sorry,that horrible defense does not play offense.(which is/was our strong suit)

Told me what? That you can conveniently blame Jay in a 54-11 loss, when its very clear everyone- that includes offense/defense/coaches- is accountable when things go south like that. You do know it was 14-0 after a Forte fumble and a poor punt, right? However you insist on pointing the finger at one person in a game that goes like that.

 

[blh7068]

I think some of us are just looking for a bright side. First offensive drive, bright side. one punt return for 13 yards, 3 no returns, bright side. Apparently there were a shit load of 10 yard runs I missed that even lower the YPC of another shitload of plays, maybe no gains, bright side.

Its not all doom and gloom over a handful of plays. If the play calls were closer to 40/60 with Forte averaging almost 5 per carry, TOP would have been even more in the bears favor and maybe buffalo does not get to 20 to tie the game.

I want to believe that in the end youll be right- trust me. But one game this year harkened back to much of the problem that was observed last season. They need to fix it in a hurry- SF coming up. I hope Im wrong, but that could get ugly real quick...

 

[beardown07]

Bears play like they did Sunday, the rest the season, and they may not win a game till mid-November.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

I don't get the negativity. Bears def played much better then last year. I don't care what the stats say. The offense had a off game and hung a average def out to dry more then a few times. I have no fear the offense will clean things up. I also feel like the defense will get better as they play a few games together. This def looks avg, last year we begged for average.

 

[beardown07]

I don't get the negativity. Bears def played much better then last year. I don't care what the stats say. The offense had a off game and hung a average def out to dry more then a few times. I have no fear the offense will clean things up. I also feel like the defense will get better as they play a few games together. This def looks avg, last year we looked much worse.

I thought they looked a little better on D too, and the O certainly didn't do em' any favors, but the negativity is easy to understand noon...this is not a rebuild-year, where we can look for the positives amongst the gloom and know that there's a bright future...this is a win-now, year. The expectations were lofty and to lay an egg against a team that hasn't been to the playoffs in 14 years, at home, for the season-opener, coupled with the road that lies ahead...I think it should be clear why allot of fans are doom-and-gloom.