Welcome Joe Flacco

[Mingo]

One of the things that Fangio had success with on defense - were reclamation projects. Flacco would certainly be that, but it was guys like Flacco who made Major Leagues into such a good movie.

 

[Broncosr0k]

Hey, Happy Valentine's Day all.......

Simple question, nit trying to ruffle tails or tail feathers. Rumor up here in New England is that matt Patricia has been talking to Bill Belichick about handing over Matthew Stafford for the Pats #32 in April. This is a rumor and I don't have anything more than the rumor.

Report out yesterday says that Patricia is looking for a first round pick for Stafford.

Do you guys think that JE may have moved just a bit early? I certainly thyinkthat Stafford would be awesome playing for either the Broncos or the Patriots........I know you all have the someone you'd like to see the Broncos get with the #1, is Stafford worth it?

Thanks...............

Stafford for a 1st is not a good deal in my opinion. Doesn't make sense for the patriots to trade for him and if I am rolling the dice with my first round pick I go with a draft pick. Much younger, potentially higher upside, cheaper.

 

[Dr Cyanide 28]

Just a reply all comparing Keenum's stats to Flacco

Joe Flacco is a better fit for what Scangarello wants to run offensively. Denver wants to run a more vertical based passing attack. Keenum is the antithesis of that. His deep balls wobble and are reliant on contested catch monsters to make plays on the ball. Outside of one good season (in one of the most advantageous situations in football) Keenum has been hogwash.

He can't press the ball, he needs to almost exclusively pass in a heavy play action and moving offense to be successful. His stats are inflated by a WTF season in 2017 in which he had the most coveted coach in all of football designing his offense in Pat Shurmur, throwing it up to arguably the best WR duo in football that season (especially in contested catches) in Diggs and Thilen, and got to play in the NFC North in a year where there were two lame duck coaches (Fox replaced by Nagy and Caldwell replaced by Patricia) in a year where Aaron Rodgers didn't play. The NFL was so impressed with how Shurmur mad Keenum not look like a backup he got the most wanted head coach position that season in the Giants.

Now this isn't to say that Flacco is 'good' by any means, but he is a better quarterback than what Keenum is on tape. He isn't as mobile but he can actually push the ball and run an offense that can strike any part of the field. But comparing Flacco and Keenum's stats without assessing the variables at place from opponents, coaching, scheme, and personnel around them, is complete buffoonery and idiotic to say the least.

Don't be a box score scout. Understand the nuance in the game and comparing stats of non-elite QBs is silly when these kind of players are highly dependent on the pieces around them.

 

[Dr Cyanide 28]

and i think case keenum is dogshit fwiw

 

[Mingo]

@Dr Cyanide 28 - is correct (again).

In the last half of the season - teams just sat 8 guys in the box to stuff the Bronco's run game - and dared Keenum to throw over them - he couldn't.

Flacco has a much better arm and much better 3rd down stats.

Go Broncos!

 

[fightinredantz]

Sanders is happy with the Flacco trade as is Chris Harris. Per the article below Sanders is expected to remain with the team for 2019.
Emmanuel Sanders approves of Flacco trade: 'Big move by Elway'

 

[LGM]

Why, if we are being (rightly) told to take everything into account when comparing similarly "statted" qbs, are we not mentioning the obvious?

Whatever gains we get in having a vertical threat with Flacco is offset by his immobility. And last year, Case was flushed repeatedly trying to throw deep.

Now, do I expect improvement with Munchack? Sure. But we also dont know if at least 3 of our 5 starters last year will be back.

So again, if this is simply a move to say Case doesnt fit, then fine. But dont try to sell me this clunker with slow tire leaks by telling me I get better gas mileage.

 

[Mingo]

Why, if we are being (rightly) told to take everything into account when comparing similarly "statted" qbs, are we not mentioning the obvious?

Whatever gains we get in having a vertical threat with Flacco is offset by his immobility. And last year, Case was flushed repeatedly trying to throw deep.

Now, do I expect improvement with Munchack? Sure. But we also dont know if at least 3 of our 5 starters last year will be back.

So again, if this is simply a move to say Case doesnt fit, then fine. But dont try to sell me this clunker with slow tire leaks by telling me I get better gas mileage.

If you have a guy who knows how to throw to his TEs - running for his life out of the pocket - doesn't become such a frequent occurrence.

I appreciate your skepticism @LGM - it is well warranted.

However - from the Bronco brain trust you must decide to blow the team up and rebuild, or put together a reasonable attempt at fielding a playoff contender. Elway - is not going for the rebuild.

After choosing the challenge of putting together a playoff contender - your are going to have to make some assumptions. You know you have a couple of fresh young RBs who can score TDs and get to the 2nd level. In order to support the run game - you get a QB who can throw deep and release quickly - and one who has a history of making good on field decisions. Yes - the Oline is a question mark, but the Broncos did go out an get the best Oline Coach in the business today. We have yet to see what Coach Munch - gets in Free Agency and in the draft to fill the bill. Yes - the Broncos are betting on the come that the Oline will be there when you need it during the season, but they have so far addressed that problem.

One thing is obvious - if Fangio's defenses are designed to defend every inch of the field - he will want his offense to threaten every inch of the field - to challenge the opposition to play to the level of his defenses.

 

[Dr Cyanide 28]

Four ways the Broncos got better by acquiring Joe Flacco

 

[Dr Cyanide 28]

Case Keenum was legit the worst QB in the NFL in BOTH 3rd down efficiency and RZ efficiency. Flacco was actually really good on 3rd down and in RZ.

He's trash. Flacco isn't great but he is a clear upgrade. Stats be damned. You are including an extreme outlier season with Keenum (as stated above) but that doesn't take into account how different the situations they were under were.

When your best weapons have been Aiken, the corpse of Crabtree, the stone handed brown, and a myriad of horrible TE picks, your stats are going to look bad.

I would argue the likes of Sutton, Patrick, Hamilton, and Sanders is far and away better than anything he has had since Bolden and Smith played with Flacco.

 

[fightinredantz]

The play calling didn't do Keenum any favors either.

 

[Orange Crush77]

The Doc makes some good points about the quality around Flacco, but we do not have the offensive line to keep a clean pocket, which is what Flacco ultimately needs to be remotely successful

 

[Orange Crush77]

That being said, I hope we get real players this off-season instead of trying to play moneyball with the shit show we signed last off-season. I did not like any of the FA last season, or that stupid trade for Cravens

 

[cdumler7]

The Doc makes some good points about the quality around Flacco, but we do not have the offensive line to keep a clean pocket, which is what Flacco ultimately needs to be remotely successful

I would reserve judgment on the OL until 1) We see what Munchak can do with this unit and 2) what the Broncos do in FA for the OL. I look at what a quality OL coach can do in that of the Patriots. Scar retired for a year and that was the year Brady got the crap beat out of him especially in the AFC Championship game against the Broncos. The next year Scar comes back and boom they are a top-10 unit once again. Look what he did with Brown that they traded to play RT for them. Had an injury so had to move him to LT and he was actually very good at the position.

 

[Orange Crush77]

I would reserve judgment on the OL until 1) We see what Munchak can do with this unit and 2) what the Broncos do in FA for the OL. I look at what a quality OL coach can do in that of the Patriots. Scar retired for a year and that was the year Brady got the crap beat out of him especially in the AFC Championship game against the Broncos. The next year Scar comes back and boom they are a top-10 unit once again. Look what he did with Brown that they traded to play RT for them. Had an injury so had to move him to LT and he was actually very good at the position.

Definitely fair points

 

[Mingo]

Definitely fair points

That's the problem with @cdumler7 - he plays fair - that leaves a certain percentage of us at a disadvantage in getting to his level.

 

[Mingo]

If you guys quit on this thread now - Joe's not going to feel welcome in Bronco country. What else does Joe Flacco have to do now, but wait a month for the trade to be official and read boards like this one.

I have definitely warmed up to the strategy of trading for Flacco. Keenum - ought to be tradeable as well at $7 in cost to the salary cap - someone will have a pretty decent back up QB. The proof of the QB plan - after acquiring a 34 year old headliner - is how do you fill the backup spots? Scangarello will be required to find this year's Nick Mullins for one slot, but maybe the real Nick Mullins for the back up spot to Flacco.

It will also be interesting if the Broncos go for the brass ring rookie QB this year in the draft - or get a prospect this year and punt the top QB of the draft talk until next year.

 

[fightinredantz]

Still not on board with the Flacco plan. When he is introduced I will not cheer him. Trading for Flacco almost makes me want to draft a QB at 10.

 

[Oldschool739]

Still not on board with the Flacco plan. When he is introduced I will not cheer him. Trading for Flacco almost makes me want to draft a QB at 10.

Just keep this in mind....11 TD's, 0 INT's, beat #1 & #2 seeds on the road and MVP with the #17th ranked D and Boldin and Jacoby Jones as his wr's....
And I think you'll warm up to him...

Oh and no scandals of any kind, all class....

 

[WalkerBoh]

I’m now wondering if Flacco will be good enough to bridge the gap between now and when Trevor Lawrence becomes draftable.....