Week 2 - Monday Night Football: Bears vs Eagles (Home Opener)

[beardown07]

And no, AJ was not already open at that point. He had not even got to the DB yet.

 

[richig07]

Really? I think you are exaggerating a tad...


While not ideal, I think the best you can say is what someone said earlier... He's developed some VERY bad habits due to the fact that he's been running for his life for so long... I'd submit this throw as an example of that.

That was me who said that... and yes, he is clearly running away from the play. He had to turn and throw all the way across the field. You understand why that is so difficult... right?

 

[beardown07]

That was me who said that... and yes, he is clearly running away from the play. He had to turn and throw all the way across the field. You understand why that is so difficult... right?

Nah man, he had a clean pocket, room to step into it, perfect pass protection and it was just a terrible throw, by a terrible human being.

 

[richig07]

A bit revisionist (Maybe hoping I wouldn't go back and look?). McCown played within the offense and did well.

He was actually 3-2 in games he started... The Redskins game where Cutler first got hurt he took over in the 2nd half and we lost 45-41 Cutler was 3-8 for 28 yards and an INT when he left, McCown finished 14-20 for 204 yards and 1 TD...

Next week McCown BEATS THE PACKERS putting up 272 yards and 2 TDs (Once again 0 INTs... You'll see this nifty little trend continue BTW.)

Lions game next week is Cutler's return. He once again underplays an injury, McCown comes in and leads a go ahead drive but we ultimately lose the game to Calvin Johnson (As always seemed to happen).

Then the Ravens. We win 23-20... McCown throws for a modest 216 1 TD and 0 INT

Got smoked by the Rams (Who were a pretty darn good defense BTW) 42-21... But McCown went 36-47 for 352 2 TD and 1 INT (Yes, he finally threw one).

Lost in OT to the Vikings the next week McCown 23-36 for 355 yards 2 TDs and 0 INTS

And then yes, the Dallas game against a terrible defense. McCown 27-36 4 TDs and 0 INTS , oh, and he also ran in a 5th TD...

So I'll stand by what I said. His schedule wasn't "cake". He performed admirably and effectively withing Trestman's offense and most importantly limited turnovers (But was hardly a "Game Manager"... He put up numbers too.)... Its fine to argue that perhaps McCown was simply a better fit in Trestman's offense, but one of the knocks on Cutler has always been that he doesn't play within the offense and it was especially the knock on him under Trestman...

End of season stats

Cutler: 63.1 comp %, 226.3 yds/gm, 19 TDs, 12 INTs, QB Rating: 89.2
McCown: 66.5 comp %, 224 yds/gm, 13 TDs, 1 INT, QB Rating: 109.0

He didn't play a single winning team outside of GB (who was missing Rogers and playing Seneca Wallace... important note to recall), and played the two worst defense's in football. Minnesota and Dallas's defense's were bad on a HISTORICAL basis that year. He managed to lead an attack that put up only 20 points in a loss to Minnesota. His schedule was 150% cake... He ran a very basic and simplified version of Trestman's offense, versus very subpar competition. Which led to very few turnovers, and a few wins. Also, a couple of bad losses.

St. Louis had a good D? They were 15th overall and 19th against the pass. That's not very good... That game was lost on the defensive side of the ball, regardless. I think that was the game we gave up like 250+ on the ground and 100 yards to two different backs. 10 YPC or something. Utterly ridiculous.

And yes... Cutler was still terribly injured playing in that Detroit game. Performed well in the first half. In the second half I remember he was literally hopping on one foot down the field at some points. That was a game we had NO business losing. We gave it away, and if we pull Cutler earlier. Maybe we win it, and in turn. Make the playoffs...

That's the thing though. We damn Cutler for not toughing through a knee ligament tear in the NFCCG, but we also damn him when he has the balls to play with torn ligaments in his ankle? When he tries to tough out a thumb injury, like Monday night? How is that fair? He said himself, when he realized he was hurting the team he said so. I don't know what people want.

 

[anotheridiot]

And no, AJ was not already open at that point. He had not even got to the DB yet.

watch the whole video, the second view, Jeffrey had the DB down at the 35. Thats when the ball should have been thrown, while Jay was still in the pocket. Same time went by and Alshon would have walked in from the 30 untouched.

You want me to take you seriously, give some credit to Alshon for hanging on as he is hit in the lower back coming down from leaping for the hail mary pass.

 

[beardown07]

watch the whole video, the second view, Jeffrey had the DB down at the 35. Thats when the ball should have been thrown, while Jay was still in the pocket. Same time went by and Alshon would have walked in from the 30 untouched.

You want me to take you seriously, give some credit to Alshon for hanging on as he is hit in the lower back coming down from leaping for the hail mary pass.

It was an amazing catch by Jeffrey. Duh! But that is not what we are discussing. Your analysis of the play is wrong. When YOU say it should have been thrown, completely negates the pass rush, as if there were none. When the ball SHOULD come out is great for practices, not so much for games, or REALITY. Jeffrey had not even got to the DB that was defending him by the time the rush is affecting Jay.

 

[averagejoe]

I think the best you can say is what someone said earlier... He's developed some VERY bad habits due to the fact that he's been running for his life for so long...

Heard Jay Gruden on Mike and Mike pretty much say the same thing.
And I agree.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I get some of these numbers wrong, but they also rattled off that Jay has had 3 GM's, 3 head coaches, and 9 offensive coorindinators since getting to Chicago. Jay is the only player still on the team from when he was traded here. And we only have 1 draft pick still on the team from prior to 2011.

Hard to have success when you have that much churn. And nothing to show for it from your drafts.

Gonna be a long season.

 

[wood20ks]

Stop it. It's a PA pass, by the time he finishes the fake, there is someone coming right up the gut at him. He throws it there, and his knee is wide open for the taking. Almost a guaranteed torn ACL.


It was a great play by Jay.


Criticize him for the all shit he does wrong, but let's leave the few things he does right alone.


I agree Joey completely on this one. It was a great "save" play by Jay, after more terrible line play.



The game as a whole, Cutler can fuck right off, but that play, he did all he could do, and came away with a big play.


I don't take any of your criticisms of Cutler serious, because you are sooo blatantly biased against him, that you'll find complaints, where there is none.

HE THREW IT UP FOR GRABS......Sorry but that's how it happened.

Listen to the announcers,look how how Alshon had to more less come back after the ball.......

And jay had a "great save"?
What did he save?.........The defender had no bearing on Jays throw.............The defender put up his arms after jay was already halfway through his throwing motion.
The only thing he basically did was move out of the pocket and let it fly..................Nothing spectacular there.

 

[averagejoe]

The only thing he basically did was move out of the pocket and let it fly..................Nothing spectacular there.

I'm not debating what some want to see on the play.
But how often do fans complain that with a WR like Jeffery, why doesn't Jay throw more jump balls?
He did throw a jump ball on this play.


For the record, IMO, all you need to watch is the first 8 seconds of the video.
Seven guys in for the Bears blocking 4 Eagles players.
Zach Miller and Paulsen (both TE) double-teaming couldn't hold their block for more than 2 seconds.
Leno on the other side of the line also succumbed in less than 2 seconds.
So after the snap, Jay has 2 seconds to avoid pressure, and then heave it to Alshon.

Yet despite the completion, there is complaining? Correction - complaining about Jay on this play?

 

[wood20ks]

I'm not debating what some want to see on the play.
But how often do fans complain that with a WR like Jeffery, why doesn't Jay throw more jump balls?
He did throw a jump ball on this play.


For the record, IMO, all you need to watch is the first 8 seconds of the video.
Seven guys in for the Bears blocking 4 Eagles players.
Zach Miller and Paulsen (both TE) double-teaming couldn't hold their block for more than 2 seconds.
Leno on the other side of the line also succumbed in less than 2 seconds.
So after the snap, Jay has 2 seconds to avoid pressure, and then heave it to Alshon.

Yet despite the completion, there is complaining? Correction - complaining about Jay on this play?

I'm not disputing there was pressure...........All he did was move out of the pocket set himself and was actually3/4s of the way through his motion before the defender could get there and throw up his hands..........There was nothing spectacular about the qb play.........but a huge grab by Alshon.

I just don`t know how anyone can see it any differently........

 

[beardown07]

HE THREW IT UP FOR GRABS......Sorry but that's how it happened.

Listen to the announcers,look how how Alshon had to more less come back after the ball.......

And jay had a "great save"?
What did he save?.........The defender had no bearing on Jays throw.............The defender put up his arms after jay was already halfway through his throwing motion.
The only thing he basically did was move out of the pocket and let it fly..................Nothing spectacular there.

He totally threw it up for grabs, (so what?) it ended being a great play. 49 yards to be exact. It was an EXCELLENT catch by AJ, and it was a pretty good effort by Jay to get it there. By "save", I mean the play was majorly disrupted by the initial defender through. It was a very good job by Jay avoiding that and being able to still let it fly against the grain with another defender in his face. Since he was already late on the initial play due to the disruption, he had to let it fly immediately or he would've never got it there, which as we know, it barely did anyway.

It was a good play. If it was Rodgers who had done it, people would be slurping his nut sweat.

 

[anotheridiot]

I'm not debating what some want to see on the play.
But how often do fans complain that with a WR like Jeffery, why doesn't Jay throw more jump balls?
He did throw a jump ball on this play.

Pretty much the complaining starts because all Jay throws are jump balls. I am surprised one of them has not called that jump ball a "back shoulder" throw with Jay putting the ball exactly where he wanted.

 

[Payton]

That was me who said that... and yes, he is clearly running away from the play. He had to turn and throw all the way across the field. You understand why that is so difficult... right?

You understand that had he stepped right one step he could have easily stepped into that throw, Ya know, like Wentz THE ROOKIE did? Heck, he COULD have stepped into it anyway. You act like he was running full throttle to his left and threw across his body. That isn't what happened...

 

[Payton]

He didn't play a single winning team outside of GB (who was missing Rogers and playing Seneca Wallace... important note to recall), and played the two worst defense's in football. Minnesota and Dallas's defense's were bad on a HISTORICAL basis that year. He managed to lead an attack that put up only 20 points in a loss to Minnesota. His schedule was 150% cake... He ran a very basic and simplified version of Trestman's offense, versus very subpar competition. Which led to very few turnovers, and a few wins. Also, a couple of bad losses.

St. Louis had a good D? They were 15th overall and 19th against the pass. That's not very good... That game was lost on the defensive side of the ball, regardless. I think that was the game we gave up like 250+ on the ground and 100 yards to two different backs. 10 YPC or something. Utterly ridiculous.

And yes... Cutler was still terribly injured playing in that Detroit game. Performed well in the first half. In the second half I remember he was literally hopping on one foot down the field at some points. That was a game we had NO business losing. We gave it away, and if we pull Cutler earlier. Maybe we win it, and in turn. Make the playoffs...

That's the thing though. We damn Cutler for not toughing through a knee ligament tear in the NFCCG, but we also damn him when he has the balls to play with torn ligaments in his ankle? When he tries to tough out a thumb injury, like Monday night? How is that fair? He said himself, when he realized he was hurting the team he said so. I don't know what people want.

I damn him for the same shit that I see year after year after year after year.... Offseason, "Oh yeah the offense is coming together, blah blah blah." and then the same ole shit EVERY time.

Last year under Gase was a banner year for Cutler because it is the first time I can remember someone being able to reign in Cutler, have him settle the fuck down and play a controlled game instead of thinking he's playing Madden '11, '12, '13, etc, etc, etc... I get that the circumstances aren't ideal, but Cutler CLEARLY isn't a QB who transcends much in the way of adversity. So what is the purpose of having him?

 

[Payton]

And hey richig07, I mean no disrespect, just a spirited discussion. We both want the same thing...

I just believe that Cutler has had plenty of time to find something that works for him while you apparently think he's capable if we just give him a better supporting cast and some consistency... But since that ain't gonna happen... LOL!!!

 

[richig07]

watch the whole video, the second view, Jeffrey had the DB down at the 35. Thats when the ball should have been thrown, while Jay was still in the pocket. Same time went by and Alshon would have walked in from the 30 untouched.

You want me to take you seriously, give some credit to Alshon for hanging on as he is hit in the lower back coming down from leaping for the hail mary pass.

Lol... He threw a ball about 60 yards in the air, rolling away from the play, falling away and with a defender in his face. What do you want? You realize there's QB's that can't even get a ball that far stepping into it, that are in the league?

 

[richig07]

And hey richig07, I mean no disrespect, just a spirited discussion. We both want the same thing...

I just believe that Cutler has had plenty of time to find something that works for him while you apparently think he's capable if we just give him a better supporting cast and some consistency... But since that ain't gonna happen... LOL!!!

Oh, no dude. I don't mean disrespect either. If you're sensing agitation on my part, I assure you. It is not directed at you. Talking about this team since Monday night, it puts me in a pretty shitty mood. lol. I'm pretty passionate about the team, and I'm pretty sick of this shit. I really thought we'd AT LEAST compete this year, and make things interesting. Since the NFCCG in 2010. This team has been nothing but heartbreak.

NFCCG - Lose Jay to injury, still nearly come back and win. Drive to the GB 25. Hanie picked off with under 30 seconds to play.

2011 - Run off 5 impressive wins, get to 7-3. Offense and defense both firing on all cylinders. Talks of a Bears/Pack NFCCG rematch and Bears super bowl run swirling. Then, Cutler hurt and Forte hurt in back to back weeks. Hanie is a disaster... We lose to Tebow... Ugh... AWFUL

2012 - Start 7-1... Lose back to back to HOU/SF. All goes downhill from there. Gut wrenching loss to Seattle, another loss to GB... Vikings upset the Pack to knock us out of the playoffs in OT. Again... AWFUL.

2013 - Hand away games to WSH, DET and MIN. Still in position at 8-6 to clinch the North. Instead, lose both games, including a last second heartbreaker to Green Bay with everything on the line. Again... AWFUL

2014 - Optimism around the team like I never saw. Experts predicting Super Bowls and a Jay Cutler MVP season, of all things. Out of the gate, disaster ensues. Cutler benched, Trestman fired, locker room implosions, Brandon Marshall going psychotic... Utter CHAOS.

2015 - 6-10... but hey... we expected it.

2016 - Finally, I think that I like the direction we're heading in... Young GM making moves, experienced and proven coaching staff and a revamped defense. Then all of my hopes and dreams come crashing down like a ton of bricks on Monday night.

It's just been a BRUTAL time to be a Bears fan, and I'm sick of it. lol

And hey... I think I was the first in this thread to say its time to part ways with Jay. I just think he gets an unfair reputation, that's all. He'll be 34 next season, and cutting him loose will save a lot of money. This team is in the midst of a youth movement. I agree, that letting Jay go could very likely be the right call. I would, however, like to see how he plays when he returns in 2-3 weeks. Like they say he now will.

 

[anotheridiot]

Lol... He threw a ball about 60 yards in the air, rolling away from the play, falling away and with a defender in his face. What do you want? You realize there's QB's that can't even get a ball that far stepping into it, that are in the league?

I dont think any of us want a quarterback that closes his eyes and throws as far as he can to the middle of the field. Its kinda what happened with Royals punt return.

 

[Payton]

Oh, no dude. I don't mean disrespect either. If you're sensing agitation on my part, I assure you. It is not directed at you. Talking about this team since Monday night, it puts me in a pretty shitty mood. lol. I'm pretty passionate about the team, and I'm pretty sick of this shit. I really thought we'd AT LEAST compete this year, and make things interesting. Since the NFCCG in 2010. This team has been nothing but heartbreak.

NFCCG - Lose Jay to injury, still nearly come back and win. Drive to the GB 25. Hanie picked off with under 30 seconds to play.

2011 - Run off 5 impressive wins, get to 7-3. Offense and defense both firing on all cylinders. Talks of a Bears/Pack NFCCG rematch and Bears super bowl run swirling. Then, Cutler hurt and Forte hurt in back to back weeks. Hanie is a disaster... We lose to Tebow... Ugh... AWFUL

2012 - Start 7-1... Lose back to back to HOU/SF. All goes downhill from there. Gut wrenching loss to Seattle, another loss to GB... Vikings upset the Pack to knock us out of the playoffs in OT. Again... AWFUL.

2013 - Hand away games to WSH, DET and MIN. Still in position at 8-6 to clinch the North. Instead, lose both games, including a last second heartbreaker to Green Bay with everything on the line. Again... AWFUL

2014 - Optimism around the team like I never saw. Experts predicting Super Bowls and a Jay Cutler MVP season, of all things. Out of the gate, disaster ensues. Cutler benched, Trestman fired, locker room implosions, Brandon Marshall going psychotic... Utter CHAOS.

2015 - 6-10... but hey... we expected it.

2016 - Finally, I think that I like the direction we're heading in... Young GM making moves, experienced and proven coaching staff and a revamped defense. Then all of my hopes and dreams come crashing down like a ton of bricks on Monday night.

It's just been a BRUTAL time to be a Bears fan, and I'm sick of it. lol

And hey... I think I was the first in this thread to say its time to part ways with Jay. I just think he gets an unfair reputation, that's all. He'll be 34 next season, and cutting him loose will save a lot of money. This team is in the midst of a youth movement. I agree, that letting Jay go could very likely be the right call. I would, however, like to see how he plays when he returns in 2-3 weeks. Like they say he now will.

Yeah, I think you laid it out pretty well here why we're all frustrated... LOL!!!

 

[richig07]

I dont think any of us want a quarterback that closes his eyes and throws as far as he can to the middle of the field. Its kinda what happened with Royals punt return.

Lol...

What? Closes his eyes? Are you insinuating he didn't see Alshon and just threw it as high and far as possible?

Honestly, AI... at this point. Do YOU even believe the shit you say?