Series Thread: Warriors and Memphis

[CitySushi]

"Bogut should shoot better"

Hey, CityS, when you can't even quote me accurately (see above), I'll just rest my case.

And, why are my posts "rants" as opposed to yours? Our posts are about the same length, neither of us is cursing the other. We're just having a discussion and we seem to have a general disagreement. Neither of us seems interested in backing down or giving the other one any credit, so we'll have to just leave it at that. We're both trying to make our points, and to say that one of us is "ranting" or "escalating on" while the other is, I guess, "the adult" is silly and I'd think you'd find it hard to sell that argument.

"Considering I agreed with your initial premise, I have no idea how it got this deep"

Finally, I failed to see where you agreed with anything that I said. If you did, you might want to copy something that you said (not restate or paraphrase it, but actually copy your exact words from a previous post). Maybe I didn't catch you agreeing with me. Or, don't bother with it. It's no big deal at this point. We both love the Warriors. Let's move on.

I never said Bogut shouldn't be able to score. I said specifically he does other things to make up for a lack of scoring. I said it would be a plus if he could, but anything he provides is gravy. You seemed to be adamant about his lack of scoring potentially costing us a series or championship. I simply pointed out that wasn't the case because of what he does within our offense and you kind of ran with that.

Any defense I had of Bogut's pluses that he brought to the team in substitution of scoring was rebutted with overwhelming disagreement to the point of defensiveness. You also added to points by interpreting my comments to support your own conclusion. All of my first lengthy post addressed my thoughts on Bogut and what he brought to the table. It wasn't in opposition of your point of view.

I'm all for a lively sports discussion, but when you start throwing out wild analogies that's what got to me. All of my posts are lengthy because I like to fully explain myself. Which I did. You refuted them with extreme examples which to me were wildly inconsistent with anything I said, or even anything you said.

Here's what I specifically wrote:

"In a perfect world, it would be great if we had Shaq or Duncan or Noah or Hakeem. But alas, we have Bogut. And what my main point has been is that he doesn't need to be anything other than what he is."

"Defensively, he sets the tone. He doesn't need to be the home run hitter, he just needs to make sure he does his job well. His job is to defend the rim, alter shots, rebound and play outstanding defense. He has done that in every game this series."

"You said it yourself Curry is more than that. Bogut is not. He has limitations. But within those limitations the coaching staff has put in a position to thrive."

"Not even close to what I said. I'm saying he doesn't NEED to score. Everyone should always be working to better themselves. He is on the team for his defense. Anything else is a bonus."

"The Warriors run a motion based system, not reliant upon a big to draw a double team. That's the beauty of their system. Bogut fits within the offensive scope of what is needed from him."

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

"I'm saying he doesn't NEED to score."

"I never said Bogut shouldn't be able to score."

Okay, make up your mind. Bogut does or doesn't need to score?

I also made the point that Bogut should shoot a little bit more so as to keep the defense honest. You apparently do not believe in the idea of keeping the defense honest. Would it be better if Tony Allen (Memphis) could shoot from the outside? Of course it would. The Warriors have taken advantage of his lack of shooting to stop them on offense. Tony Allen's lack of a good shooting touch is hurting the Griz. That doesn't take away from his other abilities, but it is still true. It doesn't mean they should dismiss Allen from the team. It JUST IS!

This is like saying that it's not good that HB or AI9 contribute in scoring, that we can still win most of the time if their scoring ability is less than good. How anyone can say that we don't need for any of the major players on a team to be able to score, especially when they shoot the highest FG % on the team (Bogut), is, honestly a bit funny. You act as though someone with defensive skills shouldn't have any responsibility to help out on offense. It's the equivalent of saying that James Harden or Steph Curry, given their offensive talents, shouldn't bother to better themselves on defense because their offense is so good. IT'S THE SAME DAMN THING.

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

GO DUBS!!!!!

TCOB on Beale Street.

 

[CitySushi]

"I'm saying he doesn't NEED to score."

"I never said Bogut shouldn't be able to score."

Okay, make up your mind. Bogut does or doesn't need to score?

I also made the point that Bogut should shoot a little bit more so as to keep the defense honest. You apparently do not believe in the idea of keeping the defense honest. Would it be better if Tony Allen (Memphis) could shoot from the outside? Of course it would. The Warriors have taken advantage of his lack of shooting to stop them on offense. Tony Allen's lack of a good shooting touch is hurting the Griz. That doesn't take away from his other abilities, but it is still true. It doesn't mean they should dismiss Allen from the team. It JUST IS!

This is like saying that it's not good that HB or AI9 contribute in scoring, that we can still win most of the time if their scoring ability is less than good. How anyone can say that we don't need for any of the major players on a team to be able to score, especially when they shoot the highest FG % on the team (Bogut), is, honestly a bit funny. You act as though someone with defensive skills shouldn't have any responsibility to help out on offense. It's the equivalent of saying that James Harden or Steph Curry, given their offensive talents, shouldn't bother to better themselves on defense because their offense is so good. IT'S THE SAME DAMN THING.

Okay, make up your mind. Bogut does or doesn't need to score?

Since when is "should be able to score" and "not needing to score" mutually exclusive? Think about it. Harrison Barnes should be able to score 20 a game. He doesn't need to though. See how that works?

Would it be nice if Barnes scored 20 a game. Absolutely. But what does he need to do to be effective on our team? Play great defense, hit a corner 3 every now and again and rebound. Why? Because that's his ROLE.

It's the equivalent of saying that James Harden or Steph Curry, given their offensive talents, shouldn't bother to better themselves on defense because their offense is so good. IT'S THE SAME DAMN THING.

All you've done is twist my words on Bogut's strengths and what he brings to the table to somehow fit in your narrative that I believe Bogut shouldn't be able to score 2 feet from the basket. That's insane. I've said he's not needed to command a double team or isolation post up and score because that's not his role. That's a far cry from saying he can't make a wide open layup.

You've seen this team win 67 games this year in the regular season, all while Bogut has played the same game from day 1. Why all of sudden is that not good enough? And who said he shouldn't improve himself? Where are you getting this from?


You've picked and chosen what you wanted to respond to with all my posts. I've clearly addressed every one of yours, but for some reason you can't even answer a simple question as to what Bogut's role on offense is. I can see why you haven't answered it, because it would destroy pretty much any argument you have on here.

The conversation was entertaining for me at first, but has become strenuous. Since you've done nothing but give crazy extreme examples when they do not even have even the slightest correlation to what I've said, I'll consider that you have nothing further to contribute. Do you ever wonder if maybe, slightly, possibly, you're in the wrong when everyone does not agree with your stance? Or is everyone else crazy?



Enjoy the game. I certainly will.

 

[CitySushi]

GO DUBS!!!!!

TCOB on Beale Street.

See what you started Yoga! Keep your damn baseball references to yourself next time!

Joking, obv.

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

"Do you ever wonder if maybe, slightly, possibly, you're in the wrong when everyone does not agree with your stance?"

Your real name wouldn't happen to be "everyone", would it?

I can't count all of the things in your last post that are so wrong, and I'm not going to take the time to address them. We seem to be of the same ilk....those who are never wrong. Let's drop it.

Go Dubs!

 

[Montalban]

So, you guys are all for Bogut, a 7 foot center with years of experience in the NBA, to be so afraid of putting up a 2-6 foot shot, that he passes the ball out to anyone else rather than shoot? No one but me can see that someone who can't or won't shoot the ball is giving the defense an advantage by not being offensive minded?

That's like saying that Curry, the point guard, doesn't need to score. He just needs to get everyone involved, maybe take 6-8 shots per game, be the floor leader, etc. But, of course, Curry is much more than that. How dare him bother to be both a point guard and a great shooter and scorer. Also, how dare he bother to work on his defense so that he could be more of a contributor on defense. Everyone should just be content as they are and not bother to better themselves so that they can contribute even more to the team.

Bogut's lack of offense HURTS the team on the offensive side of the ball. I hope that his lack of offense doesn't prevent us from winning this series, or the next series or the Championship series. Or, better yet, I hope that he ups his game on the offensive side of the ball and becomes more of a presence on offense so that everyone has to be guarded....no one can be unguarded so that the other team can double team guys like Curry or Thompson.

Bogut's lack of offense does really hurt but his shot is so clumsy that I'm glad he doesn't shoot. Its strange because he was once a pretty dominant scorer in Milwaukee. He does a good job of other thigs though and the Dubs would probably get swept in any series that he was not playing in.

 

[Montalban]

Going to be a tough game tonight. Memphis has their backs to the wall and its ptetty tough to beat a good team three times in a row. I'm going with Memphis tonight making a strong start and dominating the Warriors in the first quarter with the Dubs having their usual heads up their asses start to the game, turning the ball over at a very rapid rate, and then doing enough to hang on and beat the Dubs 8 or 10 points.
Dubs will take game 7 at home.

 

[Band of Brothers]

Congrats to the Warriors on advancing to the West Finals..first time since 1976. Great effort tonight.

Go Warriors !!

 

[Montalban]

Good job by the Dubs. Best-played game by them in the series. They did not allow Memphis to get second chance after second chance shots like they'd done all series tonight. They also pulled their heads out of the asses much earlier tonight and played a solid 1st quarter. The stayed on the Grizzlies the entire night and only played poorly in the 3rd quarter. Very well done! On to the conference finals and the hated rival, Clippers.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Bogut's lack of offense does really hurt but his shot is so clumsy that I'm glad he doesn't shoot. Its strange because he was once a pretty dominant scorer in Milwaukee. He does a good job of other thigs though and the Dubs would probably get swept in any series that he was not playing in.

I cringe more when David Lee shoots that elbow jumper, lol

 

[Pattersonca65]

Congrats Warriors. First Conf finals appearance in 30 years

 

[Montalban]

I cringe more when David Lee shoots that elbow jumper, lol

Ha ha! Agreed. How was this guy ever an All Star? Credit to him though for taking his demotion like a team player and still trying to work hard.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Ha ha! Agreed. How was this guy ever an All Star? Credit to him though for taking his demotion like a team player and still trying to work hard.

He used to be able to hit that jumper. Not this year. I dont he made one in the playoffs

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

Well that was a fun game to watch. Even when the Griz got close I just never thought that the Warriors would lose.

A few observations:

1) on Curry's 70 foot shot to end the 3rd quarter, how do they figure that it was a 6 pt swing? AI9 blocked or fouled Allen or Green and the ball didn't leave his hands...the ball never went to the goal or out of Green's hands, but they call it a 6 point swing?

2) When they came back on tv early to the game, before it had started, I believe I saw Hubie Brown doing cheers for the Grizzlies on the court. But seriously, was he not pulling for the Grizzlies the entire game? Maybe he felt sorry for them or something, but you're supposed to be professional about it and not let your bias show. Just my opinion.

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

The Scoop...
Golden State Warriors vs Memphis Grizzlies - Recap

The Stats...
Golden State Warriors vs. Memphis Grizzlies - Box Score - May 15, 2015 - ESPN

The Shots...
Golden State Warriors vs. Memphis Grizzlies - Photos - May 15, 2015 - ESPN

 

[msgkings322]

Going to be a tough game tonight. Memphis has their backs to the wall and its ptetty tough to beat a good team three times in a row. I'm going with Memphis tonight making a strong start and dominating the Warriors in the first quarter with the Dubs having their usual heads up their asses start to the game, turning the ball over at a very rapid rate, and then doing enough to hang on and beat the Dubs 8 or 10 points.
Dubs will take game 7 at home.

Nailed it!

 

[GregWarriorsfan]

When in doubt, be pessimistic.

 

[Montalban]

Well that was a fun game to watch. Even when the Griz got close I just never thought that the Warriors would lose.

A few observations:

1) on Curry's 70 foot shot to end the 3rd quarter, how do they figure that it was a 6 pt swing? AI9 blocked or fouled Allen or Green and the ball didn't leave his hands...the ball never went to the goal or out of Green's hands, but they call it a 6 point swing?

2) When they came back on tv early to the game, before it had started, I believe I saw Hubie Brown doing cheers for the Grizzlies on the court. But seriously, was he not pulling for the Grizzlies the entire game? Maybe he felt sorry for them or something, but you're supposed to be professional about it and not let your bias show. Just my opinion.

Agreed. It was a 5 point swing and cost the Grizzlies a shot at winning the game.

 

[msgkings322]

When in doubt, be pessimistic.

That dude hasn't acquitted himself well with predictions in this thread. Or ever.