Wandy Rodriguez - Pirates close to landing

[thedddd]

Outside who they gave up I am very happy they got another quality starter. I do feel way much better about this team than last years (before that freefall).

 

[TheBurgh88]

Now I'm worried they may trade for Pence. Bonehead would probably give up Cole, Tallion, Marte, and Hanson.

They will regret this deal. Almsot as bad as the 15 million they gave to Tabata. It will be great paying him 5 million a year to be a 5th outfielder in a few years.

 

[element1286]

I doubt they trade for Pence, I read some reports that the Pirates never really liked him that much.

 

[thecrow124]

I am not feeling that bad about the deal, we gave up 2 guys that have the upsode of #4 starters and a guy I see as a 4th OFer for an established solid #3 starter who is pitching close to a #2 level this year.
I also have a feeling that Houston is going to have to eat more than half the money owed to Wandy, Probably close to $20 million of the $38 million owed.
Like has been pointed out, he will replace Correia and add another lefty to the rotation between McDonald and Burnett.

edit: Astros pick up $12 million if Wandy exercises his option.

 

[thedddd]

I read that NH never wanted Pence either. I wouldn't have minded him too much if the price was right but not for a boat load.

Interested to hear more about the rumors about Choo. If the Indians aren't asking for the mother load I would like him more.

 

[element1286]

I'm confused if the option was exercised or not, I originally heard that the option was automatically exercised when he was traded.

And here is the salary breakdown per Rob Biertempfel:

Here is breakdown of money #Pirates will owe to LHP Wandy Rodriguez: They’ll pay $1.7M this year (of $10 he’s making), $8.5M in 2013 (of $13M). If player option is exercised, Pirates will pay Rodriguez $7.5M in 2014 (of $13M).

 

[element1286]

I read that NH never wanted Pence either. I wouldn't have minded him too much if the price was right but not for a boat load.

Interested to hear more about the rumors about Choo. If the Indians aren't asking for the mother load I would like him more.

Agreed.

 

[steelparrot]

I was with the haters till I saw we have him through 2014

Our rotation is walking out the door rather quickly.

2 1/half years 17.5 mill, hes worth that much money, like it or not players dont sign with the pirates for market value, we have to 'Werth' them or trade for them.

Now for the bat.

 

[pixburgher66]

Was it a lot? Yes. However, if we look at this from another angle: how many of these guys were going to legitimately have an impact on the MLB roster? Grossman was years out still, would be solid guy, but no star. Cain is having a terrible year. Owens would be our 4th tops. Basically, they were just trade chips. And they were used as such.

 

[thedddd]

Pix...Great point like the others stated. It is a huge gamble to take for a Pitcher like Rodriguez but in the end I am happy they have another quality starter for this year and next after Bedard walks.

 

[pixburgher66]

Pix...Great point like the others stated. It is a huge gamble to take for a Pitcher like Rodriguez but in the end I am happy they have another quality starter for this year and next after Bedard walks.

Exactly. And the guy is going from Minute "short porch" Maid Park to PNC. Not a bad switch there (though his first start is in MinuteMaid...). I just think baseball fans rate prospects a lot higher than a lot of other sports. I guess they're just the most impactful in the MLB. Gotta give to get...and the Astros are rebuilding, they weren't just looking to get money off the books (though they basically have no books now...).

 

[thecrow124]

Yeah just trying to find a silver lining. 3 of their top 20 prospects for him is way too much (not to mention probably there top 2 left handed prospects).

Jeff Locke is the best LHP prospect in our system, before and after this trade andis Justin Wilson is andto was #2. This also opens up a spot in Indy for McPherson.

 

[pixburgher66]

Wandy's HR allowed, put into the PNC distance.

 

[Illinest]

That's a good trade.
I like Wandy Rodriguez, I think he'll do well here. I like Robbie Grossman a lot and I think that he's the biggest loss of them all but I am comfortable with what we lost to get Wandy.
As for Rudy Owens...
EH.
At worst we gave up the next Jeff Karstens maybe, and Colton Cain hasn't made an impression on me yet.


With James McDonald struggling I think it's important that we could get another starter of this caliber. Rodriguez, Karstens and Burnett is a solid group. Bedard has been coming around and McDonald still has so much potential if he gets it straightened out. NOW I believe that we have a rotation that can get us to the playoffs. One more piece. An outfielder. Could be Marte if Neil isn't a wuss.

 

[thedddd]

Jeff Locke is the best LHP prospect in our system, before and after this trade andis Justin Wilson is andto was #2. This also opens up a spot in Indy for McPherson.

.... sh%t you know I was thinking of Locke what talking about Owens!

My bad but still I am happy they got a very good quality starter but very suprised NH gave up that much. I know they are prospects and huge question marks and if the money is right it will make sense in the end.

The biggest thing is the Pirates are actually showing they are going for it to the end this year.

 

[ramburgh]

The Pirates traded depth (OF & SP) for a quality, proven SP. I don't think that management rated/ranked any of the players traded at the level of outsiders. Also, I think the week suspension of Grossman put the writing on the wall that management was upset about something.

Interesting that now there is $27,500,000 guaranteed next year to Rodriguez, Burnett, Barmes, McCutchen and Tabata.

2 players will be in their third year of arbitration (Hanrahan and Karstens), 5 will be in their second year of arbitration (McGehee, Morton, Jones, Meek, Resop) and 2 in their first year (McDonald and Walker).

Payroll is going to have to increase significantly. Add Pence or Upton and payroll will be in the $80M ballpark for 2012 and that is factoring in the discounted amounts paid to Burnett and Rodriguez.

 

[thecrow124]

The Pirates traded depth (OF & SP) for a quality, proven SP. I don't think that management rated/ranked any of the players traded at the level of outsiders. Also, I think the week suspension of Grossman put the writing on the wall that management was upset about something.

Interesting that now there is $27,500,000 guaranteed next year to Rodriguez, Burnett, Barmes, McCutchen and Tabata.

2 players will be in their third year of arbitration (Hanrahan and Karstens), 5 will be in their second year of arbitration (McGehee, Morton, Jones, Meek, Resop) and 2 in their first year (McDonald and Walker).

Payroll is going to have to increase significantly. Add Pence or Upton and payroll will be in the $80M ballpark for 2012 and that is factoring in the discounted amounts paid to Burnett and Rodriguez.

The addition of Wandy should take us over $60 million anyway. At the rate people are showing up to games right now at PNC, it is not inconceivable to think that they could actually create enough revenue to add another $10 million. Then there is the money saved by not signing Appel, that is almost $4 million, that alone would push us to close to $75 million. Add in extra revenue from any playoff games, and $80 million for a short term would be feasable. I am not saying that we could stay at that level for an extended period, but for 2 or 3 years it would be possible.
After this year, Hanny will likely be let go, saving some money, after next season Burnett is gone, and after that Wandy comes off, so even with the addition of Pence/Upton, our payroll would not stay at that $80 million dollar level for long. By that time, we would be looking at having Cole and Taillon in the rotation making league minimum, saving a considerable amount of money.

 

[26 elroy face]

That's a good trade.
I like Wandy Rodriguez, I think he'll do well here. I like Robbie Grossman a lot and I think that he's the biggest loss of them all but I am comfortable with what we lost to get Wandy.
As for Rudy Owens...
EH.
At worst we gave up the next Jeff Karstens maybe, and Colton Cain hasn't made an impression on me yet.


With James McDonald struggling I think it's important that we could get another starter of this caliber. Rodriguez, Karstens and Burnett is a solid group. Bedard has been coming around and McDonald still has so much potential if he gets it straightened out. NOW I believe that we have a rotation that can get us to the playoffs. One more piece. An outfielder. Could be Marte if Neil isn't a wuss.

I couldn't agree more. Wandy steps in as the #2 starter. Looking at his stats he's been at the wrong place at the wrong time.

12 Quality starts
Leads the majors in tough losses
His WHIP would be 2nd lowest among all Pirate starters

 

[thecrow124]

So after a night to assess this trade and reading Tim Williams comments about how he doesn't like this trade, I have come to the conclusion that I really do like this trade.
I will admit though that I can also understand why people might not like it, it just all depends on how you feel about Grossman. If you think he is a future starting CF at the major league level with 15 HR power, then I can see how this trade would look bad. However, if you feel that Grossman is overrated as a prospect due to the anomoly of a season he had last year and then his hot streak in the AFL, then you probably don't feel to bad about this deal.
Personally I feel that Grossman is a 4th OFer type, who could start for a few years maybe, but really isn't going to be anything special. Owens, a player I really like, is not going to be much more than a #5, Cain is somewhat of a wildcard as well, but I can't really see him being much more than a #5 or bullpen fodder. None of them were going to help the Pirates major league team this year, and only Owens had a shot at helping them next year.
At some point, you have to stop playing for next season and play for the season you are in. Wandy is going to help us this year and next, by giving us a legitimate rotation 1-5, with three #2 type pitchers plus Karstens and Morton who could both be #3 type pitchers. Heck, maybe even Lincoln could be moving to the rotation next year.

 

[sychmd]

So after a night to assess this trade and reading Tim Williams comments about how he doesn't like this trade, I have come to the conclusion that I really do like this trade.
I will admit though that I can also understand why people might not like it, it just all depends on how you feel about Grossman. If you think he is a future starting CF at the major league level with 15 HR power, then I can see how this trade would look bad. However, if you feel that Grossman is overrated as a prospect due to the anomoly of a season he had last year and then his hot streak in the AFL, then you probably don't feel to bad about this deal.
Personally I feel that Grossman is a 4th OFer type, who could start for a few years maybe, but really isn't going to be anything special. Owens, a player I really like, is not going to be much more than a #5, Cain is somewhat of a wildcard as well, but I can't really see him being much more than a #5 or bullpen fodder. None of them were going to help the Pirates major league team this year, and only Owens had a shot at helping them next year.
At some point, you have to stop playing for next season and play for the season you are in. Wandy is going to help us this year and next, by giving us a legitimate rotation 1-5, with three #2 type pitchers plus Karstens and Morton who could both be #3 type pitchers. Heck, maybe even Lincoln could be moving to the rotation next year.

i agree.

1. aj
2. wandy (third most wins the last 3 yrs by a lefty in the NL. behind kershaw and hamels and wandy played for losing astros and he stays healthy)
3. mcdonald
4. karstens
5. correia/bedard

bullpen intact

2013, plug cole/locke/wilson/vanderhuk/reyes into 5 until morton back.
2014, i think aj will be good for one more yr, and give a hometown discount. if not, or he is used up, definitely mcD, wandy, cole, karstens, morton.
2015, cole, mcD, karstens, morton, taillon, current AAA guy/heredia

we have enough pitching and the deal helps 2012 - 14 for bargain price considering the price of lefties (think maholm 10M)

sad to lose owens, but this is where our internal scouting has to know who really projects and who is about at their ceiling now. we have several similar to owens and cain in the system and fate/injury is what separates them as none really are dominating or stand out.

as you can see from the projection to 2015, we only need one AAA guy to pan out, assuming cole and taillon produce one ace between them.

OF - cutch, marte, and jones/tabata platoon is still what i see in 13. would be nice to get an OF now, maybe we will, but if we dont, i say, lets see what marte will deliver now.
grossman, altho fun, seems like a marginal 3 or specialty 4 OF. to get a top lefty starter, you have to give some quality, plus they gave us $$$.
as you see, i still have faith that tabata will turn it around and at least be good D and strong arm (unlike some of the circus acts displayed lately) and platoon option with jones or presley. hopefully, this winter we can find a affordable longer term solution if it is available.

the big question for 2013-15 is SS and C. can mercer be the one, what about mcK. sanchez is out in my book as mcK is better than sanchez will be. darnaud cant hit, but SB wizard he needs to teach to marte, mccutch and tabata. barmes is good D, but terrible bat.