Tyler O'Neil traded to the Cardinals

[wazzu31]

It all pisses me off for the record.

I know, I'm just venting because everyone is praising Dipoto for the Segura/Haniger and Gamel deals on the radio but they are forgetting essentially every other deal he has blown and not criticizing him for his comments basically saying we are the A's.

I'm just fed up of the organization pleading poverty while they spend money to make sure there is no arena next door. Spend the money on at least a failed attempt at the playoffs. $50 million wasted on an O'Neill for Verlander is nothing for an ownership group that collectively is worth a billion dollars.

 

[Destroydacre]

Trades like this are why the M's are losers and the Cardinals are perennial contenders that win a world series every few years. The Cardinals take a one time top prospect and despite the fact that his stock has plummeted, still manage to get a #2 prospect from another organization for him. On the other hand, the M's get pennies on the dollar for guys in the same situation a la Smoak and Ackely.

 

[NWinAZ]

I know, I'm just venting because everyone is praising Dipoto for the Segura/Haniger and Gamel deals on the radio but they are forgetting essentially every other deal he has blown and not criticizing him for his comments basically saying we are the A's.

I'm just fed up of the organization pleading poverty while they spend money to make sure there is no arena next door. Spend the money on at least a failed attempt at the playoffs. $50 million wasted on an O'Neill for Verlander is nothing for an ownership group that collectively is worth a billion dollars.

I am right with you. And if he was half the GM he thinks he is, and some praise him to be, he should have made all the moves in the off season so we didn't have to worry about these redic trades right now. You would have to be an idiot to have thought that our starting rotation in February was good enough to contend for the playoffs.

1- Gallardo? He has been done for two years. 5.42 ERA last year which was 1.24 points higher than his next worse.

2- Smyly? Was coming off of injuries and a down year. 4.88 ERA which was .89 points higher than his next worse year which was his rookie year.

3- Paxton? Talent but his 121 innings last year is a high.

4- Felix? We all know the king is a mere citizen now.

5- Kuma? 4.12 ERA was a career high (hey I see a theme here) at age 35 with his arm hanging on by a thread.

And to make it even more sad, he traded a young, affordable 27 (at the time) starter with a 2.52 ERA for 2016. But his biggest demise came when he selfishly came into his own instead of taking a career nosedive like the others. How dare he! But we did get a fat DH posing as a 1B who is the next AAAA All-Star. But remember hitting is more valuable than pitching...oh wait, that was so last year.

 

[wazzu31]

I am right with you. And if he was half the GM he thinks he is, and some praise him to be, he should have made all the moves in the off season so we didn't have to worry about these redic trades right now. You would have to be an idiot to have thought that our starting rotation in February was good enough to contend for the playoffs.

1- Gallardo? He has been done for two years. 5.42 ERA last year which was 1.24 points higher than his next worse.

2- Smyly? Was coming off of injuries and a down year. 4.88 ERA which was .89 points higher than his next worse year which was his rookie year.

3- Paxton? Talent but his 121 innings last year is a high.

4- Felix? We all know the king is a mere citizen now.

5- Kuma? 4.12 ERA was a career high (hey I see a theme here) at age 35 with his arm hanging on by a thread.

And to make it even more sad, he traded a young, affordable 27 (at the time) starter with a 2.52 ERA for 2016. But his biggest demise came when he selfishly came into his own instead of taking a career nosedive like the others. How dare he! But we did get a fat DH posing as a 1B who is the next AAAA All-Star. But remember hitting is more valuable than pitching...oh wait, that was so last year.

I know with Vogelbach he sighted his analytics (which I'm not a huge fan of) because his strike zone control and his love for Karns and Smiley. It's nice and all but just because O'Neill struck out a bunch doesn't mean a power hitting OF is useless. Gamel and Haniger seem to be solid but they are going to need a power hitter once Cruz is gone and Cano's skills diminish. For power, they have Seager (who has kinda taken a step back) and Zunino. That's the future, in case Jerry missed it, his first two draft picks have gotten hurt.

I get buying Gonzales low because upside on buying a guy low but he gave up three failed prospects for Karns, how in the frick is a damaged prospect worth your second and more importantly, the only prospect who is anywhere close to the bigs. His analytics says Aaron Judge was expendable from his minor league career too, not trying to compare the two but that's just the huge flaw in only looking at players on a spreadsheet.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I see what you're saying, but you could say the same for O'Neill with his recent surge. I mean, Smaok was the next Mark Texiera too. We traded someone that seems to have a lot of potential for a guy that once had potential, but since had TJ surgery which drastically lowers his stock IMO. I really liked O'Neill, but he hasn't proved anything either so I give JeDi the benefit of the doubt.

I personally believe that O'Neill is better than his current AAA slash line indicates. He is a five tool player who I believe is actually really underrated. I expect him to hit .260 with a .340 OBP with 25-30 HRs 15-20 SB with plus defense at the peak of his career. Obviously the Mariners currently have a lot of depth in the outfield within the organization, so I would've been fine with dealing O'Neill, I just have issue with who we traded him for.

 

[seahawksfan234]

For the record, I have to assume that JD and the Mariners scouting department really sees something in Gonzales. There's no way that they make this trade unless they think Gonzales will be a lot better than we all think he's going to be.

A lot of people are talking about losing faith in the Mariners front office, trust me, these guys aren't stupid, they have to see something in Gonzales. The trade doesn't make sense to us, but they must see more Jason Vargas in Gonzales while we see Danny Hultzen.

Let's just hope the M's front office is right and we are wrong.

Although in the 10 years on CBS and on these forums I've learned that generally we are right, lol...

 

[wazzu31]

For the record, I have to assume that JD and the Mariners scouting department really sees something in Gonzales. There's no way that they make this trade unless they think Gonzales will be a lot better than we all think he's going to be.

A lot of people are talking about losing faith in the Mariners front office, trust me, these guys aren't stupid, they have to see something in Gonzales. The trade doesn't make sense to us, but they must see more Jason Vargas in Gonzales while we see Danny Hultzen.

Let's just hope the M's front office is right and we are wrong.

Although in the 10 years on CBS and on these forums I've learned that generally we are right, lol...

I'm with you to a point, but Dipoto has kind of lost alot credibility with me (like he cares I'm a fan) but he has had two deals that have worked, essentially everything else has failed thus far and that it why I can't give him a wait and see and just pass go to to he is made an ego move (which caused problems with the Angels)

The Mariners proved in the series against the Yankees they needed another starter or two, and instead of Montgomery and a starter he traded one of his best prospects for, he tosses Gallardo and Moore who should still be in the minors developing another pitch. While Vogelbach and Gonzales won't contribute a thing to the Mariners this year.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I'm with you to a point, but Dipoto has kind of lost alot credibility with me (like he cares I'm a fan) but he has had two deals that have worked, essentially everything else has failed thus far and that it why I can't give him a wait and see and just pass go to to he is made an ego move (which caused problems with the Angels)

The Mariners proved in the series against the Yankees they needed another starter or two, and instead of Montgomery and a starter he traded one of his best prospects for, he tosses Gallardo and Moore who should still be in the minors developing another pitch. While Vogelbach and Gonzales won't contribute a thing to the Mariners this year.

Can't argue with you there. I see your point.

 

[NWinAZ]

I am still not over this deal. If they couldn't get a veteran pitcher for him like Staily (not happy but less unhappy) from Marlins, why not a guy like Honeywell or Snell from Rays? Snell is a local kid with great arm and some MLB experience. Honeywell is legit MiLB guy ready to make his move up. ERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

 

[wazzu31]

I am still not over this deal. If they couldn't get a veteran pitcher for him like Staily (not happy but less unhappy) from Marlins, why not a guy like Honeywell or Snell from Rays? Snell is a local kid with great arm and some MLB experience. Honeywell is legit MiLB guy ready to make his move up. ERRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

I don't know dude, I dont know their contracts but I am so sick of Dipoto talking about controllable guys. The guy seems way to bright to not have looked at his current roster and seen the ages of his 3 highest paid players. He has a nucleus with Segura and Seager, then unproven commodities in the OF. It's just weird that he is trying to "play the long game" but then deal 5 minor leaguers for a long relief and a back end of the rotation guy.

The O'Neill also bugs me is that he is putting all of his collateral in Lewis but Lewis can't seem to stay on the field while O'Neill has dominated every level he has been at and for the past month was one of the most dangerous AAA hitters.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I'm with ya'll on the frustration...

It just seems like such a lopsided deal on the surface that I have to assume that the Mariners have them graded a lot higher than we, or any mainstream outlets do. That or perhaps they don't hold O'Neill in the same regard that we do.

Only time will tell, because on the surface this just seems like a terrible fucking move. My only explanation is that they have a man-crush on Gonzales for some reason.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I don't know dude, I dont know their contracts but I am so sick of Dipoto talking about controllable guys. The guy seems way to bright to not have looked at his current roster and seen the ages of his 3 highest paid players. He has a nucleus with Segura and Seager, then unproven commodities in the OF. It's just weird that he is trying to "play the long game" but then deal 5 minor leaguers for a long relief and a back end of the rotation guy.

The O'Neill also bugs me is that he is putting all of his collateral in Lewis but Lewis can't seem to stay on the field while O'Neill has dominated every level he has been at and for the past month was one of the most dangerous AAA hitters.

I believe AZ brought this up in another thread and it's a really good point. Generally Lewis is rated above O'Neill, but I think O'Neill's slow start was an aberration and overall I believe O'Neill is a safer prospect who is closer to the majors, which should give him added value.

 

[wazzu31]

I'm with ya'll on the frustration...

It just seems like such a lopsided deal on the surface that I have to assume that the Mariners have them graded a lot higher than we, or any mainstream outlets do. That or perhaps they don't hold O'Neill in the same regard that we do.

Only time will tell, because on the surface this just seems like a terrible fucking move. My only explanation is that they have a man-crush on Gonzales for some reason.

Without question Dipoto didnt value O'Neill like all the "experts" do, or what fans did.

It's just infuriating to me because with O'Neill.. IMO if a major league GM can't flip his third best prospect for anything other than a casted off former prospect then he shouldn't be running a professional franchise. Unless he is flipping Gonzales for something before the deadline then I completely question whether Dipoto is here to make the Mariners win or just collecting a check while using the organization as a guinea pig to prove the Angels and baseball that his way is right and everyone else is wrong.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Without question Dipoto didnt value O'Neill like all the "experts" do, or what fans did.

It's just infuriating to me because with O'Neill.. IMO if a major league GM can't flip his third best prospect for anything other than a casted off former prospect then he shouldn't be running a professional franchise. Unless he is flipping Gonzales for something before the deadline then I completely question whether Dipoto is here to make the Mariners win or just collecting a check while using the organization as a guinea pig to prove the Angels and baseball that his way is right and everyone else is wrong.

I agree with you but I think the "controllable" thing is so that he can use financial resources on free agent signings and retention of players who prove themselves within the organization. I don't think it has to do with him just looking to cash a check.

 

[NWinAZ]

I agree with you but I think the "controllable" thing is so that he can use financial resources on free agent signings and retention of players who prove themselves within the organization. I don't think it has to do with him just looking to cash a check.

"Controllable" and "Trading from a position of strength" are the two greatest BS phrases in baseball. Controllable means nothing with potential attached to it. They can control me for the next decade and a great value if they want, but I won't help one bit. And TFAPOS is a fallacy. One injury, one nosedive in talent, one wrong move and you no longer have strength. Heredia, Haniger, Gamel, and Dyson have all taken dives over the last couple months and none are locks for the future. Only Gamel has shown signs of bouncing back. Martin is almost assurably gone after this year and Powell is one more failed test away from banned. That means who is on deck?

 

[wazzu31]

I can understand wanting controllable players and all, but if that is the philosophy of a GM in an uncapped league then he needs to be on a bottom feeder market team. Having control is sweet but Oakland and Tampa have proven you cannot win titles with controllable guys. I'd say KC but Dipoto is never going to have the time to tear everything down the way they did and zero chance they go the Astros route. What the Astros has done is damn near mathematically impossible on hitting on essentially every pick. He's not off to an Astros type start where his first two first round picks have gotten hurt so early into their careers.

 

[ehwq]

His bomb off Kershaw. Good times.

 

[NWinAZ]

His bomb off Kershaw. Good times.

I was at that game. 1st row behind the M's dugout. Good times indeed.

 

[seahawksfan234]

His bomb off Kershaw. Good times.

I'm sure the Cardinals will enjoy seeing that in the future.

Meanwhile we have "maybe" Jason Vargas in return.

 

[wazzu31]

I still hate the trade after listening to why the organization didn't like Petersen. Everything anyone outside of Jerry speaks about O'Neill is his amazing work ethic and his goal always to maximize every ounce of skill he has since he wasn't gifted any real one aspect outside power that would've made him a great prospect. Much like Altuve.