Tyler O'Neil traded to the Cardinals

[wazzu31]

I usually agree with you, but I can't on this one.

1- Gamel has played well for 73 games but also has dropped .28 points in average in the last 3 weeks or so.
2- Haniger has played 50 games and has dropped .80 points in average since returning.
3- Miranda is a solid #4, decent #3.

So I think it is way too early to anoint Haniger and Gamel as gems after less than half a season for each. Ackley hit at one time as well remember. I think the Miranda deal was his best work considering what Miranda has provided plus losing Wiley's noodle arm and huge contract. Just my opinion of course and I respect yours as well.

I'm not trying to be negative about Dipoto but it's hard to say you have total faith in him because he has sucked on some deals too, the Trumbo deal and the Montgomery deal as well. Let's not forget also that since Atlanta switched Jackson back to catcher he has looked like a top prospect as well.

I just can't say I have more than 50% faith in him right now. Even if O'Neill had no role on the team, unless ownership opens up the wallet, they are going to have to trade to somehow come up with an ace and to make up for the production that will be lost when Cruz leaves and Cano loses skill.

 

[Mariners_44]

I usually agree with you, but I can't on this one.

1- Gamel has played well for 73 games but also has dropped .28 points in average in the last 3 weeks or so.
2- Haniger has played 50 games and has dropped .80 points in average since returning.
3- Miranda is a solid #4, decent #3.

So I think it is way too early to anoint Haniger and Gamel as gems after less than half a season for each. Ackley hit at one time as well remember. I think the Miranda deal was his best work considering what Miranda has provided plus losing Wiley's noodle arm and huge contract. Just my opinion of course and I respect yours as well.

I see what you're saying, but you could say the same for O'Neill with his recent surge. I mean, Smaok was the next Mark Texiera too. We traded someone that seems to have a lot of potential for a guy that once had potential, but since had TJ surgery which drastically lowers his stock IMO. I really liked O'Neill, but he hasn't proved anything either so I give JeDi the benefit of the doubt.

 

[NWinAZ]

I see what you're saying, but you could say the same for O'Neill with his recent surge. I mean, Smaok was the next Mark Texiera too. We traded someone that seems to have a lot of potential for a guy that once had potential, but since had TJ surgery which drastically lowers his stock IMO. I really liked O'Neill, but he hasn't proved anything either so I give JeDi the benefit of the doubt.

Smoak was never the next Teixeira. He never did a thing in the majors to even remotely give him Tex status.

"We traded someone that seems to have a lot of potential for a guy that once had potential, but since had TJ surgery which drastically lowers his stock"

That is the whole key. Once had and with a broken wing. Doesn't scream potential and the experts that evaluate minor leagues list him as a back end starter at best or long reliever IF he even stays healthy. If they traded him for a ready to go minor leaguer with proven success, I could live with it. If they got a guy like Glasnow from Pirates, I could understand this move. But an injured pitcher who isn't even ready to contribute on a playoff run, then why do it?

 

[wazzu31]

I see what you're saying, but you could say the same for O'Neill with his recent surge. I mean, Smaok was the next Mark Texiera too. We traded someone that seems to have a lot of potential for a guy that once had potential, but since had TJ surgery which drastically lowers his stock IMO. I really liked O'Neill, but he hasn't proved anything either so I give JeDi the benefit of the doubt.

There is also a big difference between Smoak and O'Neill (I'll admit I am bias because I really like the guy) but Smoak stunk it up and was sent back down by the Rangers before being dealt to Seattle.

 

[Cloud]

Why the fuck do you do this trade when there is no immediate help? Do they plan on calling Gonzales up in September or something? This trade is stupid and it could've been done the offseason if "under control through 2023" is that important. SMFH

 

[wazzu31]

Why the fuck do you do this trade when there is no immediate help? Do they plan on calling Gonzales up in September or something? This trade is stupid and it could've been done the offseason if "under control through 2023" is that important. SMFH

That's my thing that I'm hung up on. I'd still hate this deal in the off season but it makes no sense to send your 2 or 3 best prospect and don't help your team win now and just gives you a possible 4th or 5th starter for the future.

I just hate that he IMO royally screwed the future as he essentially needs to hit big on every draft pick he has made. If Lewis doesn't pan out then Jerry just dug his own grave.

 

[Mariners_44]

Smoak was never the next Teixeira. He never did a thing in the majors to even remotely give him Tex status.

"We traded someone that seems to have a lot of potential for a guy that once had potential, but since had TJ surgery which drastically lowers his stock"

That is the whole key. Once had and with a broken wing. Doesn't scream potential and the experts that evaluate minor leagues list him as a back end starter at best or long reliever IF he even stays healthy. If they traded him for a ready to go minor leaguer with proven success, I could live with it. If they got a guy like Glasnow from Pirates, I could understand this move. But an injured pitcher who isn't even ready to contribute on a playoff run, then why do it?

I guess that's something I was told by a friend that lives in Frisco, TX. He has season tickets to the AAA team for the Rangers and watched Smoak coming up. He told me that he was thought of as the next Texiera at the time, and the fact that he was the center piece of a trade for Cliff Lee seemed to prove it. Anyways, I'm not defending the trade in the sense that I feel it is a great or even good deal. I feel that O'Neill absolutely had better value than what we got back, BUT also I don't feel he was guaranteed to be anything in the end either. I guess I'm just hoping JeDi knows more than me so I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I just want to know we have someone that knows what the hell is doing for once!

 

[NWinAZ]

I guess that's something I was told by a friend that lives in Frisco, TX. He has season tickets to the AAA team for the Rangers and watched Smoak coming up. He told me that he was thought of as the next Texiera at the time, and the fact that he was the center piece of a trade for Cliff Lee seemed to prove it.

That was the word back then, but it was never true. First off he never put up those kind of numbers and second off would they really trade the next Teixeira for a Lee rental? They knew better.

 

[Mariners_44]

That was the word back then, but it was never true. First off he never put up those kind of numbers and second off would they really trade the next Teixeira for a Lee rental? They knew better.

Fare enough.

I just know he never panned out, and he had more buzz than Tyler O'Neill.

I'm just not trying to put much stock in either player to be honest. I agree that O'Neill should have had more value than what we got in return, but should he have? Only the league knows the reality of his value, and in most articles Tyler O'Neill didn't come across as a big trade chip; at least outside of Seattle.

 

[PolarVortex]

Trade makes no sense. Why was Dipoto suddenly in such a big hurry to get rid of this guy? We are never going to know, but that's what he did. He got rid of him. He didn't really trade him. What we got back is no where near equal value. Dipoto literally got rid of O'Neill.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I think the problem with JD and his evaluating of pitching is that he must compare them to him...and that is not a good thing.

Here are the SP's Dipoto has acquired via trade.

1- Marco Gonzales
2- Chase De Jong
3- Drew Smyly
4- Yovani Gallardo
5- Chris Heston
6- Rob Whalen
7- Max Povse
8- Zac Curtis
9- Ariel Miranda
10- Zach Lee

Talk about blue-light specials. Every one was on the down slide before getting them.

Hey don't forget Nathan "5 inning" Karns. Helped us all remember the great Bedard days.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Are you fucking kidding me!? O'Neill was the ONE guy I wanted us to keep and instead we got some whatever pitcher who just had TJ surgery.

Maybe instead of focusing on trading their soon to be decent prospects they should focus on not shitting the bed once they get to .500.

 

[wazzu31]

Are you fucking kidding me!? O'Neill was the ONE guy I wanted us to keep and instead we got some whatever pitcher who just had TJ surgery.

Maybe instead of focusing on trading their soon to be decent prospects they should focus on not shitting the bed once they get to .500.

I really wanted to see him too, if Haniger Gamel and Heredia are the future OF until Lewis is ready then they are missing power and that is what O'Neill has and will translate to the bigs.

Maybe he flames out and goes Zunino with his average but I'm just not understanding Dipoto's thought of Gamel, Haniger and Heredia are locks as the future. I can understand Gamel since he has sustained some success but in no way should he be giving away prospects because of Heredia and Haniger unless he is hitting 2nd.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I really wanted to see him too, if Haniger Gamel and Heredia are the future OF until Lewis is ready then they are missing power and that is what O'Neill has and will translate to the bigs.

Maybe he flames out and goes Zunino with his average but I'm just not understanding Dipoto's thought of Gamel, Haniger and Heredia are locks as the future. I can understand Gamel since he has sustained some success but in no way should he be giving away prospects because of Heredia and Haniger unless he is hitting 2nd.

I agree entirely. I mean I think we're saying the same thing.. it was a complete F trade by the Ms. I already quoted O'Neill as being one of the reasons we afforded to have the luxury to trade Hernandez.

Ugh, this team is so pathetic. The best thing that could happen is all the Ms owners spontaneously combust.

 

[unlvmariners]

I keep trying to find some positives from this. If Gonzales becomes a better pitcher than his projections then its probably a win, but its unlikely.

One of the things that pisses me off the most about this is the amount of bull shit that gets spewed out of Dip's mouth. First he says Mariners are buyers, then uses a top prospect to get a player that won't help us this season WTF dude. Then Dip tries to convince fans that this trade is good by using phrases like, "high character" "strong pitching pedigree" "quality athlete" what I would rather hear when trading a top prospect is "his fastball is un fucking hittable and his slider will make hitters shit their pants".

 

[SeattleCoug]

I keep trying to find some positives from this. If Gonzales becomes a better pitcher than his projections then its probably a win, but its unlikely.

One of the things that pisses me off the most about this is the amount of bull shit that gets spewed out of Dip's mouth. First he says Mariners are buyers, then uses a top prospect to get a player that won't help us this season WTF dude. Then Dip tries to convince fans that this trade is good by using phrases like, "high character" "strong pitching pedigree" "quality athlete" what I would rather hear when trading a top prospect is "his fastball is un fucking hittable and his slider will make hitters shit their pants".

I think what's tough is every move is "well maybe it helps this year but it will really help in the future". The Vogelbach Montgomery swap comes to mind. I just want a direction. Shit or get off the pot for a lack of better words.

 

[NWinAZ]

Then Dip tries to convince fans that this trade is good by using phrases like, "high character" "strong pitching pedigree" "quality athlete" what I would rather hear when trading a top prospect is "his fastball is un fucking hittable and his slider will make hitters shit their pants".

Honestly, that quote pissed me off when I read it yesterday. I don't flippen care if he signs Charles Manson or OJ Simpson if they can stay healthy and blow batters away. I am not following them to get my character grove on.

 

[NWinAZ]

Hey don't forget Nathan "5 inning" Karns. Helped us all remember the great Bedard days.

Here is the quote from JD right after the trade:

"As I said when I was hired, we need to get more flexible, more athletic and build pitching depth," Dipoto said in a press release. "This trade allows us to do all three. Powell brings speed, defense and on-base percentage to the table, and could be ready to help us as soon as 2016, while Karns and Riefenhauser give us young, but experienced, pitching options."

------------------------------

Karns - Given a handful of starts, then moved to the pen for some reason, and then DL'd.
Riefenhauser - Gone before we blinked.
Powell - 2016? It is almost August of 2017 and he is a bit actor in this play.

So ya, I forgot to include Karns and he should be #1 on that list of failed SP's obtained by JD. Again, I think he uses his ability, or lack thereof, as the pitching barometer.

 

[wazzu31]

Honestly, that quote pissed me off when I read it yesterday. I don't flippen care if he signs Charles Manson or OJ Simpson if they can stay healthy and blow batters away. I am not following them to get my character grove on.

I get all those quotes kids you guys off, but the biggest one that pisses me off and has made me hate this trade is that Gonzales is under team control until 2023. You traded your 2nd best prospect for a guy you don't have to pay until 2023. That's is when you sell a guy like Cruz or Seager for is for controllable guys.

I'm truly scared to death what Dipoto will ask for in the offseason for Paxton

 

[NWinAZ]

I get all those quotes kids you guys off, but the biggest one that pisses me off and has made me hate this trade is that Gonzales is under team control until 2023. You traded your 2nd best prospect for a guy you don't have to pay until 2023. That's is when you sell a guy like Cruz or Seager for is for controllable guys.

I'm truly scared to death what Dipoto will ask for in the offseason for Paxton

It all pisses me off for the record.