Two failures continue to haunt this team

[duke1861]

The same two problems harm this team over and over again and they both could have and should have been addressed.

1. Address the OLine. Monty and Chester are sub-standard players and are getting RG3 killed. We failed to address the interior OLine and it haunts us nearly every game. You can talk about he cap penalty and make other excuses but Shanahan has had 4 years to address it and he hasn't.

2. Fire Haslett. Do I really need to go in to more detail? We literally have the worst defense in the NFL and continue to be a terrible unit on the field. Haslett is not who we need as a DC. It concerns me that Shanahan doesn't see this and refuses to do the right thing here.

I am disappointed in this team and tired of supporting mediocrity. This organization refuses to address simple holes on the team and then wonders why they can't win games. The Vikings are a terrible team running a High School offense and they just beat us. Does anyone need anyone evidence? Shanahan's pride is hurting this organization.

And for those defending the chronic poor play of the OLine.....do yourself a favor and stop. The OLine stinks and they can't stop bull rushes or simple stunts.

 

[Mustard Tiger]

I agree but I would put fire Haslett as #1. In surrendering 34 points to the 1-7 Ponder led Vikings, Haslett should be let go before the trip home. Four years and our D continues to be utter garbage....the laughing stock of the NFL. How many games are we forced to sit through where the other team's players set personal bests or team records? Have never caught a TD pass...play the Redskins, have never thrown for over 400 yards...play the Redskins, haven't blocked a FG since 2002....it goes on and on. I know the last one is special teams but you get the idea. This is getting very old and I'm beginning to think Haslett must have some dirt or some compromising photos of Snyder. How does he keep his job? Our Teflon D coordinator!

 

[gkekoa]

How did they score so many point but only gain 300 yards? The game is much easier when you have to drive only 50 yards.

We were up 27-14 and then:

We gave up a long drive for a TD. It happens.

Then we went 3 and out. I knew we were going to give up a TD here because that can't happen. It especially can't happen when our STs gives up a 20 yard return and then Young is a dumb ass and gets a 15 yard penalty on top of it. They started on our 41.

Our next offensive possession is the back to back sacks up the middle. Where is the hot read?

Rocca's punt out of bounds at the 50 but we only give up a FG.

Then we get another 3 and out, punt and a 14 yard return. Their worst field position since their TD drive that started the comeback...their 38 yard line.


If you want to put this all on the defense, who was held all night and not a single hold was called, go ahead. You're wrong but go ahead. I'm not saying the defense played great because there is plenty of blame to go around. 300 yards of total offense allowed is more than good enough to win.

As a matter of fact, 307 yards given up last night would have been 4th best in the NFL. Only Houston, Seattle, and Carolina average better than that. You will notice, Houston's STs sucks too and that is why they are losing (that and TDs thrown to the wrong team).

 

[Ritzarmy]

We will need a new QB soon if we don't fix that O-Line. RG3 took some shots on his legs and also took some shots while he dove forward instead of sliding. We all new coming into the season our secondary would be horrible and so far we all have been correct.
1. Fix secondary this includes firing Haslett
2. Fix the O-Line
3. Get some LB help
4. Get some WR help
5. Repeat steps 1 & 2 again

 

[j_y19]

Here is a telling stat. Our ILBs combined for a total of 5 tackles. In a 3-4, the ILBs are supposed to be the tackling machines. The DL takes up blockers to free the ILBs up. On the flip side, Doughty and Hall combined for a total of 23 tackles. What does this tell you?

 

[j_y19]

We will need a new QB soon if we don't fix that O-Line. RG3 took some shots on his legs and also took some shots while he dove forward instead of sliding. We all new coming into the season our secondary would be horrible and so far we all have been correct.
1. Fix secondary this includes firing Haslett
2. Fix the O-Line
3. Get some LB help
4. Get some WR help
5. Repeat steps 1 & 2 again

Ritz, I don't think the secondary is as bad as everyone claims. They have played much better the last 4 games. We do need a legitimate FS, but they played well last night. They didn't give up any big plays. The issue was we got away from man/press coverage and went to a zone for much of the second half. With our LB play, the middle is always soft in our zone defense. TEs have a field day against us. I really believe that our ILB play is more of a liability at this point than our secondary. And our pass rush is anemic at best. We have a very tough decision to make on Rak. He is playing no where near the level that he was his first 2 years here.

Also, our WR play is not that bad. Could we use a consistent deep threat? Yes. But Hank has been playing much better. He had 5 catches last night for 60+ yards. He has become a consistent possession receiver. Garcon is playing at an all pro level. Morgan, Moss and Robinson can all leave and need to be replaced.

 

[skinz2winz]

Here is a telling stat. Our ILBs combined for a total of 5 tackles. In a 3-4, the ILBs are supposed to be the tackling machines. The DL takes up blockers to free the ILBs up. On the flip side, Doughty and Hall combined for a total of 23 tackles. What does this tell you?

The same thing I have been saying for the whole season, Fletcher is done and Riley is a backup on other teams. Right now, Orakpo, Kerrigan, Hall, Merriwether & maybe Coefield start for other teams. We are playing with less than a full deck and toss in a less than average defensive coordinator and we are what we are on defense. Not very good!

 

[deanpet21]

Yes this team needs ILB;s but Rak is showing that he is nothing more than an avg player. Think about this, everyone is blaming this defense all year but we had 4 chances to tie the game from the 5 yard line and didn't get it done. Can someone explain to me the 1st down draw to Helu with no timeouts left? The Vikes actually called timeout to safe our ass on that horrible call.

 

[gkekoa]

The ILBs didn't get as many tackles last night because Minnesota only ran Peterson 20 times and our DL had 10 tackles. If the runner doesn't make it to the LBs, they can't get tackles.

I do believe LFB has lost a lot of steps but I disagree with people who think Riley isn't a starter in this league.

 

[skinsdad62]

The same two problems harm this team over and over again and they both could have and should have been addressed.

1. Address the OLine. Monty and Chester are sub-standard players and are getting RG3 killed. We failed to address the interior OLine and it haunts us nearly every game. You can talk about he cap penalty and make other excuses but Shanahan has had 4 years to address it and he hasn't.

2. Fire Haslett. Do I really need to go in to more detail? We literally have the worst defense in the NFL and continue to be a terrible unit on the field. Haslett is not who we need as a DC. It concerns me that Shanahan doesn't see this and refuses to do the right thing here.

I am disappointed in this team and tired of supporting mediocrity. This organization refuses to address simple holes on the team and then wonders why they can't win games. The Vikings are a terrible team running a High School offense and they just beat us. Does anyone need anyone evidence? Shanahan's pride is hurting this organ

And for those defending the chronic poor play of the OLine.....do yourself a favor and stop. The OLine stinks and they can't stop bull rushes or simple stunts.

man i get sick and tired of hearing about how we havent tried to address our o/line .

3 draft picks in the 1st draft , 1 in the 2nd draft and 3 more in the 3rd draft . that is 7 picks and quite a few FA's

also remember this o/line has blocked for the 5th ranked offense over 2 years . until last nite RG3 had been sacked a mere 14 times (amongst the lowest in the nfl ) while being the 1st ranked rushing team last season and in the top 5 this year

so perhaps they are better then you think and your anger over last nite clouds your judgement that o/lin dominated the 1st half .

our issues are more serious on defense . we need a couple of tall physical CBs , and a couple of more safeties with the same attributes we need an ILB and perhaps 2 de's

now i dont discount that 4 skins o/lineman could be changed but every good qb in this league has exposed our defensive secondary our slow ILB and our DE's in the run game

 

[Mustard Tiger]

You are right skinsdad, our offense has some issues, but we scored 27 points and it could have been 30 but we needed the TD. Special teams aside, the D is the real issue. The holes you pointed out need to be addressed. Also it wouldn't be a post by the mustard tiger unless I also pointed out you also have to can Haslett!

 

[j_y19]

man i get sick and tired of hearing about how we havent tried to address our o/line .

3 draft picks in the 1st draft , 1 in the 2nd draft and 3 more in the 3rd draft . that is 7 picks and quite a few FA's

also remember this o/line has blocked for the 5th ranked offense over 2 years . until last nite RG3 had been sacked a mere 14 times (amongst the lowest in the nfl ) while being the 1st ranked rushing team last season and in the top 5 this year

so perhaps they are better then you think and your anger over last nite clouds your judgement that o/lin dominated the 1st half .

our issues are more serious on defense . we need a couple of tall physical CBs , and a couple of more safeties with the same attributes we need an ILB and perhaps 2 de's

now i dont discount that 4 skins o/lineman could be changed but every good qb in this league has exposed our defensive secondary our slow ILB and our DE's in the run game

Dad, you are right and you are wrong. We have done things to address the OL. We drafted OL and are working them through the process. However, don't b mislead by stats like they are blockers for the 5th ranked offense or that we are one of the better team in not giving up sacks. Those stats are illusions. If we didn't have RG3 as our QB and Morris as our RB, those numbers would be much worse. RG3 avoids many sacks that other QBs would take. And Morris is just a beast that has turned many broken running plays into gains, sometimes but gains. SO those 2 guys have overcome some of the inherent weaknesses of our OL.

We will not be replacing 4 OL this off season. We might be replacing 2, however. As hard as its is to believe, Plumbus is actually having an OK year and is by no means our weak link on our OL anymore. Our weak link is right up the middle. Montgomery, chester, Lichtensteiger. 2 of these must be replaced this year of RG3 will not make it our of his rookie contract.

 

[duke1861]

man i get sick and tired of hearing about how we havent tried to address our o/line .

3 draft picks in the 1st draft , 1 in the 2nd draft and 3 more in the 3rd draft . that is 7 picks and quite a few FA's

also remember this o/line has blocked for the 5th ranked offense over 2 years . until last nite RG3 had been sacked a mere 14 times (amongst the lowest in the nfl ) while being the 1st ranked rushing team last season and in the top 5 this year

so perhaps they are better then you think and your anger over last nite clouds your judgement that o/lin dominated the 1st half .

our issues are more serious on defense . we need a couple of tall physical CBs , and a couple of more safeties with the same attributes we need an ILB and perhaps 2 de's

now i dont discount that 4 skins o/lineman could be changed but every good qb in this league has exposed our defensive secondary our slow ILB and our DE's in the run game

I don't care how many draft picks we throw at it or how many free agents we sign to play OLine....if they don't get the job done, then we HAVE NOT addressed it. The fact that RG3 is under siege constantly and he is being knocked down on nearly every pass play indicates that we have seriously problems. Mediocre DLines get pressure at will on him. We have the worst interior OLine in the NFL. When the game was on the line, the OLine choked multiple times and played like matadors, not OLinemen. Botton line is that RG3 will not make it out of his rookie contract if he is getting destroyed.

The defense is terrible period. Coaching and lack of talent are the culprits of course. We need to can Haslett and bring in more talent. I think we will do both but the fact we did not get rid of Haslett last offseason is troubling.

We do need a minimum of 4 new starters on defense (CB, Strong Safety, ILB and DE). Add that to C, RG and WR and we have our work cut out for us don't we. My original post holds true Skinsdad, we failed to address OLine and fire Haslett and those are the two reasons we are losing games. Special Teams comes in third of course.

 

[skinsdad62]

I don't care how many draft picks we throw at it or how many free agents we sign to play OLine....if they don't get the job done, then we HAVE NOT addressed it. The fact that RG3 is under siege constantly and he is being knocked down on nearly every pass play indicates that we have seriously problems. Mediocre DLines get pressure at will on him. We have the worst interior OLine in the NFL. When the game was on the line, the OLine choked multiple times and played like matadors, not OLinemen. Botton line is that RG3 will not make it out of his rookie contract if he is getting destroyed.

The defense is terrible period. Coaching and lack of talent are the culprits of course. We need to can Haslett and bring in more talent. I think we will do both but the fact we did not get rid of Haslett last offseason is troubling.

We do need a minimum of 4 new starters on defense (CB, Strong Safety, ILB and DE). Add that to C, RG and WR and we have our work cut out for us don't we. My original post holds true Skinsdad, we failed to address OLine and fire Haslett and those are the two reasons we are losing games. Special Teams comes in third of course.

i disagree . our defense needs more attention then our offense .

last season AM was a product of Rg3 and now he drives the team

i am sorry but our skill guys dont do jack without the o/line playing well . we have an avg o/line and when we play to its strengths it can do well . you said that yourself joy-19 . you advocated more "moving pockets .

did you see the holes the o/line provided for morris and helu ? yes i agree with you that we could use some help there but come one . we have 3 guys in the interior and a RT that has been maligned for 2 years so by my count we have 4 guys to replace

our team isnt winning because our defense is at the bottom and has been for the last 4 years . THAT needs addressing not the 5th overall offense the past 2 seasons which you both routinely dismiss.

the offense with our starting qb at or near 100% is formidable . our defense isnt

 

[gkekoa]

Dad, you are right and you are wrong. We have done things to address the OL. We drafted OL and are working them through the process. However, don't b mislead by stats like they are blockers for the 5th ranked offense or that we are one of the better team in not giving up sacks. Those stats are illusions. If we didn't have RG3 as our QB and Morris as our RB, those numbers would be much worse. RG3 avoids many sacks that other QBs would take. And Morris is just a beast that has turned many broken running plays into gains, sometimes but gains. SO those 2 guys have overcome some of the inherent weaknesses of our OL.

We will not be replacing 4 OL this off season. We might be replacing 2, however. As hard as its is to believe, Plumbus is actually having an OK year and is by no means our weak link on our OL anymore. Our weak link is right up the middle. Montgomery, chester, Lichtensteiger. 2 of these must be replaced this year of RG3 will not make it our of his rookie contract.

You get players and draft players that compliment each other. You state the our OL is only good because RG3 and Morris are in the backfield...you are right. But they compliment each other.

 

[j_y19]

You get players and draft players that compliment each other. You state the our OL is only good because RG3 and Morris are in the backfield...you are right. But they compliment each other.

In the running game, absolutely. In pocket pass protection, not at all. RG3 is inexperienced and our interior OL is small and weak.

 

[gkekoa]

Yes but you don't sacrifice your strength in running for big bodies.

Also, how much of that is pass protection calls on the interior? How much of it is on lack of recognition?

 

[skinsdad62]

In the running game, absolutely. In pocket pass protection, not at all. RG3 is inexperienced and our interior OL is small and weak.

i saw on 2 sacks by williams where the RB failed to get a chip we they needed too

as for skinszwinz ,the team has put resources into the o/line . what would you have done that was better ?

we had no cap space and a ton of holes

 

[j_y19]

Yes but you don't sacrifice your strength in running for big bodies.

Also, how much of that is pass protection calls on the interior? How much of it is on lack of recognition?

Actually, I agree to an extent. What you need to find are agile OL that can still pass protect. Not necessarily and easy endeavor. But until you do, you can't continue to try and turn this offense into a drop back, pocket passing offense. It is insane to continue to do the same thing and expect different results. Every team we play now knows our weaknesses. It is max pressure right up the middle. Monty/Chester/Licht do not handle this well at all. Moreover, RG3 doesn't handle pressure right in his face well. He isn't experienced enough yet to recognize presnap what is happening and audible out or call a hot read. When the pressure comes, he tends to back pedal instead of just getting the hell out of the pocket. Then, worst of all, he tends to hang onto the ball way too long, trying to make a play. This leads to either a last second weak attempt to throw the ball away, a forced pass that has been intercepted in the past, or a hard hit on him.

But this goes to play calling. RG3 is talented and smart enough that with experience and a preseason, he can hone this skill set. And maybe this off season we can fill one or two of these weak holes on our OL. But until we do, stop with the overuse of the 7 step drop. If you know they are blitzing all out up the middle, how about a screen pass? How about a boot leg? How about a 3 step drop and hit one of the receivers that mast be in 1 on 1 coverage

 

[gkekoa]

They aren't trying to create a drop back offense. This is still a run-first team.

I do agree that the play-calling forgets this.

Some has to go on RG3 as well. He has to notice a blitz, where ever it is coming from. If it's coming up the middle, he should know the middle will be open. If it's coming off the edges, he has to see the hot route. He should also be able to see it coming and outrun it...because he is RG3.