Trout vs Cabrera

[Wazmankg]

He had an .883 OPS the last 2 months of last season, with 12 HR, 18 steals, and 49 runs...and 32 of the Angels last 58 games last year were vs the top 4 staffs in the AL (at least going by ERA), so he did have a tough schedule down the stretch and still hit relatively well.

It's not as if he hit .230 or something.

You're the one who asked if we hold Miggy to the same standard. I just told you why not... the torn groin he played through. I guess you're counting Trout's 7 for 13 in Oct. after the Angels were eliminated huh ? What's the point of this thread anyway ?

 

[StanMarsh51]

You're the one who asked if we hold Miggy to the same standard. I just told you why not... the torn groin he played through. I guess you're counting Trout's 7 for 13 in Oct. after the Angels were eliminated huh ? What's the point of this thread anyway ?

And how much of a discount do we give him for playing hurt?

My point is to argue the potential hypocrisy here....Trout gets held against him his final 2 months of 2013, (which weren't subpar, so I'd already say you're underrating him there), where other certain other players aren't.

Even if Cabrera were fully healthy, played, and posted a .790 OPS in Sept, do you think that gets held against him, or are the people that claimed Trout was 'subpar' towards the end of last season looking the other way when it comes to Miggy?

 

[Wazmankg]

And how much of a discount do we give him for playing hurt?

A lot. He had no lower body. He couldn't run.

My point is to argue the potential hypocrisy here....Trout gets held against him his final 2 months of 2013, (which weren't subpar, so I'd already say you're underrating him there), where other certain other players aren't.

Miggy was hurt. He had a torn groin he played through. Again what was Trout's excuse and his Aug/Sept numbers most certainly were sub par by MVP standards ? How can you compare a player who played through a disabling injury to one who hasn't as if there was no difference ?

Even if Cabrera were fully healthy, played, and posted a .790 OPS in Sept, do you think that gets held against him, or are the people that claimed Trout was 'subpar' towards the end of last season looking the other way when it comes to Miggy?

So now you're just going to make stuff up...pull straw men out of thin air to burn em down. I see. You're just trolling. Carry on.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

To be MVP, team stats are a factor(not saying they are the deciding factor). A team that makes the playoffs in any MVP race that is close should always go to the playoff team player-again that is if there is no clear winner... As the angels did not make the playoffs last season or this season it should hurt trout, and tigers making it should help miggy...

To me there are 4 factors to be MVP: in order of importance
1. Season stats
2. defensive stats
3. making the playoffs
4. stats down the stretch.

 

[dougplayer]

did you check Miggys numbers before those last 5 weeks??

he was on pace to have his best year. He was on fire.

He was hurt. Most would have been on the DL.
I cant believe you cant see this. He would have had his best year!!
he wouldn't have caught davis for HRs (maybe)

 

[navamind]

Even with the injury, this was still arguably Miggy's best year.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

did you check Miggys numbers before those last 5 weeks??

he was on pace to have his best year. He was on fire.

He was hurt. Most would have been on the DL.
I cant believe you cant see this. He would have had his best year!!
he wouldn't have caught davis for HRs (maybe)

Dont use his being hurt as an excuse!!! injuries should not ever help or hurt someone's mvp campaign... He either plays or doesnt... but of course his stats will worsen due to suckiness during injury...

 

[dougplayer]

its true.

he still helped his team win.
last year. trout just stopped. his last 7 weeks.

with out injury..Miggy gets handed the MVP BEFORE the play offseven start..he season was that good BEFORE he got gurt

 

[dougplayer]

Trout is good. how valuable is he?

how many times has his team been in the play offs?

how many games has his team even been close to the play offs?
Xactly

 

[broncosmitty]

No, this isn't another debate about who should've won the MVP last year...

Looking through his stats earlier today, I was surprised to see Cabrera's numbers the past 5 weeks of the season (I know he was hurt, but didn't think they'd be that bad).

This made me then think of the arguments against Trout when it came to last year's MVP voting....quite a few on here who thought Cabrera was the MVP last year used the 'Trout didn't perform like an MVP down the stretch' as one of the knocks against him (I'm not naming names, but I do have a good memory and do remember a few who did argue that).

So in 2013, when Cabrera's September was worse than Trout's 2012 September, does the same argument apply as an argument against Cabrera's 2013 MVP case?

It definitely opens the door. So does the way Detroit managed to keep winning when Cabrera didn't play. (Cleveland series at The Jake in particular). I haven't read past your initial post yet. But Im glad you brought up the question. I've talked about it a lot the past couple months. But sure as hell wasn't going to be the one to bring it up on here. (Counter point:The VALUE portion of MVP. Without Cabrera, no playoffs? With Davis, no playoffs)

 

[broncosmitty]

Even with the injury, this was still arguably Miggy's best year.

That's the thing. As a hitter, he's continued to improve. Up until his injury(injuries really, it seemed to move from back, to ribs/abdomen, to groin/hips/legs.) he didn't just have a great streak or three. He destroyed pitching, all season. Each year, in Detroit, he has improved himself as far as quality of ABs. He's become more selective. And just prior to the body becoming an issue, he had seemingly began baiting pitchers into giving him what he wanted. Missing badly on pitches early in the count and absolutely crushing the same pitch, or same location, later in the at bat. It was a magical season he was having. And was truely at a whole other level as a hitter. For the games sake, fans should hope he returns to physical form. Hitters with that kind of ability should be enjoyed by baseball fans everywhere.

 

[broncosmitty]

Am I in the minority for assuming it will go Miggy, Davis, Trout? I understand how people would like it to go, Im just saying how I assume it will go.

 

[da55bums]

wow, Tigers fans get defensive, and it doesn't matter who posts....love the counterpoint used by Tigers fans..."your a troll""your trolling""your just a hater"....all credible and strong points thoroughly strengthing any discussion...

Fact - Tigers fans discredited Trout last year because what his statistics were over the last 6 weeks of the season and stated "repeatly" by numberous tiger fans..."You can't give an MVP to guy who sucks down the stretch when it counts the most"

Fact II - Miggy sucked (injuried or not) the last 6 weeks of the season this year and now want to throw out reasons why its ok to suck the last 6 weeks of the season and still be given the MVP (outside of the fact that the Tigers fans just want to win a personal achivement award to justify they have a quality team)

but hey, carry on, great topic and definately not much I can add since Trustme told me so..better get Trustmemyopionsareright in this topic so we can be properly edjumicated ie enlitend on the subjet.

 

[The Derski]

Am I in the minority for assuming it will go Miggy, Davis, Trout? I understand how people would like it to go, Im just saying how I assume it will go.

That's exactly how I expect it to go. I tried to explain it earlier but people got mad. In fact I think Davis and Cabrera will be pretty close.

 

[The Derski]

wow, Tigers fans get defensive, and it doesn't matter who posts....love the counterpoint used by Tigers fans..."your a troll""your trolling""your just a hater"....all credible and strong points thoroughly strengthing any discussion...

Fact - Tigers fans discredited Trout last year because what his statistics were over the last 6 weeks of the season and stated "repeatly" by numberous tiger fans..."You can't give an MVP to guy who sucks down the stretch when it counts the most"

Fact II - Miggy sucked (injuried or not) the last 6 weeks of the season this year and now want to throw out reasons why its ok to suck the last 6 weeks of the season and still be given the MVP (outside of the fact that the Tigers fans just want to win a personal achivement award to justify they have a quality team)

but hey, carry on, great topic and definately not much I can add since Trustme told me so..better get Trustmemyopionsareright in this topic so we can be properly edjumicated ie enlitend on the subjet.

You're an LA fan. I expect you to defend Trout. He is a terrific player. Right now Cabrera is on a whole different level than everyone else.

Btw Doyer fans get defensive over your diva team and Puig in general all the time.

 

[broncosmitty]

Did Arther get tossed off theHoop or something?(smartherthanyou) Haven't seen his ugly mug for longer than seems possible if he wasn't. Miss seeing others go thru the painful "breaking the ice" phase, over and over and over.... And.... I hate thinking its justified for other guys to be viable MVP candidates. Especially since Scherzer went thru that winless streak.

 

[broncosmitty]

That's exactly how I expect it to go. I tried to explain it earlier but people got mad. In fact I think Davis and Cabrera will be pretty close.

Davis had a great year. If his Os had better pitching I assume it'd be very close. (Which isn't fair at all, but I think its true). Really disappointed Cabrera couldn't hold into the RBI title. I know many dont give it value like other benchmarks, but it would have made me more confident itd be back to back MVPs.

 

[broncosmitty]

You're an LA fan. I expect you to defend Trout. He is a terrific player. Right now Cabrera is on a whole different level than everyone else.

Btw Doyer fans get defensive over your diva team and Puig in general all the time.

He hates Detroit. Like normal people hate cancer. Should have seen his comparisons between the Royals and Tigs starting pitching.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

The stretch run only matters more than any other period when the team needs it. Last year the angels almost made the playoffs. But they folded at the end and that was partially thanks to trout(even though trout powered that team after an epically bad beginning). Miggy was bad this season, but the team still won the division. So the stretch was not as important for the tigers than it was for the angels.

 

[Wazmankg]

wow, Tigers fans get defensive, and it doesn't matter who posts....love the counterpoint used by Tigers fans..."your a troll""your trolling""your just a hater"....all credible and strong points thoroughly strengthing any discussion...

Fact - Tigers fans discredited Trout last year because what his statistics were over the last 6 weeks of the season and stated "repeatly" by numberous tiger fans..."You can't give an MVP to guy who sucks down the stretch when it counts the most"

Fact II - Miggy sucked (injuried or not) the last 6 weeks of the season this year and now want to throw out reasons why its ok to suck the last 6 weeks of the season and still be given the MVP (outside of the fact that the Tigers fans just want to win a personal achivement award to justify they have a quality team)

but hey, carry on, great topic and definately not much I can add since Trustme told me so..better get Trustmemyopionsareright in this topic so we can be properly edjumicated ie enlitend on the subjet.

Fact - Even with Miggy sucking down the stretch his team made the post-season and there is nobody from a contending team (I'd give it to Trout this year if the Angels were contenders) who is even close to him. Sorry but the fact that Davis hit a few more bombs doesn't make up for his deficits nearly everywhere else... and 199 Ks ? Really ? So the fact that Miggy sucked the last 6 weeks is a moot point this year.