Traitor Mode

[WizardHawk]

Heh. Well I didn't know you were Nostradamus.

Cool. Can I ask you about lotto numbers?

--

And given that Kaep has not gotten a contract, how hasn't he lost millions of dollars?

I mean don't bs a bs'er Polar.

To be fair, the estimate for Kaepernicks current net worth is at least $25million. So even if he doesn't earn another dime he made a fortune before he got emboldened. I don't believe Ali was worth the equivalent in those days before he put his freedom on the line.

A lot easier to put it on the line AFTER you have made a fortune.

 

[chf]

To be fair, the estimate for Kaepernicks current net worth is at least $25million. So even if he doesn't earn another dime he made a fortune before he got emboldened. I don't believe Ali was worth the equivalent in those days before he put his freedom on the line.

A lot easier to put it on the line AFTER you have made a fortune.

So if these guys are NOT rich yet, it's STFU, who are YOU? If they're successful (read: rich), then it's 'well you're not brave enough to speak up until you're wealthy.'

But hey, good for him then on the 25 mil. Shows he's a smart dude. He's somehow managed to avoid snorting his money up his nose, gambling it away, or paying for the next party cruise.

At any rate, it seems to me, damned if they do, damned if they don't.

The vitriol towards Bennet illustrates that. Can't really be much MORE involved in the community and charity and giving back.

 

[WizardHawk]

So if these guys are NOT rich yet, it's STFU, who are YOU? If they're successful (read: rich), then it's 'well you're not brave enough to speak up until you're wealthy.'

But hey, good for him then on the 25 mil. Shows he's a smart dude. He's somehow managed to avoid snorting his money up his nose, gambling it away, or paying for the next party cruise.

At any rate, it seems to me, damned if they do, damned if they don't.

The vitriol towards Bennet illustrates that. Can't really be much MORE involved in the community and charity and giving back.

You do like to project a bit.

I was simply adding in a comment toward your conversation with someone else, not championing their point of view. That is, The Ali comparison isn't apt here because it was entirely different. That doesn't make either more or less right. They simply aren't related.

I think I have already fairly clearly laid out my views. I don't like anyone using that forum for making points, but I'm not bothered enough by it to raise a stink. I'm not one that would threaten to not watch, not buy tickets etc over any of it. I think it is dumb and counterproductive more than some massive problem. I really didn't think that much of Bennett before this based off some of his words in the past, but I really mostly care about what he does on the field.

 

[chf]

You do like to project a bit.

I was simply adding in a comment toward your conversation with someone else, not championing their point of view. That is, The Ali comparison isn't apt here because it was entirely different. That doesn't make either more or less right. They simply aren't related.

I think I have already fairly clearly laid out my views. I don't like anyone using that forum for making points, but I'm not bothered enough by it to raise a stink. I'm not one that would threaten to not watch, not buy tickets etc over any of it. I think it is dumb and counterproductive more than some massive problem. I really didn't think that much of Bennett before this based off some of his words in the past, but I really mostly care about what he does on the field.

Yeah, no my bad. Poorly constructed sentence on my part. I wasn't suggesting you were advocating that. Apologies if that's how it seemed.

 

[chf]

Why was the Ali situation 'completely' different?

 

[WizardHawk]

Why was the Ali situation 'completely' different?

I'm not Ali expert, but wasn't he put in jail for refusing to go to the Vietnam war? I don't recall anyone asking our current NFL'ers to potentially die for anything they are standing up against.

That was a different time with a lot more at stake and a lot more on the line personally for him. He also wasn't filthy rich at the time he started his activism. And he was fighting not only racial stuff, but his Islamic faith.

Just feels entirely apples/oranges to me.

 

[chf]

Yes on the Vietnam angle. But that's a perfect illustration of what I'm talking about. Kaep was CRITICAL of the police, he wasn't refusing to actually do something he was required to do by law. And yet people lost their fucking minds.

Kaep isn't protesting something HE'S being asked to do. He's protesting the way other people get treated, systemically.

'Filthy' rich? Heh. Why does America selectively both love and hate rich people?

 

[WizardHawk]

Kaepernick had the support of even some white athletes when he was kneeling. After wearing the Malcom X and Castro shirts and pig socks and a few of the other things he said things went south.

Who hates the rich? The point that after you have made your money it's a lot easier to be bold and risk your future than before you make enough money to be comfortable.

Yes, there have been way too many very public examples of black people dying by the hands of police with quite a few that were entirely ridiculous. It's a far cry from where we were in the 60's when the battle was far more fierce and yet still not the dream King had. There are worthy discussions to be had.

Verbally attacking the police at a time when a few innocent cops were randomly killed in retaliation was just flat out wrong. Period. Stop. /micdrop

And he is paying the price for that.

Lynch and Bennett so far haven't gone anywhere near as far as Kaepernick did, however both of them chose to sit after everything Kaepernick went through when he was sitting before he changed to kneeling to stop getting the heat back from the military. It's as if they want that heat. It's entirely their choice, but backlash will for sure be the result.

It's just not very smart for either one of them. There are better ways to face less heat and still get their views out there.

 

[WizardHawk]

Not long ago a white woman was killed by a black cop in the midwest. She was shot in the face at point blank range for just approaching the window of the police car that SHE called to report a potential r*pe in an alley.

No rioting. No moral public outrage and signs in the streets.

Had that been a black woman shot by a white cop parts of that city would have burned and we all know it.

It's easy to single out examples the other way and use it as some broader indication this is all that ever happens. It happens way too much, but you never hear much of the other stories that show sometimes white cops kill white people for stupid reasons as well and cases like the above.

 

[Tapey]

I dont really care about what he does, I do however hope he sucks this year

 

[Duffman]

Honest question, do the people that have a problem with people sitting or kneeling during the anthem also have the same issues before they implemented this?

Or does it not matter because there was no cameras?


/

 

[JMR]

Honest question, do the people that have a problem with people sitting or kneeling during the anthem also have the same issues before they implemented this?

Or does it not matter because there was no cameras?


/

So do you think the intent or purpose of bringing the players out for the anthem was to not respect the flag? I honestly don't remember what happened before 2009, but I've seen stuff like this before that was erroneous.

 

[WizardHawk]

Honest question, do the people that have a problem with people sitting or kneeling during the anthem also have the same issues before they implemented this?

Or does it not matter because there was no cameras?
/

Entirely flawed logic.

I would have no issues at all (and would suggest it a good idea) for them to go back to not having the team on the field for that.

BUT, if you are going to stage it and have the team out there, how they act during it is something everyone is completely within their rights to judge. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts in any way.

 

[chf]

Not long ago a white woman was killed by a black cop in the midwest. She was shot in the face at point blank range for just approaching the window of the police car that SHE called to report a potential r*pe in an alley.

No rioting. No moral public outrage and signs in the streets.

Had that been a black woman shot by a white cop parts of that city would have burned and we all know it.

It's easy to single out examples the other way and use it as some broader indication this is all that ever happens. It happens way too much, but you never hear much of the other stories that show sometimes white cops kill white people for stupid reasons as well and cases like the above.

Oh ffs.

 

[WizardHawk]

Oh ffs.

Right, bringing up Ali as though Bennett is actually resisting going off to die in war for his country or fighting for his religion in a world where blacks still were not largely making headway in the country is so much more on point than bringing up that ALL LIVES MATTER which is at least something happening this century.

I have zero problems with Bennett's message or any of their concerns. None. And I am not up in arms over their resistance to honoring the flag or our country. I simply think it's dumb and counterproductive. And you sure haven't added anything that would move the needle, nor has Lynch sitting and eating a banana during the anthem. I'm not feeling anything positive out of it.

 

[chf]

I have zero problems with Bennett's message or any of their concerns. None. And I am not up in arms over their resistance to honoring the flag or our country. I simply think it's dumb and counterproductive. And you sure haven't added anything that would move the needle, nor has Lynch sitting and eating a banana during the anthem. I'm not feeling anything positive out of it.

<shrug>

There's probably 10,000 posts on this site devoted to the topic. If you feel like venturing into the cesspool of NST, you can read the really inflammatory stuff. (I avoid it). People ARE talking about it.

Whether any of these individual actions like Bennet's will 'move the needle' I dunno, but movements start somewhere. All am saying is that it's WAAAAY to early to judge how effective things will be over time.

If you have no problem with it, why waste time arguing that it's 'dumb and counterproductive?'

 

[WizardHawk]

<shrug>

There's probably 10,000 posts on this site devoted to the topic. If you feel like venturing into the cesspool of NST, you can read the really inflammatory stuff. (I avoid it). People ARE talking about it.

Whether any of these individual actions like Bennet's will 'move the needle' I dunno, but movements start somewhere. All am saying is that it's WAAAAY to early to judge how effective things will be over time.

If you have no problem with it, why waste time arguing that it's 'dumb and counterproductive?'

I think it's dumb and counterproductive AT THIS TIME. I suspect it will still hurt them personally more than help them. I really can't see it doing much more than we already are doing on the topic so why this thing in this fashion?

Again, Kaepernick started by sitting and then adjusted to kneeling when the military types got all ruffled. So Bennett and Lynch going back to sitting just feels kind of dumb and asking for fans to hate you for no good reason IMO.

 

[chf]

I think it's dumb and counterproductive AT THIS TIME. I suspect it will still hurt them personally more than help them.

'them' as in the players doing it, or the 'cause?'

Because in Bennet's case, then if it's the former, I think you're missing the boat entirely.

I take Kaep at his word, although I tend to agree with Nate Boyer that he's bungled his approach in plenty of ways. Marshawn? heh, who knows with that cat?

 

[WizardHawk]

There should be some kind of payoff chance at least for spending your built up likability.

Lynch is who he is and who he has always been and I doubt he cares about any fans being upset by any of it. It could still at least impact his brand and the work it is doing for his charity service. That's unfortunate.

The point was there are ways they could engage the topic without unnecessarily adding the fringe issues.

 

[Podunkparte]

You know what might be productive? If the players who are demonstrating would put out a singular statement about their message, and if, instead of simply repeating again and again that specific players are sitting during the song, the broadcast and commentators actually described why they're doing so. Let the action serve the message instead of merely making the action the story.