Training Camp following

[broncosmitty]

Is there a tight end who has the size, and the speed? (Id like names) Don't get me wrong, the fumbles are not acceptable. (The drops are going to happen with most non-receivers) But the guy is a big tight end. He's not an Antonio Gates, Cook, Graham,.... Scheffler type of oversized wideout. He's an actual tight end. Who never was looked to for long gains or stretching a defense.(Paragraph). Jason Fox (nobody has seemed to want to discuss this) left early. Leaving us with Corey Hilliard and RR at the tackles. With BP to help protect. Stafford was protrcted Fairley well on Sunday, imo. To me, it seems a lot of Lions fans are forgetting the actual purpose of a tight end. Fantasy football is a good time, I enjoy it, but players don't need to put up huge FF numbers to still produce and help their team win. (He didn't drop two touchdown passes).

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Is there a tight end who has the size, and the speed? (Id like names) Don't get me wrong, the fumbles are not acceptable. (The drops are going to happen with most non-receivers) But the guy is a big tight end. He's not an Antonio Gates, Cook, Graham,.... Scheffler type of oversized wideout. He's an actual tight end. Who never was looked to for long gains or stretching a defense.(Paragraph). Jason Fox (nobody has seemed to want to discuss this) left early. Leaving us with Corey Hilliard and RR at the tackles. With BP to help protect. Stafford was protrcted Fairley well on Sunday, imo. To me, it seems a lot of Lions fans are forgetting the actual purpose of a tight end. Fantasy football is a good time, I enjoy it, but players don't need to put up huge FF numbers to still produce and help their team win. (He didn't drop two touchdown passes).

Guys like Gronk 6'6" 265, Graham 6'7" 265, and Jason Witten 6'5" 262 are all guys who are similar to Pettigrew's size of 6'5" 265, yet have the speed to be a mismatch downfield. Though Witten has slowed down. Even guys like Gonzalez, Cook and any number of other TE's are roughly the same size (within 5-10 lbs and the same height or taller). The only smaller side TE's are Vernon Davis at 6'3" 250, Gates at 6'4" 250, I had another one, but can't remember it now and don't feel like looking it back up. From looking at the TE's though -- the norm seems to be in the 255-265 range and 6'5" and up., so it isn't as if Pettigrew is a huge TE.

I honestly don't care at all about fantasy numbers. I just want to see the Lions win. In today's NFL -- if you are spending a 1st round pick on a TE, it seems you would want more than a blocking TE, who is basically an extension of the running game. IMO -- I don't think Pettigrew will do much in the Lions offense this year with emergence of Bell in the passing game, as well as Bush. Those were the passes Pettigrew used to get. I wouldn't be suprised to see him set career lows this year in both catches and yards. I can't really comment on his blocking as I don't pay much attention to that, nor have I read anything regarding his blocking efficiency. So maybe he excels in that area and I'm just uninformed. If anyone has anything regarding that area to read -- I'd love to read up on it.

I would just love to see the Lions with a reliable TE who can stretch the field. There are a ton of them in the NFL right now and it is something that the Lions are missing on offense. I know Scheffler plays that role right now, but he just has a tough time catching the ball for whatever reason.

 

[tpaulus_2]

The more and more I get to watch Pettigrew, I'm thinking he is more of a lemon.

Ha! Touche...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Instead of progressing -- he seems to be regressing. As you said though -- without a better option on the roster, there is nothing the Lions can do with him right now.

Totally agree.

Just because I'm defending his place on the roster doesn't mean that I'm a Pettigrew fan, per se. Imo, his issue is brains/confidence. All his teammates rave about his practice habits and abilities, but when the camera shows him after a bad play he has that "deer in the headlights" look. Maybe the dude is just dumb, and can't "get it" when it comes to ball security? We can all see that with the drops and fumbles it's simply a concentration issue- he's trying to do too much. He's gotta understand that catching the ball and securing it comes before turning up the field, not as he's turning up field.


But without anyone to replace him he's going to be our starting in-line TE this year, for better or worse. He'll either maintain the status quo and be a goner after the season, or he'll put the ball security issues behind him and return to his 2010-2011 form and sign a long-term deal to stay in the D. Only time will tell, but cutting him now would be a big mistake...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Imo, we keep Pettigrew after this year in his in-line role because he'll come cheap and is still one of the better two-way TEs in the league. There's just not a lot of those types out there, Gronk is the only "star" two-way guy that comes to mind. Gresham for the Bengals is pretty good, too.

However, I think we'll either sign or draft a "move" TE to take over for Scheffler, while we also keep developing Fauria. Pettigrew is not what we hoped he'd be, but he is good at his specific role, and has shown that he can produce. We have lots of better weapons and his numbers will go down, but teams still have to respect that he could be a blocker or a receiver on any given play...

 

[jayfan]

Is there a tight end who has the size, and the speed? (Id like names) Don't get me wrong, the fumbles are not acceptable. (The drops are going to happen with most non-receivers) But the guy is a big tight end. He's not an Antonio Gates, Cook, Graham,.... Scheffler type of oversized wideout. He's an actual tight end. Who never was looked to for long gains or stretching a defense.(Paragraph). Jason Fox (nobody has seemed to want to discuss this) left early. Leaving us with Corey Hilliard and RR at the tackles. With BP to help protect. Stafford was protrcted Fairley well on Sunday, imo. To me, it seems a lot of Lions fans are forgetting the actual purpose of a tight end.

Two thoughts, Smitty.

1. Pettigrew doesn't really stay in on pass plays unless it's a play-action fake. He releases as a receiver.

2. We now refer to him as a 'non-receiver' tight end by default, because he's become poor at it. But he was drafted with the expectation of being a very good/productive receiving tight end, who could also block (and looked the part his first couple seasons). Primary blocking tight ends aren't drafted in the first round.

 

[broncosmitty]

His statistics show him to be a primarily blocking tight end? (Franchise records for tight receiving must have been thrown out after that fumble on Sunday?) I understand your frustration with the fumbles jay. But cutting a very important player based on a fumble is ridiculous. And Pettigrew does serve as a blocker in some situations on pass plays. Like the 3,4,5 yard dump offs. The other tight ends mentioned earlier often, or in some cases, usually line up wide, and not tight, next to a tackle. Call it apples to oranges, or lemons, or what ever you like, Pettigrew is an important part of the Lions offense. In the running game, in the passing game, and possibly in the receiving game. If he finds his way into Scotty and/or Staffs doghouse When it comes to looks, I won't complain. But I will voice my dissent to the idea of cutting him. Cuz that just doesn't make much football sense.

 

[jayfan]

No, his career stats suggest that at one time he could catch the ball with some consistency, which is what he was drafted to do. While my call to cut him came immediately after the fumble, and may have been a slight overreaction, it was clearly not based just on that play (or the one immediately before it). Between drops, misses, and fumbles, he's become entirely unreliable as a receiver for over a year now. Which is why the focus is now on the fact that at least he's still a good blocker. If that's enough to keep him in the starting lineup, ok. But if your starting tight end can't be counted on to make a catch to keep a drive alive, much less stretch the field, that's a hard way to go.

 

[broncosmitty]

You probably won't like what the head coach has to say. Jim Schwartz backs TE Brandon Pettigrew, even as ball security issues persist | MLive.com

 

[tpaulus_2]

I think the problem is people are mixing two different thought together-

Was Pettigrew worth the 1st round pick we used on him? Doesn't look that way right now.

Is he an asset to our offense? Yes.

Imo, if he were a 3rd rounder nobody is having this discussion. You don't cut a guy just because he was overdrafted, you only cut a guy if he's not one of your best 53. Clearly Pettigrew is one of our best 53...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Imo, if he were a 3rd rounder nobody is having this discussion. You don't cut a guy just because he was overdrafted, you only cut a guy if he's not one of your best 53. Clearly Pettigrew is one of our best 53...

Agree 100% with this. If the Lions didn't spend the 20th overall pick on the TE position -- People wouldn't expect so much from Pettigrew.

Also agree -- cutting Pettigrew is not an option, though it has crossed my mind (and I may have even mentioned it during the game LOL), as the fumbles and drops are so unbelievably frustrating. He is the best TE we have on the roster, so cutting him wouldn't make any sense.

 

[jayfan]

You probably won't like what the head coach has to say. Jim Schwartz backs TE Brandon Pettigrew, even as ball security issues persist | MLive.com

I saw that. I do like how Schwartz handled it. He's sticking up for his player to the media. That's what a coach should do. Especially when the player's psyche probably isn't in great shape as it is.

 

[broncosmitty]

I saw that. I do like how Schwartz handled it. He's sticking up for his player to the media. That's what a coach should do. Especially when the player's psyche probably isn't in great shape as it is.

I agree. I also assume Jim is somewhat lying. But Pettigrew isn't going to become more sure handed by having his coach dog him in front of the media. Maybe supporting will work?

 

[jayfan]

I think the problem is people are mixing two different thought together-

Was Pettigrew worth the 1st round pick we used on him? Doesn't look that way right now.

Is he an asset to our offense? Yes.

Imo, if he were a 3rd rounder nobody is having this discussion. You don't cut a guy just because he was overdrafted, you only cut a guy if he's not one of your best 53. Clearly Pettigrew is one of our best 53...

I get what you're saying, Tpaul, and I did reference his being a first round pick as compounding the frustration, but not causing it. If a player develops a habit of stalling drives by failing to catch balls thrown to him then he's hurting the team. We'd be discussing it regardless of where he was drafted.

 

[Thruthefog]

I think Tebow is still available.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Pettigrews biggest problems are that he is super inconsistent and appears to be completely developed. He is who he is. A guy that creates mismatches that stafford can hook up with, but also a guy that fumbles and drops passes way too much.

 

[55briggs]

the lions suck too

 

[LPinSLC]

the lions suck too

You sure have a way with words. Brilliant.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Hammer, can we un-sticky this thread?

It was kind of a time-sensitive thing, and it's pretty well dead now...

 

[Thruthefog]

It's alive!!

It's a miracle!!