Trade MadBum.....?

[msgkings322]

OK this needs its own thread, it's the biggest question the team faces heading into next year.

The answer to this determines the direction they want to go.

Personally I think it's time to do so, but in the offseason. I agree with not dealing him this year, in the winter they can work teams and create a market.

I think it's time not just because they need a rebuild, it's time because we simply shouldn't give an almost 30 yr old pitcher 8 yrs $230 mil or whatever. Especially when that pitcher is showing weakening peripherals like fastball velocity and so on. His out rate on fastballs is way down too.

But there's a case to make for keeping him and I'm open to being persuaded. What do you guys think?

 

[The Q]

Giants have to admit the ride is over to do that.

They should’ve done that by now, but they seem intent on contending until posey collapses

 

[msgkings322]

Giants have to admit the ride is over to do that.

They should’ve done that by now, but they seem intent on contending until posey collapses

They had a good plan for this year, but injuries and some hard to see regression derailed it. They still are going to be a .500 team so only a few games short of a wild card. So no they didn't have to go rebuild by now.

Going forward, it might be time to do so. Then again, as I said, there's a case to make that they don't need to blow it up yet.

 

[tzill]

They are not going to rebuild/blow it up. Probably not ever. The plan is to develop and contend. Their biz model is contingent upon drawing 2+ million every year. They can’t afford 2-3 years of empty stadiums.

 

[The Q]

They are not going to rebuild/blow it up. Probably not ever. The plan is to develop and contend. Their biz model is contingent upon drawing 2+ million every year. They can’t afford 2-3 years of empty stadiums.

If that’s true I’m curious how they move Ramos and others to fill holes for the next few years.

Cause every ride ends at some point

 

[calsnowskier]

If that’s true I’m curious how they move Ramos and others to fill holes for the next few years.

Cause every ride ends at some point

Bill Walsh never called the Giants. The Giants belong to the school of “Its better to sign a guy for 4 years too long than to trade him 1 year too soon.”

 

[The Q]

Bill Walsh never called the Giants. The Giants belong to the school of “Its better to sign a guy for 4 years too long than to trade him 1 year too soon.”

Lol.

Not surprised since the other way is a dodger based theory

 

[stanford the manford]

they won't, but they should have after things went in the crapper post asb last year. his trade value isn't increasing.
90-87` nd as i've maintained, if/when the giants turn this thing around madbum and most of the starters will be on the steep decline of their career.

if you are going to lose, might as well start stocking the roster with players who might be able to help in the future

 

[stanford the manford]

They are not going to rebuild/blow it up. Probably not ever. The plan is to develop and contend. Their biz model is contingent upon drawing 2+ million every year. They can’t afford 2-3 years of empty stadiums.

i've been attending since att opened (15-20 gms/yr). there are a lot of empty seats this season. they post attendance as seats sold, which are mostly season ticket holders not bis. season ticket holders aren't showing up (except for big series) and there is no secondary demand for tickets. look for season ticket sales to decline next year and especially in '20 as corporate $$ go to chase arena / warriors

 

[LHG]

Did this article spur this post - Giants, Madison Bumgarner facing uncertain long-term futures

 

[tzill]

they won't, but they should have after things went in the crapper post asb last year. his trade value isn't increasing.
90-87` nd as i've maintained, if/when the giants turn this thing around madbum and most of the starters will be on the steep decline of their career.

if you are going to lose, might as well start stocking the roster with players who might be able to help in the future

But they don’t plan to lose, thus your premise is flawed.

 

[tzill]

i've been attending since att opened (15-20 gms/yr). there are a lot of empty seats this season. they post attendance as seats sold, which are mostly season ticket holders not bis. season ticket holders aren't showing up (except for big series) and there is no secondary demand for tickets. look for season ticket sales to decline next year and especially in '20 as corporate $$ go to chase arena / warriors

Chase will have an impact, but not as large an impact as consecutive 90+ loss seasons. They will not rebuild.

 

[stanford the manford]

But they don’t plan to lose, thus your premise is flawed.

plan or not, it appears they are losing

 

[stanford the manford]

Chase will have an impact, but not as large an impact as consecutive 90+ loss seasons. They will not rebuild.

chase is the shiny new object - just as att was 18yrs ago. warriors are hot, giants are not. corp $$ prefer night events and indoor chase has it all over outdoor att. we'll see how it plays out

i agree they will not rebuild and attendance will suffer as a result

 

[SFGRTB]

OK this needs its own thread, it's the biggest question the team faces heading into next year.

The answer to this determines the direction they want to go.

Personally I think it's time to do so, but in the offseason. I agree with not dealing him this year, in the winter they can work teams and create a market.

I think it's time not just because they need a rebuild, it's time because we simply shouldn't give an almost 30 yr old pitcher 8 yrs $230 mil or whatever. Especially when that pitcher is showing weakening peripherals like fastball velocity and so on. His out rate on fastballs is way down too.

But there's a case to make for keeping him and I'm open to being persuaded. What do you guys think?

They should have traded him last offseason as part of a full-overhaul, but we've been down that road.

I've basically come to terms that we're going to have another Cain situation, except perhaps scarier because Bum is probably in line for a much larger contract.

 

[msgkings322]

They are not going to rebuild/blow it up. Probably not ever. The plan is to develop and contend. Their biz model is contingent upon drawing 2+ million every year. They can’t afford 2-3 years of empty stadiums.

I'm aware that's their plan probably but wanted your personal take. Would you trade him? And if not would you/should they sign him to a long term deal?

 

[LHG]

I'm never really for long term deals with pitchers, especially ones that start in the pitcher's 30s. They never really pan out. Heck, even the one I thought was about as safe as it could possibly be (Matt Cain) was bad. So I would rather not have Bumgarner signed for a long term deal after 2019. However, it feels weird to think about him in some other uniform. And if the Giants are going to be idiots and commit to some atrocious long term deal, where they essentially pay a player for what he's done in the past (like the Angels are doing with Pujols) then I would rather it be a guy for whom his past was in a Giants' uniform.

As far as trading him, I agree that what they could get in return isn't what they could have gotten a year ago or even last off season. I would hope the team wouldn't trade him just to get something back. If the deal was a B- prospect and one or two C prospects, then forget it. But if they could land an A prospect, a B prospect and one or two C prospects, then yes, please do it for the future of the franchise. However, I don't think a trade will happen at all. Not on a team that is not looking into a full re-build.

 

[tzill]

plan or not, it appears they are losing

Key word there is “appears.” If you know with certainty the team is going to lose 90+ then blowing it up makes some sense. Otherwise you develop and try to contend.

 

[tzill]

I'm aware that's their plan probably but wanted your personal take. Would you trade him? And if not would you/should they sign him to a long term deal?

I would trade him if I could get value. But I’d hate myself for doing it.

 

[tzill]

chase is the shiny new object - just as att was 18yrs ago. warriors are hot, giants are not. corp $$ prefer night events and indoor chase has it all over outdoor att. we'll see how it plays out

i agree they will not rebuild and attendance will suffer as a result

Hold up there - I never said a failure to rebuild would result in lower attendance.