Top Three Most Poorly Operated NBA Franchises

[Rockinkuwait]

Since you are going with opinion and guessing, are you aware the Cavs had a deal in place to acquire Bosh, but he said no and the only place all 3 of those guys could play together was Miami? Then, of course, he left Riley to come back to Cleveland as he believed Gilbert would go all in while he had his doubts about Arison.

Gilbert has had a whopping 3.5 seasons with no Lebron. The first 3 started with Lebron's surprise exit. Losing was the plan and here's a newsflash....it worked. You are blaming them for executing a plan that worked, and don't see how absurd that is. It's sad...but comical. Saying a team who has been better than all but 1 the last 4 years did so while ALL moves were "anything but a disaster"? McFly?

Makes sense. With what that FO was doing I wouldn't want to end up their either.

And Yes the failures go much longer than Gilbert. I've shown 20 years of them.

You see how you aren't talking about the actual things I bring up? Instead talk about "what could have happened" in your fantasy world.

And no they plan didn't work. If Chicago had gone a different way and won 1 championship with Jordan before he bolted to the NY Knicks, did that plan "work" or was it a disaster compared to what could have been? GTFO out of here with that lazy crap trying to defend bad players.

It was AWESOME how Lebron willed that team every single year. And it sucks to see how bad of a cast they put around him.

Your best defense now has been JR Smith is better than Lilliard, that the best help for Lebron is guys that lose when he heads to the bench, and that you are happy with Sexton, Love, JR, and TT with the greatest haul of draft picks in NBA history, more than some franchises get in their entire history. They tanked, and would have kept just tanking... if they were in any other city but Cleveland where Lebron wanted to go home. None of your fantasy "they almost traded for this guy", or "well they won with TT so Kawhi isn't better" stuff.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Bennetts draft was awful. No one and I mean no one had Giannis going 1 so don't even pull that shit. Anyone in the top ten aside from Oladipo would be a major downgrade and adding Oladipo with Kyrie would've been dumb.

So yes they flipped that garbage and Wiggins for Love.

Kyrie was the best choice of his slot

And TT was a slight overdraft but not Derrick Williams awful.

And again they won a title and went to four more in the last dozen seasons lol

This might be the dumbest argument I've had in some time you're approaching no vaccine or gravity guy over on the PF


(Ah I see the Waiters deal....let's just ignore they flipped that for Smith, Shumpert and effectively Mozgov to make up for an overdraft on Waiters....literally both times they messed up they corrected it in a trade.)

 

[Rockinkuwait]

the stuff about Bynum just shows you really have very little clue what you are talking about.

You don't remember that 24 million dollar deal they handed out to Bynum? Him saying that Cleveland was definitely a playoff team, and them saying he would anchor the inside and pair with Kyrie to improve them?

Well I'd say that went poorly for Cleveland. Granted you are entitled your opinion of how masterful that deal was.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Bennetts draft was awful. No one and I mean no one had Giannis going 1 so don't even pull that shit. Anyone in the top ten aside from Oladipo would be a major downgrade and adding Oladipo with Kyrie would've been dumb.

So yes they flipped that garbage and Wiggins for Love.

Kyrie was the best choice of his slot

And TT was a slight overdraft but not Derrick Williams awful.

And again they won a title and went to four more in the last dozen seasons lol

This might be the dumbest argument I've had in some time you're approaching no vaccine or gravity guy over on the PF

Wouldn't it be nice if instead of flipping bad picks and getting Love, they got even better players? I mean this is my point. When the highlight is settling for a clear downgrade vs. what you could have had, that's making my point for me.


And you keep talking about how they won a championship. They won that because Lebron was so good, Love's 8 points a game dud in the NBA finals wasn't enough bad play to cause Lebron to lose. You really are excited about that? That two #1 overall picks turned into an 8 point a game defensive liability in their championship series? You are making the point on this better than I ever could here.

You are literally defending Cleveland taking the worst player in the first round with the first pick, because they didn't totally screw it up.

Kyrie was the 3rd best player in the draft, taken with the #1 overall pick. Yes, lots of people were wrong about the best player in that draft, Cleveland was one of them.

TT wasn't derrick Williams awful. But another missed opportunity with a high value pick. Which seems to be the case over and over.

And combined they made for the worst team in the league before Lebron showed up, and went 4-20 when Lebron wasn't playing.

What about that says "yay!"?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

It's better than your premise that a franchise has ever in the history of the NBA picked the absolute best player in every draft slot

They had Kyrie they weren't taking Lillard let's just start there. They took a shooting guard to go with Kyrie. Well that pick went bust so they got three pieces of a contender for that busted pick. Same for the Bennet bust. Outside of Victor 1-10 was a total shit pile

Could have had Embiid? Should we just ignore he's been injured most of his career?

Hell the Sixers busted on MCW, Fultz and Noel and we are sitting here talking about how great their process was.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

It's better than your premise that a franchise has ever in the history of the NBA picked the absolute best player in every draft slot

They had Kyrie they weren't taking Lillard let's just start there. They took a shooting guard to go with Kyrie. Well that pick went bust so they got three pieces of a contender for that busted pick. Same for the Bennet bust. Outside of Victor 1-10 was a total shit pile

Could have had Embiid? Should we just ignore he's been injured most of his career?

Hell the Sixers busted on MCW, Fultz and Noel and we are sitting here talking about how great their process was.

No. They don't have to pick the best every time. But maybe once???


Teams have built dynasties with a lot less than what the Cavs accumulated in draft capital.. and then had one of the best players in the history of the game want to play there. And their front office was able to turn two #1 overall picks into loves 8 points a game in that championship season and 4-20 record when LeBron was out?

That is what upsets me with them.

Like you say, look at the sixers. Been trying for nearly a decade to get the good picks Cleveland got in 4 short years, and what they are right now is with one LESS #1 overall pick than Cleveland had. Even with all their screwups they've got a 50 win team without LeBron. And Cleveland with one more #1 overall pick was putting together 25 win teams. How horrible is that??

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Well you're certainly free to hate the Cavs man. Carry on

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Well you're certainly free to hate the Cavs man. Carry on

Not at all. I don't think the 76ers front office has been good. So without LeBron and with 1 fewer #1 overall pick they put together a 52 win team last year, same as Cleveland averaged WITH LeBron and one less #1 overall pick. Does LeBron add 5 wins to that team? I think so which makes them well ahead of Cleveland without a #1 pick that they had.

I like the Cavs a lot actually. Which is why it sucks to see the front office has wasted the biggest stockpile of draft picks in nba history and it cost them championships and LeBron.. they should have made a consistent contender at the least with what they had without LeBron, arguably the greatest player in history in his prime being added to the mix, and instead have a mess and one ring.

To me that's what is killing them, and it sucks to see it and I can't look at that huge draft capital and watch them play today and say that's anything but an absolute waste by the front office.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

They are a mess now but as we've seen a bigger mess can come out of bad contracts to otherwise solid players that lock a franchise in mediocrity. It's definitely better to be really bad for a few years than middle of the pack.

I wouldn't have extended Love though.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

An

It's better than your premise that a franchise has ever in the history of the NBA picked the absolute best player in every draft slot

They had Kyrie they weren't taking Lillard let's just start there. They took a shooting guard to go with Kyrie. Well that pick went bust so they got three pieces of a contender for that busted pick. Same for the Bennet bust. Outside of Victor 1-10 was a total shit pile

Could have had Embiid? Should we just ignore he's been injured most of his career?

Hell the Sixers busted on MCW, Fultz and Noel and we are sitting here talking about how great their process was.

And yes. Could have had embiid. Love made about what? 10 more games than him a year the past 4 years.

I'd still take him and Oladipo (or porter. Or caldwell pope. Or McCollum) and about 15 million in cap space over Love. And I like Love. But not compared to that.

And that draft did suck. And guess who the drafted the two worst players in the top 25? What front office found the two worst of the worst?

Not just once getting the least valuable guy, but coming back and managing to find the next least valuable taken?

As for not taking Kyrie and Lilliard, that's kinda like saying Golden State had Ellis averaging 25-6. So there's no way they would take another scoring PG like Curry there. Why wouldn't they? Unless you are saying that's only something a good team would do. Or that with Westbrook OKC would never take a guy like harden in the top 3.

There's two guard spots and both of those guys can shoot and score and cover guards . Are you saying their FO is so disfunctional they would pass on a talented guy just because he could also lead an offense and pass and not follow the example of some pretty good teams? How would GS look if they took your advice and said it's either thabeet or Jordan Hill? I'm sorry but I will have to disagree that getting two scorers who can pass is a bad thing.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

They are a mess now but as we've seen a bigger mess can come out of bad contracts to otherwise solid players that lock a franchise in mediocrity. It's definitely better to be really bad for a few years than middle of the pack.

I wouldn't have extended Love though.

Agree. I think that didn't make sense to me either. I just think they at best got a nice choice, not the movemthat could have made the franchise, and for the most got a lot less than they could have and it cost them LeBron for the rest of his career... And maybe Irving too (I think he was less about wanting to be the #1 and more about not wanting to rebuild without LeBron, but that's just me).


That's why I don't like it. They were given a golden platter. Played the tank to perfection post LeBron and couldn't put together an ok team that would have kept LeBron. Because if he truly felt he could compete with the west I think he'd still be there. Once LA was not just a media haven't but also a place with better building blocks he was done.

 

[dtgold88]

Makes sense. With what that FO was doing I wouldn't want to end up their either.

And Yes the failures go much longer than Gilbert. I've shown 20 years of them.

You see how you aren't talking about the actual things I bring up? Instead talk about "what could have happened" in your fantasy world.

And no they plan didn't work. If Chicago had gone a different way and won 1 championship with Jordan before he bolted to the NY Knicks, did that plan "work" or was it a disaster compared to what could have been? GTFO out of here with that lazy crap trying to defend bad players.

It was AWESOME how Lebron willed that team every single year. And it sucks to see how bad of a cast they put around him.

Your best defense now has been JR Smith is better than Lilliard, that the best help for Lebron is guys that lose when he heads to the bench, and that you are happy with Sexton, Love, JR, and TT with the greatest haul of draft picks in NBA history, more than some franchises get in their entire history. They tanked, and would have kept just tanking... if they were in any other city but Cleveland where Lebron wanted to go home. None of your fantasy "they almost traded for this guy", or "well they won with TT so Kawhi isn't better" stuff.

A midmarket team that is not a FA destination played for 4 titles and won 1, only losing to a team many consider the best ever.

You have resorted to pretty much making shit up...a clear sign of the irrational.

 

[dtgold88]

Bennetts draft was awful. No one and I mean no one had Giannis going 1 so don't even pull that shit. Anyone in the top ten aside from Oladipo would be a major downgrade and adding Oladipo with Kyrie would've been dumb.

So yes they flipped that garbage and Wiggins for Love.

Kyrie was the best choice of his slot

And TT was a slight overdraft but not Derrick Williams awful.

And again they won a title and went to four more in the last dozen seasons lol

This might be the dumbest argument I've had in some time you're approaching no vaccine or gravity guy over on the PF


(Ah I see the Waiters deal....let's just ignore they flipped that for Smith, Shumpert and effectively Mozgov to make up for an overdraft on Waiters....literally both times they messed up they corrected it in a trade.)

And in these "overdrafts" with Waiters and TT isn't it comical what he wanted to do was take guys at 1 or 4 who went in the 10-15 range instead?

 

[dtgold88]

You don't remember that 24 million dollar deal they handed out to Bynum? Him saying that Cleveland was definitely a playoff team, and them saying he would anchor the inside and pair with Kyrie to improve them?

Well I'd say that went poorly for Cleveland. Granted you are entitled your opinion of how masterful that deal was.

yeah...was terrible. Bynum fell off the books and that Lebron fellow took his place.

 

[dtgold88]

Wouldn't it be nice if instead of flipping bad picks and getting Love, they got even better players? I mean this is my point. When the highlight is settling for a clear downgrade vs. what you could have had, that's making my point for me.


And you keep talking about how they won a championship. They won that because Lebron was so good, Love's 8 points a game dud in the NBA finals wasn't enough bad play to cause Lebron to lose. You really are excited about that? That two #1 overall picks turned into an 8 point a game defensive liability in their championship series? You are making the point on this better than I ever could here.

You are literally defending Cleveland taking the worst player in the first round with the first pick, because they didn't totally screw it up.

Kyrie was the 3rd best player in the draft, taken with the #1 overall pick. Yes, lots of people were wrong about the best player in that draft, Cleveland was one of them.

TT wasn't derrick Williams awful. But another missed opportunity with a high value pick. Which seems to be the case over and over.

And combined they made for the worst team in the league before Lebron showed up, and went 4-20 when Lebron wasn't playing.

What about that says "yay!"?

And Love clearly outplayed Draymond Green in the 2017 and 2018 Finals. I prefer less from Love and the title, but that's me.

You are pure comedy, though, I'll give you that.

 

[dtgold88]

No. They don't have to pick the best every time. But maybe once???


Teams have built dynasties with a lot less than what the Cavs accumulated in draft capital.. and then had one of the best players in the history of the game want to play there. And their front office was able to turn two #1 overall picks into loves 8 points a game in that championship season and 4-20 record when LeBron was out?

That is what upsets me with them.

Like you say, look at the sixers. Been trying for nearly a decade to get the good picks Cleveland got in 4 short years, and what they are right now is with one LESS #1 overall pick than Cleveland had. Even with all their screwups they've got a 50 win team without LeBron. And Cleveland with one more #1 overall pick was putting together 25 win teams. How horrible is that??

Cleveland was tanking to get Lebron back and it worked. Philly tried to clear cap space for Lebron. How'd that turn out? Did anyone take their money yet?

 

[dtgold88]

They are a mess now but as we've seen a bigger mess can come out of bad contracts to otherwise solid players that lock a franchise in mediocrity. It's definitely better to be really bad for a few years than middle of the pack.

I wouldn't have extended Love though.

Right. Cavs were a far bigger mess after Lebron left in 2010 than LA was when they started their rebuild. And in about half the time the cavs got Lebron back and became a title contender/favorite in year 1 with him. In double the time does LA look like a title contender in year 1?

As for Love? No choice, really. Not like a stud FA is coming here, so if they want to keep him he's probably better than any FA they could get by the time they want to try and improve in 2-3 years.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

And in these "overdrafts" with Waiters and TT isn't it comical what he wanted to do was take guys at 1 or 4 who went in the 10-15 range instead?

Well yes that was my point was that you cant just randomly decide they should have chosen the best guy in the draft who was skipped over by 10-15 other teams

 

[dtgold88]

An


And yes. Could have had embiid. Love made about what? 10 more games than him a year the past 4 years.

I'd still take him and Oladipo (or porter. Or caldwell pope. Or McCollum) and about 15 million in cap space over Love. And I like Love. But not compared to that.

And that draft did suck. And guess who the drafted the two worst players in the top 25? What front office found the two worst of the worst?

Not just once getting the least valuable guy, but coming back and managing to find the next least valuable taken?

As for not taking Kyrie and Lilliard, that's kinda like saying Golden State had Ellis averaging 25-6. So there's no way they would take another scoring PG like Curry there. Why wouldn't they? Unless you are saying that's only something a good team would do. Or that with Westbrook OKC would never take a guy like harden in the top 3.

There's two guard spots and both of those guys can shoot and score and cover guards . Are you saying their FO is so disfunctional they would pass on a talented guy just because he could also lead an offense and pass and not follow the example of some pretty good teams? How would GS look if they took your advice and said it's either thabeet or Jordan Hill? I'm sorry but I will have to disagree that getting two scorers who can pass is a bad thing.

cannot argue with irrational...but I did try. who was the worst pick in the draft other than maybe Bennett? waiters, who is still in the NBA? TT?

 

[dtgold88]

Agree. I think that didn't make sense to me either. I just think they at best got a nice choice, not the movemthat could have made the franchise, and for the most got a lot less than they could have and it cost them LeBron for the rest of his career... And maybe Irving too (I think he was less about wanting to be the #1 and more about not wanting to rebuild without LeBron, but that's just me).


That's why I don't like it. They were given a golden platter. Played the tank to perfection post LeBron and couldn't put together an ok team that would have kept LeBron. Because if he truly felt he could compete with the west I think he'd still be there. Once LA was not just a media haven't but also a place with better building blocks he was done.

You get GS is a little good? Not exactly the Mavs that Miami lost to.