Top 10 poll #2: #2 player in history - Runoff

[LHG]

I’m just wondering, if bonds wasn’t a steroid user and had the career he had, would there be any question between him and Mays??

How are we to know? Were the spikes in home runs just due to steroids? Could it have been doctored balls by MLB? The league saw how sexy home runs were and how it drew in the fans. Can we really say that they didn't do something to the ball like in 2019?
I still maintain that steroids didn't give the guys who were already hitting home runs an edge. It helped the warning track guys the most. Bonds was never warning track power.

 

[broncosmitty]

Mays. No roids. No cheating

He loved amphetamines.

We’re all adults here.

 

[msgkings322]

You gained weight as you got older? Wow

Weird right? So did Bonds but for him it was roids. Otherwise he wouldn’t have gained weight.

 

[msgkings322]

ARod, Ramirez, Sosa and Bonds all knowingly cheated the game. The **steroid era**... MLB turned a blind eye to everything in the name of profit. Those juiced up HR hitters got people interested in the game.

Gotta say I find it funny you call those first three cheaters but not Bonds. Interesting.

The part you’re not getting is the rules of baseball. Bonds roided for sure, as did Clemens. But they weren’t breaking any rules of the game. Those rules came after. If the idea is “anyone who took PEDs cheated” then we have to call Mantle and Mays and all the amphetamines guys cheaters too.

 

[Pure Steel]

Weird right? So did Bonds but for him it was roids. Otherwise he wouldn’t have gained weight.

Comparing weights of athletes to yourself at 21 & 41 is funny stuff

 

[calsnowskier]

I’m just wondering, if bonds wasn’t a steroid user and had the career he had, would there be any question between him and Mays??

I still vote Mays.

 

[Pure Steel]

 

[Cedrique]

He loved amphetamines.

We’re all adults here.

who doesn't?

 

[jarntt]

Fair take, but I think it belongs in the “difference between eras” argument and doesn’t need to get in the mud with the “cheaters” vs “pure player” argument that just introduces noise. Every era pushes the boundaries of the game with any technology that is available at the time. And the game itself changes over time as well (raising the mound, different manufacture techniques in the ball itself, DH, PEDs, base size, etc)

To me the cheating is 100% what put him in this particular poll so it is different from the "difference between eras" issue.

 

[calsnowskier]

To me the cheating is 100% what put him in this particular poll so it is different from the "difference between eras" issue.

Impossible to be 100%, of course, but without PEDs (leaguewide), I think Bonds WOULD have still been in this discussion. McGwire, Sosa, Piazza, Pappi, Anderson, etc, etc, etc would not have diluted his accomplishments and he would not have been facing pitchers who could throw in the 6th inning as if it were the 2nd.

 

[Wamu]

The part you’re not getting is the rules of baseball. Bonds roided for sure, as did Clemens. But they weren’t breaking any rules of the game. Those rules came after. If the idea is “anyone who took PEDs cheated” then we have to call Mantle and Mays and all the amphetamines guys cheaters too.

The part I'm not getting?

All I'm saying is those players I mentioned cheated. How am I wrong in saying that? So to say I'm not getting something is incorrect.

And I didn't come up with the name **steroid era**. Maybe that's where the mix-up is? I'm just going by what that era has been called.

Example. Article- the top 10 most notorious steroid-era cheaters (bleacher report 1/19/2011)

 

[msgkings322]

The part I'm not getting?

All I'm saying is those players I mentioned cheated. How am I wrong in saying that? So to say I'm not getting something is incorrect.

And I didn't come up with the name **steroid era**. Maybe that's where the mix-up is? I'm just going by what that era has been called.

Example. Article- the top 10 most notorious steroid-era cheaters (bleacher report 1/19/2011)

I just told you how you were wrong saying that. Look again. No rules of the game were broken by Bonds or Clemens or Mays or Mantle when they took PEDs. People can complain about it but no rules existed against those until after they used. And yes Mays and Mantle and many others used PEDs

 

[Wamu]

I just told you how you were wrong saying that. Look again. No rules of the game were broken by Bonds or Clemens or Mays or Mantle when they took PEDs. People can complain about it but no rules existed against those until after they used. And yes Mays and Mantle and many others used PEDs

 

[Wamu]

Hey my bad msg. None of those players I mentioned cheated the game in any way. They were all set up!

And that article from 2011 I mentioned must be incorrect also.

 

[msgkings322]

View attachment 382468

What in the hell are you talking about? Do you even know what rules mean in sports?

Let’s try this another way. Do you think players who use amphetamines are cheaters?

 

[msgkings322]

Hey my bad msg. None of those players I mentioned cheated the game in any way. They were all set up!

And that article from 2011 I mentioned must be incorrect also.

You don’t think Mays or Mantle cheated either?

 

[calsnowskier]

I just told you how you were wrong saying that. Look again. No rules of the game were broken by Bonds or Clemens or Mays or Mantle when they took PEDs. People can complain about it but no rules existed against those until after they used. And yes Mays and Mantle and many others used PEDs

Aaron

 

[calsnowskier]

“Cheating”, by definition, is “breaking the rules”.

So what rule did Bonds break?

 

[calsnowskier]

This poll closes tomorrow morning.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

This poll closes tomorrow morning.

close it now... if bonds wins he would be accused of cheating on this too... just like Biden...