Top 10 poll #2: #2 player in history - Runoff

[calsnowskier]

We are only doing top 10.

If there is still interest and fun debates, I may very well continue it.

 

[calsnowskier]

Then why did his personal trainer, Greg Anderson, go to jail for refusing to testify against him?

Still think that is weird as hell. Wonder why he did that?

Baseball legal and law legal are totally different things.

 

[DorianRo]

If you go from this to this. that automatically disqualifies you from ANY GOAT list in pro sports. Guys like Bonds, McGwire and Lebron were nothing but walking pharmacies. . PERIOD

 

[MilkSpiller22]

So if this was Top 25, he would still need to be completely off the list if not Top 2?

Well my comment was entirely based on a top 10. Where we are talking about the best player either in their position or of their era(how ever long an era is).

I’m sure when we reach a point where it is no longer the BEST of the BEST. AND sure we can put steroids players there.

 

[calsnowskier]

If you go from this to this. that automatically disqualifies you from ANY GOAT list in pro sports. Guys like Bonds, McGwire and Lebron were nothing but walking pharmacies. . PERIOD

Take a pic of me at 21 and compare it to a pic of me at 41 and you will see a similar “thickness” difference. And I have never taken steroids for anything non-medical related in my life.

Not to argue he didn’t use. There is NO ONE here making THAT argument.

 

[Wamu]

Baseball legal and law legal are totally different things.

Yeah okay spin it anyway you want. But Anderson went to jail for Bonds, he wouldn't testify against him. Either Bonds paid him off or Anderson is an idiot.

Gotta question for you.

Is Roger Clemens a cheater?

 

[calsnowskier]

Yeah okay spin it anyway you want. But Anderson went to jail for Bonds, he wouldn't testify against him. Either Bonds paid him off or Anderson is an idiot.

Gotta question for you.

Is Roger Clemens a cheater?

No. Neither is Pappi. Neither is McGwire.

 

[Wamu]

No. Neither is Pappi. Neither is McGwire.

So you sayin' no players directly connected to the **steroid era** of the game cheated?

 

[calsnowskier]

So you sayin' no players directly connected to the **steroid era** of the game cheated?

ARod cheated. Ramirez cheated. Sosa cheated, but not by his PED usage.

My take on this is very educated and has withstood YEARS of debate. You aren’t going to “catch” me in any hypocrisy here. My take here is very logical and fact based.

 

[calsnowskier]

I have a question for you.

Were PEDs illegal in baseball? If they were, when were they made illegal?

 

[msgkings322]

Take a pic of me at 21 and compare it to a pic of me at 41 and you will see a similar “thickness” difference. And I have never taken steroids for anything non-medical related in my life.

Not to argue he didn’t use. There is NO ONE here making THAT argument.

Just have him pull up pics of rookie Ken Griffey Jr and end of career Junior.

 

[jarntt]

Bonds isn't in the conversation for one of best players ever. How many HRs would Mays have hit if he was pumped with half the PEDs that Bonds was? Bonds was really really good before people assumed he started taking something, but to me, it's impossible to determine when that was or even if there ever really was a time for sure where he wasn't taking anything.

 

[calsnowskier]

Bonds isn't in the conversation for one of best players ever. How many HRs would Mays have hit if he was pumped with half the PEDs that Bonds was? Bonds was really really good before people assumed he started taking something, but to me, it's impossible to determine when that was or even if there ever really was a time for sure where he wasn't taking anything.

Fair take, but I think it belongs in the “difference between eras” argument and doesn’t need to get in the mud with the “cheaters” vs “pure player” argument that just introduces noise. Every era pushes the boundaries of the game with any technology that is available at the time. And the game itself changes over time as well (raising the mound, different manufacture techniques in the ball itself, DH, PEDs, base size, etc)

 

[Wamu]

ARod cheated. Ramirez cheated. Sosa cheated, but not by his PED usage. <---

My take on this is very educated and has withstood YEARS of debate. You aren’t going to “catch” me in any hypocrisy here. My take here is very logical and fact based.

ARod, Ramirez, Sosa and Bonds all knowingly cheated the game. The **steroid era**... MLB turned a blind eye to everything in the name of profit. Those juiced up HR hitters got people interested in the game.

Gotta say I find it funny you call those first three cheaters but not Bonds. Interesting.

 

[Pure Steel]

Take a pic of me at 21 and compare it to a pic of me at 41 and you will see a similar “thickness” difference. And I have never taken steroids for anything non-medical related in my life.

Not to argue he didn’t use. There is NO ONE here making THAT argument.

You gained weight as you got older? Wow

 

[LHG]

I have a question for you.

Were PEDs illegal in baseball? If they were, when were they made illegal?

ARod, Ramirez, Sosa and Bonds all knowingly cheated the game. The **steroid era**... MLB turned a blind eye to everything in the name of profit. Those juiced up HR hitters got people interested in the game.

Gotta say I find it funny you call those first three cheaters but not Bonds. Interesting.

His post above is a clue to how he is approaching who cheated and who did not.

 

[calsnowskier]

His post above is a clue to how he is approaching who cheated and who did not.

I was putting together a response when I saw yours already wording it perfectly.

If he refuses to acknowledge my question to him, he refuses to logically look at the issue and only wants look at it emotionally. And it is impossible to debate with someone who only debates from a place of emotion.

 

[calsnowskier]

You gained weight as you got older? Wow

Apparently, I am just a big fat cheating foofoo head.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I’m just wondering, if bonds wasn’t a steroid user and had the career he had, would there be any question between him and Mays??

 

[MilkSpiller22]

The way I see it, bonds had 3 of the best 10 seasons ever. And that is using any adjusted statistic as well. Mays best season wasn’t even considered top 20.

Mays imo is more about his legend than his actual statistics.