POLL Top 10 poll: #19 player ever

[calsnowskier]

1) Babe Ruth (defeated Willie Mays 23-9)
2) Willie Mays (defeated Barry Bonds 26-11)
3) Ted Williams (defeated Barry Bonds 18-17)
4) Barry Bonds (defeated Hank Aaron and Ty Cobb 20-11-8)
5) Hank Aaron (defeated Ty Cobb 17-16)
6) Ty Cobb (defeated Lou Gehrig 24-9)
7) Lou Gehrig (defeated Walter Johnson 19-10)
8) Mickey Mantle (defeated Walter Johnson 17-12)
9) Walter Johnson (defeated Stan Musial and Rogers Hornsby 18-7-3)
10) Stan Musial (defeated Rogers Hornsby 15-10)
11) Rogers Hornsby (defeated H. Wagner, R. Henderson, M. Schmidt and R. Clemens 15-4-3-2-1)
12) Honus Wagner (defeated Roger Clemens 19-8)
13) Mike Schmidt (defeated Roger Clemens 16-12)
14) Rickey Henderson (defeated Roger Clemens 17-13)
15) Roger Clemens (defeated Ken Griffey Jr 16-14)
16) Randy Johnson (defeated Tris Speaker 16-11)
17) Tris Speaker (defeated Greg Maddux 18-12)
18) Greg Maddux (defeated Albert Pujols 17-9)

Who is the #19 player ever? This poll will close Thursday AM.

VOTE FOR 3!!

Spoiler: Tags

@navamind @LHG
@steveringo @broncosmitty @packerzrule
@Shanemansj13 @jarntt @redseat
@black francis @molsaniceman @Fountain City Blues
@Used 2 B Hu @MilkSpiller22 @chappee11
@CitySushi @Clayton @UK Cowboy
@Beengay fudgepackers @Hbomb @Maximus Rex
@Pure Steel @jon2tanman @Boglodyte
@nynasty @Hank Kingsley @Wamu
@Robotech @kcden @jwolt92
@Sportsguy9695 @DHoey @chillerdab
@DorianRo @socaljim242 @PolarVortex
@msgkings322 @Cedrique @BigFin
@catman @omarsrevenge @rmilia1
@obxyankeefan @femurov @Nosferatu
@Maverick426h @TheGoodMan19 @Bodega
@blstoker @Diamondeye @trojanfan12
@mr.hockey4242 @Janus @VikingFan2k2
@Stakesarehigh @eaglesnut @boogiewithstu2007
@SF11704 @Hunter Montana

Let me know if you would like to be added or removed from the tags.

 

[redseat]

Voted

 

[LHG]

Cy Young 1890 - 1911
CY every day of his life (no accolades given during his career)

Bold: ERA 2, K 2, WHIP 7, IP 2, K/BB 11; All Time wins leader

511-315 W-L
2803/1217 K/BB
815/749 GS/CG
7356.0 IP

Lefty Grove 1925 - 1941
1 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 2 top 10 MVP, 5 more season w MVP votes (Cy Young Award wasn't yet invented during his career)

Bold: ERA 9, K 6, WHIP 5, IP 0, K/BB 8

300-141 W-L
2266/1187 K/BB
457/298 GS/CG
3940.2 IP


Mike Trout (CF) 2011 - current
3 MVP, 6 top 5 MVP, ROY, 11 ASG
86.2, 65.1
Bold: R 4, RBI 1, SB 1, BB 3, TB 1, WAR 5

OPS+ buckets
190 - 1
180 - 2
170 - 4
160 - 3
The only seasons he didn't get in the ASG was the COVID season, his rookie campaign (late season debut) and 2024 (when he only got into 24 games). He also didn't get top 5 MVP votes, besides 2011 and 2024 was 2021 (36 games) and 2023 (82 games). His OPS+ for his injury shortened seasons were 132 (2023), 140 (2024) and 194 (2021).

 

[LHG]

Updated for #17 (about time!):
1) Babe Ruth (1914-1935)
2) Willie Mays (1951-1973)
3) Ted Williams (1939-1960)
4) Barry Bonds (1986-2007)
5) Hank Aaron (1954-1976)
6) Ty Cobb (1905-1928)
7) Lou Gehrig (1923-1939)
8) Mickey Mantle (1951-1968)
9) Walter Johnson (1907-1927)
10) Stan Musial (1941-1963)
11) Rogers Hornsby (1915-1937)
12) Honus Wagner (1897-1917)
13) Mike Schmidt (1972-1989)
14) Rickey Henderson (1979-2003)
15) Roger Clemens (1984-2007)
16) Randy Johnson (1988-2009)
17) Tris Speaker (1907-1928)

1876-1896 - 0
1897-1904 - 1
1905-1906 - 2
1907-1913 - 4
1914 - 5
1915-1917 - 6
1918-1922 - 5
1923-1927 - 6
1928 - 5
1929-1935 - 3
1936-1937 - 2
1938 - 1
1939 - 2
1940 - 1
1941-1950 - 2
1951-1953 - 4
1954-1960 - 5
1961-1963 - 4
1964-1968 - 3
1969-1971 - 2
1972-1973 - 3
1974-1976 - 2
1977-1978 - 1
1979-1983 - 2
1984-1985 - 3
1986-1987 - 4
1988-1989 - 5
1990-2003 - 4
2004-2007 - 3
2008-2009 - 1
2010-2024 - 0

Updated for #18:
1) Babe Ruth (1914-1935)
2) Willie Mays (1951-1973)
3) Ted Williams (1939-1960)
4) Barry Bonds (1986-2007)
5) Hank Aaron (1954-1976)
6) Ty Cobb (1905-1928)
7) Lou Gehrig (1923-1939)
8) Mickey Mantle (1951-1968)
9) Walter Johnson (1907-1927)
10) Stan Musial (1941-1963)
11) Rogers Hornsby (1915-1937)
12) Honus Wagner (1897-1917)
13) Mike Schmidt (1972-1989)
14) Rickey Henderson (1979-2003)
15) Roger Clemens (1984-2007)
16) Randy Johnson (1988-2009)
17) Tris Speaker (1907-1928)
18) Greg Maddux (1986-2008)

1876-1896 - 0
1897-1904 - 1
1905-1906 - 2
1907-1913 - 4
1914 - 5
1915-1917 - 6
1918-1922 - 5
1923-1927 - 6
1928 - 5
1929-1935 - 3
1936-1937 - 2
1938 - 1
1939 - 2
1940 - 1
1941-1950 - 2
1951-1953 - 4
1954-1960 - 5
1961-1963 - 4
1964-1968 - 3
1969-1971 - 2
1972-1973 - 3
1974-1976 - 2
1977-1978 - 1
1979-1983 - 2
1984-1985 - 3
1986-1987 - 5
1988-1989 - 6
1990-2003 - 5
2004-2007 - 4
2008 - 2
2009 - 1
2010-2024 - 0

 

[LHG]

Why all the love for Joe DiMaggio when there is arguably 7 hitters with better careers? Is it because he was a Yankee? Consider these other six:
Mike Trout (CF) 2011 - current
3 MVP, 6 top 5 MVP, ROY, 11 ASG
86.2 WAR, 65.1 WAR7
Bold: R 4, RBI 1, SB 1, BB 3, TB 1, WAR 5

OPS+ buckets
190 - 1
180 - 2
170 - 4
160 - 3

Eddie Collins (2B) 1906-1930 (career was really 1908-1926)
1 MVP, 5 top 5 MVP, 1 top 10 MVP
124.3 WAR, 64.3 WAR7
Bold: SB 4, R 3, WAR 1

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 0
170 - 2
160 - 3
150 - 2
140 - 3
130 - 3
120 - 4

Alex Rodriguez (SS-3B) 1994-2016
3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 5 down ballot MVP, 14 ASG
117.6 WAR, 64.3 WAR7
Bold: R 5, H 1, 2B 1, HR 5, RBI 2, OPS+ 2, WAR 6

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 0
170 - 2
160 - 3
150 - 2
140 - 1
130 - 5
120 - 3

Mel Ott (RF) 1926-1947
2 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 7 down ballot MVP, 11 ASG
110.9 WAR, 53.9 WAR7
Bold: R 2, HR 6, RBI 1, WAR 2

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 0
170 - 5
160 - 3
150 - 6
140 - 0
130 - 4

Nap Lajoie (2B) 1896-1916
2 down ballot MVP (introduced late in his career), no ASG were around during his career
106.9 WAR, 60.1 WAR7
Bold: R 1, H 4, 2B 5, HR 1, RBI 3, WAR 6

OPS+ buckets
190 - 3
180 - 0
170 - 1
160 - 3
150 - 2
140 - 3
130 - 4

Frank Robinson (RF-LF) 1956-1976
2 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 5 down ballot MVP, ROY, 12 ASG
Bold: R 3, 2B 1, HR 1, RBI 1, WAR 1

OPS+ buckets
190 - 1
180 - 1
170 - 1
160 - 4
150 - 6
140 - 2
130 - 2

Jimmie Foxx (1B) 1925-1945
3 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 4 down ballot MVP, 9 ASG
Bold: R 1, HR 3, RBI 3, WAR 3

OPS+ buckets
190 - 2 (both above 200)
180 - 4
170 - 1
160 - 1
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

Joe DiMaggio (CF) 1936-1951
3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 2 down ballot MVP, 13 ASG
Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 1, WAR 3

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 2
170 - 2
160 - 2
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

 

[LHG]

I won't even bother to post their numbers but other hitters to consider before Griffey, Jr:
Eddie Matthews (1952-1968)
Albert Pujols (2001-2022)
Mookie Betts (2014-present)
Roberto Clemente (1955-1972)
Joe Morgan (1963-1984)
Jeff Bagwell (1991-2005)
Dan Brouthers (1879-1904)
Wade Boggs (1982-1999)
Roger Connor (1880-1897)
Arky Vaughan (1932-1948)
Johnny Mize (1936-1953)
Carl Yastrzemski (1961-1983)
Chipper Jones (1993-2012)
George Brett (1973-1993)
Al Kaline (1953-1974)
Ed Delahanty (1888-1903)
Cal Ripken, Jr (1981-2001)
Frank Thomas (1990-2008)
Harry Heilmann (1914-1932)
Charlie Gehringer (1924-1942)

 

[calsnowskier]

We are REALLY getting into some serious traffic here. I am seriously considering stopping this at 20.

Any strong arguments for or against ending the project?

 

[LHG]

We are REALLY getting into some serious traffic here. I am seriously considering stopping this at 20.

Any strong arguments for or against ending the project?

I like the exercise and was hoping to see it last, honestly, through Top 50. But this isn't me doing it so I would understand that you'd stop it before then.

Edit: Is there a way to force votes to post a reason for their votes?

 

[Clayton]

Edit: Is there a way to force votes to post a reason for their votes?

I think I've mentioned four or five times why I've voted for players like DiMaggio, Pedro, and Pujols.

I've kinda lost interest in this tbh. If this was a tier list, there would be a ton of players in it.

 

[msgkings322]

We are REALLY getting into some serious traffic here. I am seriously considering stopping this at 20.

Any strong arguments for or against ending the project?

It’s completely up to you as the organizer but I’d be interested up to about 30. 50 is too much

 

[Cedrique]

We are REALLY getting into some serious traffic here. I am seriously considering stopping this at 20.

Any strong arguments for or against ending the project?

I don't care if you end it or not. I'll still be voting. In fact I ain't neva gonna stop voting!

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't care if you end it or not. I'll still be voting. In fact I ain't neva gonna stop voting!

Some call you the Voter from Valencia…

 

[msgkings322]

I don't care if you end it or not. I'll still be voting. In fact I ain't neva gonna stop voting!

So you’re like a dead Democrat

 

[eaglesnut]

This could go to 30 easy.

The votng is actually the easy part.

 

[steveringo]

A quick top 50?

Everyone submit their own top 25 (or so)...

25 points for every first place vote; 24 for every second, and so on...

 

[broncosmitty]

I won't even bother to post their numbers but other hitters to consider before Griffey, Jr:
Eddie Matthews (1952-1968)
Albert Pujols (2001-2022)
Mookie Betts (2014-present)
Roberto Clemente (1955-1972)
Joe Morgan (1963-1984)
Jeff Bagwell (1991-2005)
Dan Brouthers (1879-1904)
Wade Boggs (1982-1999)
Roger Connor (1880-1897)
Arky Vaughan (1932-1948)
Johnny Mize (1936-1953)
Carl Yastrzemski (1961-1983)
Chipper Jones (1993-2012)
George Brett (1973-1993)
Al Kaline (1953-1974)
Ed Delahanty (1888-1903)
Cal Ripken, Jr (1981-2001)
Frank Thomas (1990-2008)
Harry Heilmann (1914-1932)
Charlie Gehringer (1924-1942)

Hank Greenberg?

He’s not far below Albert for best RHH left on the board imo.

 

[broncosmitty]

We are REALLY getting into some serious traffic here. I am seriously considering stopping this at 20.

Any strong arguments for or against ending the project?

I’ll vote and read as long as you keep doing this.

 

[broncosmitty]

Why all the love for Joe DiMaggio when there is arguably 7 hitters with better careers? Is it because he was a Yankee? Consider these other six:
Mike Trout (CF) 2011 - current
3 MVP, 6 top 5 MVP, ROY, 11 ASG
86.2 WAR, 65.1 WAR7
Bold: R 4, RBI 1, SB 1, BB 3, TB 1, WAR 5

OPS+ buckets
190 - 1
180 - 2
170 - 4
160 - 3

Eddie Collins (2B) 1906-1930 (career was really 1908-1926)
1 MVP, 5 top 5 MVP, 1 top 10 MVP
124.3 WAR, 64.3 WAR7
Bold: SB 4, R 3, WAR 1

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 0
170 - 2
160 - 3
150 - 2
140 - 3
130 - 3
120 - 4

Alex Rodriguez (SS-3B) 1994-2016
3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 5 down ballot MVP, 14 ASG
117.6 WAR, 64.3 WAR7
Bold: R 5, H 1, 2B 1, HR 5, RBI 2, OPS+ 2, WAR 6

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 0
170 - 2
160 - 3
150 - 2
140 - 1
130 - 5
120 - 3

Mel Ott (RF) 1926-1947
2 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 7 down ballot MVP, 11 ASG
110.9 WAR, 53.9 WAR7
Bold: R 2, HR 6, RBI 1, WAR 2

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 0
170 - 5
160 - 3
150 - 6
140 - 0
130 - 4

Nap Lajoie (2B) 1896-1916
2 down ballot MVP (introduced late in his career), no ASG were around during his career
106.9 WAR, 60.1 WAR7
Bold: R 1, H 4, 2B 5, HR 1, RBI 3, WAR 6

OPS+ buckets
190 - 3
180 - 0
170 - 1
160 - 3
150 - 2
140 - 3
130 - 4

Frank Robinson (RF-LF) 1956-1976
2 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 5 down ballot MVP, ROY, 12 ASG
Bold: R 3, 2B 1, HR 1, RBI 1, WAR 1

OPS+ buckets
190 - 1
180 - 1
170 - 1
160 - 4
150 - 6
140 - 2
130 - 2

Jimmie Foxx (1B) 1925-1945
3 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 4 down ballot MVP, 9 ASG
Bold: R 1, HR 3, RBI 3, WAR 3

OPS+ buckets
190 - 2 (both above 200)
180 - 4
170 - 1
160 - 1
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

Joe DiMaggio (CF) 1936-1951
3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 2 down ballot MVP, 13 ASG
Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 1, WAR 3

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 2
170 - 2
160 - 2
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

North Korea, South Korea, Marilyn Monroe.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Why all the love for Joe DiMaggio when there is arguably 7 hitters with better careers? Is it because he was a Yankee? Consider these other six:
Mike Trout (CF) 2011 - current
3 MVP, 6 top 5 MVP, ROY, 11 ASG
86.2 WAR, 65.1 WAR7
Bold: R 4, RBI 1, SB 1, BB 3, TB 1, WAR 5

OPS+ buckets
190 - 1
180 - 2
170 - 4
160 - 3

Eddie Collins (2B) 1906-1930 (career was really 1908-1926)
1 MVP, 5 top 5 MVP, 1 top 10 MVP
124.3 WAR, 64.3 WAR7
Bold: SB 4, R 3, WAR 1

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 0
170 - 2
160 - 3
150 - 2
140 - 3
130 - 3
120 - 4

Alex Rodriguez (SS-3B) 1994-2016
3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 5 down ballot MVP, 14 ASG
117.6 WAR, 64.3 WAR7
Bold: R 5, H 1, 2B 1, HR 5, RBI 2, OPS+ 2, WAR 6

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 0
170 - 2
160 - 3
150 - 2
140 - 1
130 - 5
120 - 3

Mel Ott (RF) 1926-1947
2 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 7 down ballot MVP, 11 ASG
110.9 WAR, 53.9 WAR7
Bold: R 2, HR 6, RBI 1, WAR 2

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 0
170 - 5
160 - 3
150 - 6
140 - 0
130 - 4

Nap Lajoie (2B) 1896-1916
2 down ballot MVP (introduced late in his career), no ASG were around during his career
106.9 WAR, 60.1 WAR7
Bold: R 1, H 4, 2B 5, HR 1, RBI 3, WAR 6

OPS+ buckets
190 - 3
180 - 0
170 - 1
160 - 3
150 - 2
140 - 3
130 - 4

Frank Robinson (RF-LF) 1956-1976
2 MVP, 4 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 5 down ballot MVP, ROY, 12 ASG
Bold: R 3, 2B 1, HR 1, RBI 1, WAR 1

OPS+ buckets
190 - 1
180 - 1
170 - 1
160 - 4
150 - 6
140 - 2
130 - 2

Jimmie Foxx (1B) 1925-1945
3 MVP, 1 top 5 MVP, 3 top 10 MVP, 4 down ballot MVP, 9 ASG
Bold: R 1, HR 3, RBI 3, WAR 3

OPS+ buckets
190 - 2 (both above 200)
180 - 4
170 - 1
160 - 1
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

Joe DiMaggio (CF) 1936-1951
3 MVP, 3 top 5 MVP, 4 top 10 MVP, 2 down ballot MVP, 13 ASG
Bold: R 1, 3B 1, HR 2, RBI 1, WAR 3

OPS+ buckets
190 - 0
180 - 2
170 - 2
160 - 2
150 - 2
140 - 2
130 - 1

The problem with modern players is not the actual player it’s the fans. Fans in general don’t care as much as they used to. For obvious reasons. The days players were heroes is gone.

That’s why Joe d is so popular. He was a hero as a baseball player, and then an actual hero as he spent 3 seasons in the military.

He also won 9 ws. I mean it’s obvious why he is a legend.

Most of us are baseball nerds and that’s why we are doing this experiment. But I can guarantee more people know Joe DiMaggio than almost any other baseball player. And casual fans are being polled as well.

Hell, if you ask most old baseball fans even ones who watch baseball all their lives they will still gravitate towards the bigger names. Even if they are not even close.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I really think the steroid era killed the HERO level player. Not sure how Griffey jr got out cleanly. Maybe because he denounced the Yankees. And that meant a lot to all the Yankee haters