Top 10 poll: #11 player ever

[calsnowskier]

I guess the thing with ARod is how much we penalize him. Imo, this is about where I might consider him if totally clean.

I'd be fine with "12. Alex Rodriguez*" just to acknowledge how good he was. It might be easier than justifying him at 30 or something like that

I am not a fan of taking wild guesses about “what would have been”. That is just fiction. But ignoring player X due to a technicality is equally fictitious. But ARod wasn’t okaying the same game as Schmidt. It would be akin to try to rate Tom Brady on a list of greatest baseball players ever. He played a totally different game, so it just doesn’t make sense to rate him.

Like I said. I get a calculation error in my head when I try to consider ARod. I have no idea how to account for him.

 

[chappee11]

I'm never voting Wagner, unless we get into the 20s or 30s with the list. Way too far back for me. His competition was a bunch of bricklayers and cab drivers in the offseason and pitchers throwing 86 mph fastballs. Not even getting into the lack of black and Latin and Asian players.

I think the 80’s & 90’s were probably the best era for full representation. That’s when I started watching and my favorite players growing up were Bonds, Griffey & Thomas(all black). Hell, they might have been the best 3 players at that time; but there were a LOT of great black ballplayers in that era (Rickey, Dawson, Raines, Belle, McGriff, Gooden, Strawberry etc…) as well as the full arsenal of Dominican talent and Asian talent incoming. Now there is still a massive flow from the Dominican, Venezuela & Asia, but almost none of the elite black athletes play baseball anymore. There is no way to prove this, but I think the 80’s and 90’s were the best era for overall talent.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Too many great players, not enough slots. Gotta go with what we prefer.

Mike Schmidt playing back then would have even better numbers IMO. And Wagner's today would be worse. No way to prove that, just my opinion.

Both statements are pretty safe to say.

Although wagner was pretty big for a ss at 200’pounds. So nobody knows whether he could have been a HR hitter or not. But his average would certainly go down. And he did not take walks. So his obp would be significantly worse. So him being good would all depend on him being able to hit the home run. I would like to assume he would have been able to. Because again he wasn’t a small man.

If Schmidt played before the home run, you would have to assume his ba would have improved. And as a player who always took walks. His obp would have had to be elite level. Also as a HR hitter we know he has power. So he would have likely still hit the ball hard. But just for doubles.

 

[calsnowskier]

Both statements are pretty safe to say.

Although wagner was pretty big for a ss at 200’pounds. So nobody knows whether he could have been a HR hitter or not. But his average would certainly go down. And he did not take walks. So his obp would be significantly worse. So him being good would all depend on him being able to hit the home run. I would like to assume he would have been able to. Because again he wasn’t a small man.

If Schmidt played before the home run, you would have to assume his ba would have improved. And as a player who always took walks. His obp would have had to be elite level. Also as a HR hitter we know he has power. So he would have likely still hit the ball hard. But just for doubles.

They didn’t even know what OBP was back in those days. Did Schmidt have enough power to be Ruth before Ruth was Ruth? We can assume his BA would go up because he would have changed his swing to accommodate, but we have no idea if his skillset really would have translated.

Regardless, at the end of the day, this is a pointless argument anyway. It is pure conjecture. We can only look at Schmidt vs his contemporaries compared to Wagner and his contemporaries.

 

[msgkings322]

They didn’t even know what OBP was back in those days. Did Schmidt have enough power to be Ruth before Ruth was Ruth? We can assume his BA would go up because he would have changed his swing to accommodate, but we have no idea if his skillset really would have translated.

Regardless, at the end of the day, this is a pointless argument anyway. It is pure conjecture. We can only look at Schmidt vs his contemporaries compared to Wagner and his contemporaries.

I truly feel Schmidt stood out from his contemporaries as much or more than Hornsby did from his. Not just numbers but aura. Plus I am ready to go modern. That said I am voting Hornsby now then staying modern

 

[msgkings322]

@calsnowskier unless I'm mistaken I don't see you voting in this poll. You may have explained this, I know you don't vote in the runoff unless it's to break a tie but why don't you put in your 3 nominees?

 

[calsnowskier]

@calsnowskier unless I'm mistaken I don't see you voting in this poll. You may have explained this, I know you don't vote in the runoff unless it's to break a tie but why don't you put in your 3 nominees?

I listen to arguments.

 

[msgkings322]

I listen to arguments.

Me too. Why don’t you pick nominees like the rest of us?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

my biggest problem with the pre babe ruth Era, is not the lack of home runs, but the difficulty to identify the role of the player because nobody hit home runs...

I like to place players in the ideal lineup slot first, and then measure how good they would be in that position... and measure players differently based on where i place them(real life role is not always the ideal role where i measure them)

for example, Rickey Henderson is an ideal lead off hitter, i will care less about his power stats and more about his on base skills and base running...

when i cant identify the role because of when they played, i just have difficulty measuring how good they were...

 

[Clayton]

For those who are 50+, was Mike Schmidt above Joe Morgan? Morgan's War7 is a tad bit higher

 

[LHG]

I truly feel Schmidt stood out from his contemporaries as much or more than Hornsby did from his. Not just numbers but aura. Plus I am ready to go modern. That said I am voting Hornsby now then staying modern

I know that we all will take different perspectives into picking who should be considered the best players of all time but aura just seems like we are going back to high school and this has become a popularity contest. Aura is going to be different for everyone and there were plenty of players with aura who weren't good enough to even sniff Top 250. And how do you measure aura in an era of whom the people who lived it are not alive anymore? That seems to be a whole different poll to do, which players you think are the coolest, who had the most swagger. I don't want the guys who were cool, popular or most attractive if they weren't truly at the best of their game.

 

[calsnowskier]

Me too. Why don’t you pick nominees like the rest of us?

I do

 

[msgkings322]

I do

Oh you just haven’t yet. My bad, carry on!

 

[MilkSpiller22]

not the game we are playing... but this has to be GOAT name

Heavy Johnson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Heavy Johnson. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

 

[LHG]

not the game we are playing... but this has to be GOAT name

Heavy Johnson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Heavy Johnson. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

It would be interesting to know his story. He missed playing in 1921 because of military service. Interesting to see that in a non war year, and before integration at that.
Looking at his listed height and weight, I can see how he got that nickname.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

It would be interesting to know his story. He missed playing in 1921 because of military service. Interesting to see that in a non war year, and before integration at that.
Looking at his listed height and weight, I can see how he got that nickname.

from wikipedia-
Johnson was part of the all-black 25th Infantry Wreckers, a teammate of other future ***** leaguers including Bullet Rogan, Lemuel Hawkins, and Dobie Moore. He briefly played for the St. Louis Giants in 1920 while on Army furlough,[1] hitting .300 in three games,[5] but did not join the ***** leagues until his discharge in 1922.

 

[calsnowskier]

It would be interesting to know his story. He missed playing in 1921 because of military service. Interesting to see that in a non war year, and before integration at that.
Looking at his listed height and weight, I can see how he got that nickname.

Being “just” a n-league player, I assume he got zero preferential treatment in military assignment.

Though the only military activity I could find from a simple google search for ‘21 was the final, technical end the Great War, a big naval conference and some internal labor strife. I would guess that maybe he just enlisted. Or maybe he was a reservist and was called up for the “Battle of Blair Mountain” (the internal labor conflict)

 

[LHG]

Being “just” a n-league player, I assume he got zero preferential treatment in military assignment.

Though the only military activity I could find from a simple google search for ‘21 was the final, technical end the Great War, a big naval conference and some internal labor strife. I would guess that maybe he just enlisted. Or maybe he was a reservist and was called up for the “Battle of Blair Mountain” (the internal labor conflict)

I don't know how the Reserves worked back then so its hard to say. The Wikipedia link for the 25th explains some interwar activities but mentions nothing about 1921, other than they were based out of Arizona starting in 1919.

 

[Cedrique]

For those who are 50+, was Mike Schmidt above Joe Morgan? Morgan's War7 is a tad bit higher

I have Morgan very close to Schmidt but I have Schmidt slightly higher. He was more of an impact player on defense than Morgan. Although Morgan was no slouch and won some gold gloves as well. And like I mentioned before, one of Schmidt's 7 best seasons was the shortened 1981 season so their WAR7s to me were even closer than they appeared. But they are very close in my mind. Outside of Hornsby I have Morgan as the top all time 2nd baseman. I could see people taking Morgan ahead of Schmidt. A lot of similarities. Both were with teams that had a good run of success in the 70's. Both won multiple MVPs. They even played together in the playoffs/WS in 1983.