Top 10 poll #10: #10 player in history - Runoff

[calsnowskier]

Runoff for #10 player in baseball history. Poll closes on Saturday AM. If someone does not finish with 50%+1, another runoff will be run.

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[MilkSpiller22]

Im a clemens voter... so kill me....

 

[Clayton]

Im a clemens voter... so kill me....

Funny that seems like more of a WAR pick than a prime pick.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Funny that seems like more of a WAR pick than a prime pick.

Clemens had multiple primes...

but he is also a modern player, and i just cant believe that all of our best players were before 1960s(except for bonds)

and clemens is probably the best chance for that to happen....

 

[calsnowskier]

I just can’t believe we still have a potential top 5 guy still on the board at 10. ESPN has all the cameras in his face with all the analysts talking about the “Big Fall”.

 

[calsnowskier]

It is possible that one of my top 3 will be named here. I have not had to change my stumping for a while, so the 11 nom poll may be tough for me…

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I just can’t believe we still have a potential top 5 guy still on the board at 10. ESPN has all the cameras in his face with all the analysts talking about the “Big Fall”.

in the second runoff i will pick Hornsby... but for now i want to give clemens every chance to win this.... i am debating on creating alt accounts to vote more than once...

 

[Clayton]

Clemens had multiple primes...

but he is also a modern player, and i just cant believe that all of our best players were before 1960s(except for bonds)

and clemens is probably the best chance for that to happen....

By the time the top 30 is done, we might have Bonds, Clemens, Pedro, Maddux, Pujols, ARod, Schmidt, and Henderson. Just not much up top.

 

[Cedrique]

I just can’t believe we still have a potential top 5 guy still on the board at 10. ESPN has all the cameras in his face with all the analysts talking about the “Big Fall”.

Mike Piazza?

 

[calsnowskier]

Mike Piazza?

Nope.

Brady Anderson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Brady Anderson. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

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[Cedrique]

Nope.

Brady Anderson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Brady Anderson. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

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Piazza was definitely the best 62nd round draft pick though

 

[LHG]

Piazza was definitely the best 62nd round draft pick though

Back in 1991, I went to Bakersfield to catch a minor league game. That team was loaded! Pedro Martinez, unfortunately, had just been promoted to AA but Mike Piazza and Raul Mondesi were still on the squad (although, if memory serves me correctly, Piazza had the day off that game). I made it a priority to buy the team's minor league set whenever I went to minor league games. I wonder if that set is worth anything.

Oh, Michael Busch, the scab, was on that team as well.

 

[calsnowskier]

Hornsby (2B) - 17 seasons (100 games), 127.0 career WAR, 72.9 WAR7, 2 MVP, 2 top 5 MVP

Musial (1B/LF) - 21 seasons (100 games), 128.5 career WAR, 64.5 WAR7, 3 MVP, 5 top 10 MVP, 6 top 5 MVP

Both have too much bold to list here. Hornsby played much of his career before the MVP award was a regular thing and before the all star games so his accolades are a bit sparse. Hornsby played the #5 most demanding defensive position while Musial primarily played the 2 least demanding.

 

[LHG]

Hornsby (2B) - 17 seasons (100 games), 127.0 career WAR, 72.9 WAR7, 2 MVP, 2 top 5 MVP

Musial (1B/LF) - 21 seasons (100 games), 128.5 career WAR, 64.5 WAR7, 3 MVP, 5 top 10 MVP, 6 top 5 MVP

Both have too much bold to list here. Hornsby played much of his career before the MVP award was a regular thing and before the all star games so his accolades are a bit sparse. Hornsby played the #5 most demanding defensive position while Musial primarily played the 2 least demanding.

I agree that Hornsby over Musial but I'm of the opinion Young over Hornsby.

 

[LHG]

in the second runoff i will pick Hornsby... but for now i want to give clemens every chance to win this.... i am debating on creating alt accounts to vote more than once...

I'll start voting for Clemens after Young gets in.

 

[calsnowskier]

I agree that Hornsby over Musial but I'm of the opinion Young over Hornsby.

I see there being essentially 2 groups here at this spot; hitters and pitchers. I don’t think Young OR Clemens will advance, so I am not concerned with THAT debate right now. I think this spot is really between Musial and Hornsby (by the votes, not by my opinion of merit)

 

[calsnowskier]

I'll start voting for Clemens after Young gets in.

I think that Roger is the best pitcher. But I don’t think that is a clear, unarguable position. I think Young, Gibson, Seaver, Maddux and maybe a few others belong in that discussion (with Johnson, but he is off the board).

I just don’t see any of them better than Hornsby or Wagner.

 

[Clayton]

I think that Roger is the best pitcher.

I guess whats the reasoning behind this. We've seen the pitch for Pedro. I think the case for Cy Young is backed by WAR.

 

[calsnowskier]

I guess whats the reasoning behind this. We've seen the pitch for Pedro. I think the case for Cy Young is backed by WAR.

I have made my pitch for him many times. And I feel the PRIMARY pitch against him (no pun intended) is a complete non factor for me.

and it has nothing to do with WAR. WAR, for pitching, should only be used at the brainstorm stage as you are throwing names up on the whiteboard.

 

[LHG]

I have made my pitch for him many times. And I feel the PRIMARY pitch against him (no pun intended) is a complete non factor for me.

and it has nothing to do with WAR. WAR, for pitching, should only be used at the brainstorm stage as you are throwing names up on the whiteboard.

Since WAR for pitchers is being talked about, here are the career WAR for Top 20 pitchers. The numbers are WAR, WAR7, ERA+ (number of seasons in parenthesis):
Cy Young - 163.6, 78, 138 (22)
Roger Clemens - 139.2, 65.9, 143 (24)
Grover Alexander - 119.6, 69.8, 135 (20)
Kid Nichols - 116.3, 74.5, 139 (15)
Tom Seaver - 109.9, 59.3, 127 (20)
Lefty Grove - 106.8, 65.6, 148 (17)
Christy Matthewson - 106.7, 70.2, 136 (17)
Greg Maddux - 106.6, 56.3, 132 (23)
Randy Johnson - 101.1, 61.5, 135 (22)
Warren Spahn - 100.1, 51.5, 119 (21)
Phil Niekro - 95.9, 54.3, 115 (24)
Bert Blyleven - 94.5, 50.3, 118 (22)
Steve Carlton - 90.2, 54.3, 115 (24)
Gaylord Perry - 90, 52.3, 117 (22)
Bob Gibson - 89.2, 51.2, 127 (17)
Tim Keefe - 86.9, 66.4, 126 (14)
Robin Roberts - 86.1, 55.1, 113 (19)
Fergie Jenkins - 84.2, 51.4, 115 (19)
Pedro Martinez - 83.9, 58.2, 154 (18)
Mike Mussina - 82.8, 44.5, 123 (18)