Top 10 poll #8: #8 player in history - Runoff

[calsnowskier]

Mussina is interesting... he was actually the WAR darling... I don't think he would have gotten in so fast if he was eligible a few years before... if he would have even gotten in... but he was eligible when WAR was getting popular... so voters went heavy on WAR...

I BASICALLY ignore WAR for pitchers (as I have stated many times here).

And to be honest, I had completely forgotten that Mussina was in the HOF. I had to look it up just to confirm it.

For such a recent inductee, that is not a good sign for their inclusion.

 

[calsnowskier]

LOL

He was inducted in the same class with Edgar and Baines.

WORST
CLASS
EVER

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I don’t even look at it or acknowledge it. If you want to argue that I do through my “love” of OPS, than OK. I will not defend myself against such an odd attack.

that's not really what I am talking about...but sure OBP and OPS are going to be affected heavily by BA...

but the point is still that with such a significant BA deflation in baseball, and it has clearly not been calculated good enough... otherwise we would not see every top list being dominated by the yesteryear players that none of us have ever seen...

and why the 1970s-1990s gets basically no love... ever...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I BASICALLY ignore WAR for pitchers (as I have stated many times here).

And to be honest, I had completely forgotten that Mussina was in the HOF. I had to look it up just to confirm it.

For such a recent inductee, that is not a good sign for their inclusion.

I know... not talking about you... I am talking about the HOF voters, and why Mussina got in... he was a WAR darling, when WAR was on its rise...

 

[LHG]

I do agree all eras have its own issues... the biggest point that I truly believe is that although the elites would be elite in any era, the average player has improved dramatically... and as the average player gets better, statistics are just harder to see the type of numbers we have seen...

I do think It is fair to say that the consistent dominant numbers would be harder to reach in a later era...

Not saying you are arguing this but I do find it interesting how I hear complaints about how expansion baseball has watered down MLB talent while I also hear arguments about how the average player is better today. I'm not sure both can be the case yet no one seems to address the incongruity between these two well believed ideas about baseball.

 

[calsnowskier]

that's not really what I am talking about...but sure OBP and OPS are going to be affected heavily by BA...

but the point is still that with such a significant BA deflation in baseball, and it has clearly not been calculated good enough... otherwise we would not see every top list being dominated by the yesteryear players that none of us have ever seen...

and why the 1970s-1990s gets basically no love... ever...

Bonds is already on the board. Henderson, Griffey, Clemens and Schmidt, I think, will all be top 20.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Not saying you are arguing this but I do find it interesting how I hear complaints about how expansion baseball has watered down MLB talent while I also hear arguments about how the average player is better today. I'm not sure both can be the case yet no one seems to address the incongruity between these two well believed ideas about baseball.

it can both be true... but I don't believe that talent has been watered down... the problem now isn't the talent... its the distribution of the talent... and the unwillingness of some teams to improve...

how often do we hear how a prospect is being blocked, and being blocked by someone not even that good... baseball itself has many problems...

with all that said, the actual talent has to be increasing with the science... bigger faster stronger... the problem with that is that the perception is that we stay still because that better is throughout all positions...

even in the 90s, how many pitchers per team do you think were able to reach 95 mph??

so its the speed of pitching, and then the ability to hit those pitches...

now, sure with these improvements we have sacrificed a lot... we have sacrificed pitchers pitching more than 5 innings, we have sacrificed batters striking out less than 100 per season...

 

[chappee11]

I BASICALLY ignore WAR for pitchers (as I have stated many times here).

And to be honest, I had completely forgotten that Mussina was in the HOF. I had to look it up just to confirm it.

For such a recent inductee, that is not a good sign for their inclusion.

That’s exactly why I mentioned Mussina with regard to Schilling. I’m guessing if we put it to vote, most would prefer Schilling by a wide margin. He was the better pitcher and he won 3 WS and was a WS MVP along the way, too. It is borderline criminal that Schilling was kept out over wrongthink.

 

[calsnowskier]

That’s exactly why I mentioned Mussina with regard to Schilling. I’m guessing if we put it to vote, most would prefer Schilling by a wide margin. He was the better pitcher and he won 3 WS and was a WS MVP along the way, too. It is borderline criminal that Schilling was kept out over wrongthink.

I try to steer clear of this here, but I think it is pretty obvious that his political leanings have more to do with his exclusion than any other factor.