Too early to talk about draft

[HaroldSeattle]

Well he played pretty good in the games he started, but it was against lesser teams.

Started 5 games has 8 solo tackles and 6 assisted, no sacks........

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Hopefully y’all don’t mind me Crashing you site. I just can’t go to the Rams board - I love Retro but just over the top there. It was a mess last year when we won lol

Sure post when you like.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Started 5 games has 8 solo tackles and 6 assisted, no sacks........

Yeah but he seemed to be allowing plays from the rest of the DL. If he's able to absorb a couple guys and plug a lane, it's not bad value. Is it top 15 value? Eh... that's arguable... I know the Eagles still run a 4-3, but if you can get a guy that commands double teams quite often or just plugs up a running lane up the gut, your faster DEs/DTs can make plays where they're not always tickin' the stack sheet. Now again, do I want that in a top 15 pick? Eh..... a nose tackle type as a top 15 is hard to argue for... but it does have value. Jalen is not a nose tackle DT by any stretch.

From the games he played, Jordan Davis is not blowing up plays necessarily in the backfield or generating a lot of pass pressure, but he is freezing lineman at times (sometimes a double team) and stonewalling the opposing line. When I say stonewalling, you're not allowing any push, you're keeping the offensive lineman in place and secured and fully occupying with proper gap assignment, allowing quicker/faster guys to blow through those gaps and skip the Olineman. And when Olines can't get any push and are stuck in place, it makes it MUUUUCH harder for the RBACK.

He also took various double teams which is impressive for a rookie. He certainly has some things to work on, but I can't look at just the stats. So far he's been mostly fine against single teams... but he's still creating stagnation on opposing offensive lines where teams are moving away from him (not on all plays).

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Hopefully y’all don’t mind me Crashing you site. I just can’t go to the Rams board - I love Retro but just over the top there. It was a mess last year when we won lol

Oh you're fine SJ. No harm posting here.

And yes, Davis would 100% be starting (if healthy) for Seattle... because Al Woods is too old for nose tackle play and the rest of the DL can't fill that role... and Barton/Taylor are some of the worst run defenders in the league.

I think Davis is an excellent prospect at nose tackle assuming he stays healthy which is difficult at his size weight, but he will plug the run nicely (and he's done that if you watch the NFL footage, not necessarily commanding double teams but freezing centers/guards and the lane). Now is that worth a top 15 pick? Ehh.... could be argued against/for... a 3-4/hybrid/2-4-5 or 3-3-5 defense relies on that, so yah.... I find it interesting the Eagles took Davis that high with their current 4-3 scheme, but if Davis continues to improve it will make them very strong against the run...

That said, it'd be nice if Seattle had him at the moment (again assuming health)... I don't believe it'd be worth trading down and giving up Charles Cross, but yah...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Yeah but he seemed to be allowing plays from the rest of the DL. If he's able to absorb a couple guys and plug a lane, it's not bad value. Is it top 15 value? Eh... that's arguable... I know the Eagles still run a 4-3, but if you can get a guy that commands double teams quite often or just plugs up a running lane up the gut, your faster DEs/DTs can make plays where they're not always tickin' the stack sheet. Now again, do I want that in a top 15 pick? Eh..... a nose tackle type as a top 15 is hard to argue for... but it does have value. Jalen is not a nose tackle DT by any stretch.

From the games he played, Jordan Davis is not blowing up plays necessarily in the backfield or generating a lot of pass pressure, but he is freezing lineman at times (sometimes a double team) and stonewalling the opposing line. When I say stonewalling, you're not allowing any push, you're keeping the offensive lineman in place and secured and fully occupying with proper gap assignment, allowing quicker/faster guys to blow through those gaps and skip the Olineman. And when Olines can't get any push and are stuck in place, it makes it MUUUUCH harder for the RBACK.

He also took various double teams which is impressive for a rookie. He certainly has some things to work on, but I can't look at just the stats. So far he's been mostly fine against single teams... but he's still creating stagnation on opposing offensive lines where teams are moving away from him (not on all plays).

Can't say I have been able to watch him like that so I went searching for film, found this:


Judge for your self. Has he been a monster, special, or OK or just another guy.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Can't say I have been able to watch him like that so I went searching for film, found this:


Judge for your self. Has he been a monster, special, or OK or just another guy.

Eh some holding plays there that never got called. He froze up some guys. I've seen this same clip. The Detroit OL and offense actually started off pretty good... they just basically lost their entire offense to injury (which was incredible because they nearly beat us missing like half their starting offense)... And that's his first NFL game... again against a decent OL at the time (pretty sure before most were getting injured)... I expect growing pains... that takes some time to adjust, he looked better in some other ones.

Has been a monster, special? Well no... the guy is on fuckin' IR. Has he made some impacts in the games he did play? I'd argue yes... he's absorbing blocks, hitting gap assignments, and filling up some lanes. Is he just another guy? Well so far, yah? Most nose tackle type players are. Is there potential there? Sure. Do I fully understand why Philly drafted him in a 4-3 base defense at #13? No. Would I prefer him on Seattle's team over Cross? No.

Let's be clear, Davis is NEVER going to be some 5+ sack guy.... he's "Get the fat guy in there to stuff shit." guy... and those guys always look underwhelming but have a crucial role. I'm still confused why Philly felt the need for that, but it has a role.

 

[MrS]

Can't say I have been able to watch him like that so I went searching for film, found this:


Judge for your self. Has he been a monster, special, or OK or just another guy.

PFF has him graded higher than any of our current IDL, al woods and harris are ~72 davis is about ~78. the rest of our IDL is basically putrid according to PFF.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

PFF has him graded higher than any of our current IDL, al woods and harris are ~72 davis is about ~78. the rest of our IDL is basically putrid according to PFF.

Yes, we could use some upgrading in the interior. Davis was vastly overhyped last year and he didn't play like some stud this season and now he's on the IR. Too early to call him a bust but he's going to have to do better. It's always hard to forecast correctly the jump from college to pro and busts are normal not the exception at all positions. Like QB things like the scheme, coaching staff, health, and players around them all have an effect.

 

[Anointed One]

Definitely think anything more than 25 for Geno is crazy talk.

And he should take 25. This fucking guy was nearly out of the league. Take your 4 years 100 mil and be thrilled

I think 33 is the magic number at this point... That's what the franchise tag would be...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I think 33 is the magic number at this point... That's what the franchise tag would be...

You think he would be worth 33?

 

[Anointed One]

You think he would be worth 33?

For a 1 year contract? yes.. Considering starting QB's are getting 50+ million now...

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I think 33 is the magic number at this point... That's what the franchise tag would be...

Franchising him twice would probably be the go to if it was me.

It just seems unlikely he's going to be worth a big deal (yes I'm aware the irony seeing as I'm a Browns fan lol)

 

[HaroldSeattle]

For a 1 year contract? yes.. Considering starting QB's are getting 50+ million now...

Seahawks don’t even have 33 million in effective cap space in 2023.

 

[JMR]

21 out of 32 is enough to indicate that the vast majority of starters get drafted in the first round. Yes an occasional exception like Brady or Wilson happens or Dalton, Carr or Jimmy G, or Geno ( tier 2 or 3 types), but some are Davis mills or Taylor Heinicke of the world. Overall they are rare and your much more likely to end up with a Mills or Heinicke then a Brady or Wilson.

Yes I am looking for the best chance to land a franchise QB and not have to get by with a Jimmy G. type. We all should. I get that some feel taking
a Will Anderson or Jalen Carter is a safer bet or more sure bet, but is it? I'm not so sure, as every position has a history of busts with early picks, Seahawk fans remember Brian Bosworth and Aaron Curry for example. QB is the supreme important position and by far the hardest to fill properly.
So yes for the future of the team we need to consider taking a QB first and only passing on that if there is only busts left to choose from and I don't think that is established yet. If that turns out to be the case......well it's going to be a long long search for a frachise QB then, barring a football miracle, but the team will be semi good at least, so there is that.

Lots of time to evaluate the QBs in the draft and the ones rated highest today may not be come draft time. If they take a QB with the Broncos 1st that still leaves a 1st, two 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th,a 5th and a 6th to fill out the roster ( I think).

You are operating under an assumption/premise that the team will be faced with filling an acute QB need in the draft, whether that is an immediate starter or QB of the future, or both. I just don't know if that is going to be the case, and in fact I think there is a good chance it won't be. However, we should be able to confirm or deny that not later than a few days into free agency. By then, we'll have 1 of the following situations happen:

• Geno Smith has been re-signed as the current and future (3-5 years) solution at QB
• Geno Smith signed elsewhere, with no player being signed in free agency as a replacement
• Geno Smith signed elsewhere, but with a replacement QB signed in free agency (or acquired via trade)

The only way I see this front office entertaining the idea of taking a QB with its best pick in the upcoming draft is if Geno Smith leaves and we don't bring in a guy who they see as the 3-5 year answer at the position. If Geno comes back with a new contract, we are not blowing a top 5 pick on a QB.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

You are operating under an assumption/premise that the team will be faced with filling an acute QB need in the draft, whether that is an immediate starter or QB of the future, or both. I just don't know if that is going to be the case, and in fact I think there is a good chance it won't be. However, we should be able to confirm or deny that not later than a few days into free agency. By then, we'll have 1 of the following situations happen:

• Geno Smith has been re-signed as the current and future (3-5 years) solution at QB
• Geno Smith signed elsewhere, with no player being signed in free agency as a replacement
• Geno Smith signed elsewhere, but with a replacement QB signed in free agency (or acquired via trade)

The only way I see this front office entertaining the idea of taking a QB with its best pick in the upcoming draft is if Geno Smith leaves and we don't bring in a guy who they see as the 3-5 year answer at the position. If Geno comes back with a new contract, we are not blowing a top 5 pick on a QB.

I am operating as if the Seahawks have a need at QB. Doubt next year Geno has the same kind of season, as this year seems like a fluke. The Seahawk's cap space has dwindled down for 2023, and paying Geno franchise money isn't in the cards IMO. Never know what PC/JS will do, I give you that, but I believe they'll draft a QB that has the potential to be a franchise QB for the team. Time will tell.

 

[JMR]

I am operating as if the Seahawks have a need at QB. Doubt next year Geno has the same kind of season, as this year seems like a fluke. The Seahawk's cap space has dwindled down for 2023, and paying Geno franchise money isn't in the cards IMO. Never know what PC/JS will do, I give you that, but I believe they'll draft a QB that has the potential to be a franchise QB for the team. Time will tell.

That last part is awfully subjective. Let's bracket it a bit. If the team brings back Geno on a 5 year deal for starter money, do you think the team *should* take a QB with their top pick in the '23 draft? If not, where would you see them taking one?

 

[MrS]

If we resign Geno there is almost no way we spend the #3-5 pick on a QB. Picking a QB that high means he is starting, period.

 

[Anointed One]

If we resign Geno there is almost no way we spend the #3-5 pick on a QB. Picking a QB that high means he is starting, period.

I agree. But I could see us taking one in rounds 4-6 if that was the case…

 

[HaroldSeattle]

That last part is awfully subjective. Let's bracket it a bit. If the team brings back Geno on a 5 year deal for starter money, do you think the team *should* take a QB with their top pick in the '23 draft? If not, where would you see them taking one?

Seahawks are not going to do that IMO. I don't think Geno will be back and if he is it's because he signs a Jimmy G. type contract.



Signing Geno to a 5 year starter contract would be plum stupid, not going to happen.

 

[JMR]

Seahawks are not going to do that IMO. I don't think Geno will be back and if he is it's because he signs a Jimmy G. type contract.

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Signing Geno to a 5 year starter contract would be plum stupid, not going to happen.

Whether signing Geno to a contract for X dollars wasn't the question.

It's plain as day that a possible option is Geno is back here as the starter for a multi-year deal. If that happens, *should* the Seahawks use their top pick on a QB in the '23 draft? It's a simple yes or no.

EDIT: and if you so choose, you can replace Geno Smith in the scenario with any of the looming free agent QBs. The point of the question is to determine if you're just hell bent on a QB with the top pick no matter what, or if you would acknowledge that there are circumstances where it wouldn't make sense to do so.