Series Thread: tOfficial Mariners 2019 Season Thread

[Cloud]

I've been really busy so I haven't been posting much but last night's game was probably the first I've watched more than a couple innings of in a month.

I probably bitch about play-by-play more than anyone on this planet, but I sincerely hate Goldsmith on Mariners broadcasts. Ironically he's actually pretty tolerable when he calls football. I'm looking forward to when he bolts somewhere else. I can't recall exactly what he was saying but I remember last night when I was watching the game, he was really pissing me off.

Before Goldsmith was hired I used to hate Sims and I don't know if I've warmed up to Sims or if Goldsmith irritates me so much that in comparison Sims is amazing.

One observation I've made is that on Mariners broadcasts whenever he is teamed with Blowers I can tell that he absolutely hates it. I don't know how to articulate it but it seems there is absolutely no chemistry between the two of them.

I have not watched for few months now but I don’t disagree with you in regards to Goldsmith. I watched last night for Felix and the guy was intolerable like always.

 

[wazzu31]

Just reduce the number of games. I think 162 games over the course of 6-7 months is too much. Maybe I’m having this perspective because this team has been so bad for so long and by the time June rolls around, I’m out.

But from another perspective of too many games, baseball seems to be the only sport that overlaps with every other major sports. As a matter of fact, it overlaps with basketball TWICE throughout the year (In April-June during bball playoffs and in October during bball start of season).

I’d be okay with like 132 game season or something.

Makes sense as well but again the owners nor MLBPA would ever sign off that. I’m fine with 162, I just wish they would be smart about it. Like it or not football has taken over so condense the season where only your playoffs are fighting for viewership. They have kept the same model they have for such a long time. They acknowledged that more people had jobs they couldn’t skip and had night games. Now evolve with how the most attended games are the weekends so double dip on those. You will lose a little bit of money with tickets but will more than make of up for it. Especially in Seattle where you don’t have to cut the hipsters off in the 7th inning when you can get away with it because there is another game. The hipster who is passed out drunk still made them more money than the person who didn’t show up at all for one game.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Na, it will be the A’s. Without extra NFL coming into Oakland they won’t have money to keep that stadium from being condemned by the CDC. The Rays are going to end up in Montreal.

I haven't followed it too closely so I don't know where they are in the process, but I saw the renderings for the proposed new stadium for the A's and it looked pretty amazing. If they get that done, I think they'll stay in the Bay Area.

 

[seahawksfan234]

But it’s really not. There is no logical (IMO) baseball players today get 10 times the off days than they did in the 60’s. Owners nor the players union will do what they should do and that is give 1 day off of a week but do double headers on Saturday or Sunday.

Your last part I think we touched on before. The fact ticket prices are so high is a dumb business decision IMO and why baseball is falling behind two sports that have legit economical and social issues in football and basketball. Slash the prices, get them in the gate for $1 for all I care. You will make more money with a sellout at discounted prices than half full at full price because of what you said, concessions and merchandise. That philosophy is the main reason that minor league baseball is semi profitable or at a minimum breaks even as opposed to football and basketball that can’t ever sustain a minor league. The Arizona Fall League > The G League or NFL Europe.

One of the reasons I love banting back and forth with you is that you always challenge me and bring up good points.

I wonder what the pros and cons are of doing a double header. Haven't thought much about it.

We've definitely discussed the economics of baseball and I think we completely agree on this. One of the reasons I used to attend a dozen or so games a year was due to the fact that a friend of mine who works for the Mariners would always give me club level tickets for free. With how much they charge for food and drinks, I'd normally spend over $40 on drinks alone. If the tickets were cheaper, I'd go more often and spend that money in the stadium. I just can't justify spending $20ish bucks on a shitty ticket and then go spend another $40+ on drinks and food.

For a franchise that is emphasizing analytics so much, you would think they would apply that to their business model. I'd be curious to know their justification for it. Perhaps they think that lowering single game ticket prices would undermine season ticket holders which generates a lot of revenue for them.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I guess it's nice know I'm not the only one who has issues with Goldsmith. It's like this for me: If I turn on a game and I hear Aaron's voice, I say to myself "oh shit, it's asshole again" so I'm already in a crappy mood before I even see how the M's are doing.

I was relatively neutral on Goldsmith until I heard him on the FOX broadcast of the Angels - Mariners game. Whoever was in the booth with him was shitting on the Mariners and whenever the Angels did something positive he acted like the Angels had just won the World Series. I know there isn't much to defend about the Mariners and that on a national broadcast you're supposed to be impartial, but dude at least defend the team that employs you for Christ sake.

That aside, whenever Goldsmith is in the booth it's a one man show. I've come to appreciate Sims more because he at least has a dialogue with whoever else is in the booth with him.

When it comes to Seattle, IMO the best talent is on radio. Love listening to Rick Rizz and Steve Raible. When Niehaus was alive I remember wishing that Rizz and Niehaus would be doing the television broadcasts.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Just reduce the number of games. I think 162 games over the course of 6-7 months is too much. Maybe I’m having this perspective because this team has been so bad for so long and by the time June rolls around, I’m out.

But from another perspective of too many games, baseball seems to be the only sport that overlaps with every other major sports. As a matter of fact, it overlaps with basketball TWICE throughout the year (In April-June during bball playoffs and in October during bball start of season).

I’d be okay with like 132 game season or something.

Good points. I think the fact that there are so many games diminishes the ticket value. If they're going to do days off, it should be during the week and when there are NFL/NBA games. I love day games but I have no idea how they get people in the stadium on a Wednesday at 1pm. With how often I go out of town, I'd never waste a day off going to a Mariners game on a Wednesday even if they were a decent team.

Irrespective of scheduling, if the Mariners were a legitimate playoff contender and established some sort of reputation I don't think they'd have any issue getting fans in the stadium.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I have not watched for few months now but I don’t disagree with you in regards to Goldsmith. I watched last night for Felix and the guy was intolerable like always.

My only regret about not watching is that the box score only tells so much. If I'm not watching the game, I can't reliably speak about someone's defensive play.

 

[Cloud]

A’s take the too WC spot!!!
Imagine winning 97 games and only good for WC. Yikes.

 

[Cloud]

Makes sense as well but again the owners nor MLBPA would ever sign off that. I’m fine with 162, I just wish they would be smart about it. Like it or not football has taken over so condense the season where only your playoffs are fighting for viewership. They have kept the same model they have for such a long time. They acknowledged that more people had jobs they couldn’t skip and had night games. Now evolve with how the most attended games are the weekends so double dip on those. You will lose a little bit of money with tickets but will more than make of up for it. Especially in Seattle where you don’t have to cut the hipsters off in the 7th inning when you can get away with it because there is another game. The hipster who is passed out drunk still made them more money than the person who didn’t show up at all for one game.

I totally agree with your points completely. One other thing I would argue is that they really need to find ways to cut the game time down considerably....the replay system imo has done more harm than good to the sport and I know they are trying to find ways to speed up the games but it isn’t working.

Majority of the fanbase everywhere goes to the game as a social event rather than watching the game, so unless your team is competing, the ballparks are just a gathering event. But yup, at the end of the day, whatever they can do to make money.

 

[wazzu31]

I haven't followed it too closely so I don't know where they are in the process, but I saw the renderings for the proposed new stadium for the A's and it looked pretty amazing. If they get that done, I think they'll stay in the Bay Area.

I haven’t seen the renderings for the A’s but if Oakland hasn’t been willing to put any legit money into that dump since whenever the Raiders first moved or update Oracle Arena I highly doubt they’d do what it takes to either build a new one of nuke the Coliseum and turn it into a baseball only park. I guess I don’t know the politics down there but it doesn’t seem like there has been a massive political shift like there was in Seattle from the early to mid 90’s to when the Sonics were sold. I could be totally be wrong and would much prefer them to stay in Oakland.

 

[wazzu31]

One of the reasons I love banting back and forth with you is that you always challenge me and bring up good points.

I wonder what the pros and cons are of doing a double header. Haven't thought much about it.

We've definitely discussed the economics of baseball and I think we completely agree on this. One of the reasons I used to attend a dozen or so games a year was due to the fact that a friend of mine who works for the Mariners would always give me club level tickets for free. With how much they charge for food and drinks, I'd normally spend over $40 on drinks alone. If the tickets were cheaper, I'd go more often and spend that money in the stadium. I just can't justify spending $20ish bucks on a shitty ticket and then go spend another $40+ on drinks and food.

For a franchise that is emphasizing analytics so much, you would think they would apply that to their business model. I'd be curious to know their justification for it. Perhaps they think that lowering single game ticket prices would undermine season ticket holders which generates a lot of revenue for them.

The only cons for a double header that I can think of is for the owners. Right now players lose off days for make ups, so just schedule doubleheader on weekends then take 1 or 2 off days during the week. Players won’t lose money, no increase safety risks. Shortening the season though would send a seismic shift to where players would lose out on future earnings and will a contentious CBA coming up I think that’s a no go.

Ya the ticket thing I think we agree upon. There must be some behind closed doors agreement amongst owners. Because of the outdate Supreme Court ruling the owners can collude as much as they want against fans. And as it stands right now if any owner of a franchise in any of the 3 big sports is losing money they need to sell the team and be put in a life raft and sent off into the sea. I don’t have graphs or whatever but with the whole Roots Sports, sponsors and other revenue sharing baseball has I think the Mariners would still make a profit if they didn’t sell one single game ticket. My theory on that is the whole how you said you got your club seats. In my early 20’s that was the only I could attend a Mariners game was because of friend of a friend or whatever’s boss was giving away tickets. On my route I have a doctor who has season tickets and hasn’t been to a game in years.

 

[wazzu31]

I totally agree with your points completely. One other thing I would argue is that they really need to find ways to cut the game time down considerably....the replay system imo has done more harm than good to the sport and I know they are trying to find ways to speed up the games but it isn’t working.

Majority of the fanbase everywhere goes to the game as a social event rather than watching the game, so unless your team is competing, the ballparks are just a gathering event. But yup, at the end of the day, whatever they can do to make money.

To me the time isn’t as big of a deal because if it’s an entertaining game, to me at least, the time doesn’t matter. Overall though the product of baseball is down because teams are tanking. I was completely against replay in baseball for one simple fact, an umpire is still the deciding factor. The Umpires Union is no where near as humble or out for the best interest of the game like NBA and NFL officials are. Drunk Bob at the bar would be better at reviewing replay than another umpire. But that is just my opinion.

I think throughout the country in the golden ages of baseball it was still a get together like it is now though. Seattle is a little different than say Chicago, Boston, NY and Philly. For some reason in the NW we are the most anti social people. In elevators in other parts of the country you can say hi to someone and them not look at you like you are Mormon trying to covert them.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I haven’t seen the renderings for the A’s but if Oakland hasn’t been willing to put any legit money into that dump since whenever the Raiders first moved or update Oracle Arena I highly doubt they’d do what it takes to either build a new one of nuke the Coliseum and turn it into a baseball only park. I guess I don’t know the politics down there but it doesn’t seem like there has been a massive political shift like there was in Seattle from the early to mid 90’s to when the Sonics were sold. I could be totally be wrong and would much prefer them to stay in Oakland.

Here is a link to the renderings:

Oakland A's release new renderings of their proposed stadium

I don't know where they're at in the process and I'm way too lazy to look it up, but that looks like a really fuckin' cool stadium. I'm also unfamiliar with the politics/process or whatever down there so at this point it could be meaningless. I'd prefer for the team to stay in Oakland as well, but that's just primarily because I hate seeing franchises move. I'd love for Portland to get an MLB team but it would be unfortunate if that was the result of another city losing a team.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The only cons for a double header that I can think of is for the owners. Right now players lose off days for make ups, so just schedule doubleheader on weekends then take 1 or 2 off days during the week. Players won’t lose money, no increase safety risks. Shortening the season though would send a seismic shift to where players would lose out on future earnings and will a contentious CBA coming up I think that’s a no go.

Ya the ticket thing I think we agree upon. There must be some behind closed doors agreement amongst owners. Because of the outdate Supreme Court ruling the owners can collude as much as they want against fans. And as it stands right now if any owner of a franchise in any of the 3 big sports is losing money they need to sell the team and be put in a life raft and sent off into the sea. I don’t have graphs or whatever but with the whole Roots Sports, sponsors and other revenue sharing baseball has I think the Mariners would still make a profit if they didn’t sell one single game ticket. My theory on that is the whole how you said you got your club seats. In my early 20’s that was the only I could attend a Mariners game was because of friend of a friend or whatever’s boss was giving away tickets. On my route I have a doctor who has season tickets and hasn’t been to a game in years.

Why would a double header be a con for the owners? Not a condescending question, just curious why you think that. Decrease in overall revenue for the second game of a double header?

I think when it comes to the ticketing I'm just curious what the business justification is for not lowering ticket prices to get people into the stadium. I would imagine if you did that for single game tickets or even season tickets, that would result in an overall increase in revenue. When you look at it from an economics perspective, your goal is to reach equilibrium between price, supply and demand. I feel like if the Mariners did reduce ticket prices it would help the fans and increase revenue. If the team were to suddenly become a hot ticket item, you just raise prices again. It's just that simple.

Another thing that pops into my head is how everyone who is in their 60s talk about how back in the day it wasn't so expensive to attend a football/basketball/baseball game.

 

[seahawksfan234]

To me the time isn’t as big of a deal because if it’s an entertaining game, to me at least, the time doesn’t matter. Overall though the product of baseball is down because teams are tanking. I was completely against replay in baseball for one simple fact, an umpire is still the deciding factor. The Umpires Union is no where near as humble or out for the best interest of the game like NBA and NFL officials are. Drunk Bob at the bar would be better at reviewing replay than another umpire. But that is just my opinion.

I think throughout the country in the golden ages of baseball it was still a get together like it is now though. Seattle is a little different than say Chicago, Boston, NY and Philly. For some reason in the NW we are the most anti social people. In elevators in other parts of the country you can say hi to someone and them not look at you like you are Mormon trying to covert them.

Couldn't agree more - especially with people my age. A lot of my close friends weren't born and raised in this area and the biggest complaint they have about Seattle isn't the weather, isn't the homelessness, it's how anti-social people are here. Friend of mine who did his PhD at UW but did undergrad at Texas A&M and grew up in Arkansas was mentioning to me one time he tried to strike up a conversation with someone on the bus and the guy looked at him like he had some sort of mental illness, and this guy is probably the funniest/most charismatic person I know.

I didn't really notice it until I went other places and others pointed it out to me. I've spent probably 90% of my life within 15 miles of Seattle and I consider myself pretty outgoing - I mean shit just look at my posts, I can't shut the fuck up and will talk about anything - but if some random person starts chatting me up at a coffee shop or something I'm wondering when they're going to either try to sell me something or try to get me involved in their pyramid scheme.

I think it's kind of self reinforcing because I find it strange when someone strikes up a random conversation with me and figure if I do that to someone else, they'll have the same reaction I do when someone does that to me.

 

[wazzu31]

Why would a double header be a con for the owners? Not a condescending question, just curious why you think that. Decrease in overall revenue for the second game of a double header?

I think when it comes to the ticketing I'm just curious what the business justification is for not lowering ticket prices to get people into the stadium. I would imagine if you did that for single game tickets or even season tickets, that would result in an overall increase in revenue. When you look at it from an economics perspective, your goal is to reach equilibrium between price, supply and demand. I feel like if the Mariners did reduce ticket prices it would help the fans and increase revenue. If the team were to suddenly become a hot ticket item, you just raise prices again. It's just that simple.

Another thing that pops into my head is how everyone who is in their 60s talk about how back in the day it wasn't so expensive to attend a football/basketball/baseball game.

The cons are they would lose a crap load of money from tickets. Either people would stay for two, people wouldn’t pay for two tickets, essentially a ticket sales nightmare. But we kind of discussed it earlier that a person who comes in free is better than that same person who doesn’t come at all.

With the normal ticket pricing, the only thing I can think of is the hand shake deal with the owners not to make each other look bad. The whole not making each other look bad is why Mark Cuban got screwed out of owning the Rangers and why Steinbrenner got suspended.

 

[wazzu31]

Here is a link to the renderings:

Oakland A's release new renderings of their proposed stadium

I don't know where they're at in the process and I'm way too lazy to look it up, but that looks like a really fuckin' cool stadium. I'm also unfamiliar with the politics/process or whatever down there so at this point it could be meaningless. I'd prefer for the team to stay in Oakland as well, but that's just primarily because I hate seeing franchises move. I'd love for Portland to get an MLB team but it would be unfortunate if that was the result of another city losing a team.

Didn’t see your post on this. It does look cool, but after looking into it, it seems weird they’d want to lease it thus taking out any possibility of them not using public funds and creating an infrastructure nightmare. One of the main reasons the new proposed Sonics arena was a golden gift the city turned down was because Hansen owned the land and the infrastructure was already in place to easily handle 20,000 fans coming in and now.

And I just googled the interweb trying to see if they are asking public funds or not and now I am trying to figure out why the A’s are so cheap. Their owner is worth more than the Mariners ownership.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The cons are they would lose a crap load of money from tickets. Either people would stay for two, people wouldn’t pay for two tickets, essentially a ticket sales nightmare. But we kind of discussed it earlier that a person who comes in free is better than that same person who doesn’t come at all.

With the normal ticket pricing, the only thing I can think of is the hand shake deal with the owners not to make each other look bad. The whole not making each other look bad is why Mark Cuban got screwed out of owning the Rangers and why Steinbrenner got suspended.

I've never attended a double header so I didn't know you pay for both tickets. Although now that I think about it, I feel stupid for thinking that because they'd lose money if it was a two for one thing.

It would be really interesting to know what goes on behind the scenes. I'm probably biased on this, but I wouldn't think that lowering ticket prices with a team where demand is low would hurt a team where demand is high. If anything I think it would have the opposite effect because lowering the prices with a non-contending team would increase revenue which boosts revenue sharing.

I keep trying to look at it from the business side and it seems like it would make sense. I've probably said this in about 500 posts but I would really love to know the justification for not making a change. All obvious jokes about Mariners ownership aside, you would think that whoever makes these decisions must have some sort of reason for not advocating it.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Didn’t see your post on this. It does look cool, but after looking into it, it seems weird they’d want to lease it thus taking out any possibility of them not using public funds and creating an infrastructure nightmare. One of the main reasons the new proposed Sonics arena was a golden gift the city turned down was because Hansen owned the land and the infrastructure was already in place to easily handle 20,000 fans coming in and now.

And I just googled the interweb trying to see if they are asking public funds or not and now I am trying to figure out why the A’s are so cheap. Their owner is worth more than the Mariners ownership.

Did they ask for funds from the city/state? I briefly searched and couldn't find anything and wasn't feeling like reading every single article I found to figure out the answer.

I was surprised to see the stadium cost - per Wikipedia - was only $500m. That seems extremely low. The new stadium being built for the Rangers was double the cost. Doesn't seem like you can built a stadium for less than $600m these days.

As an aside I find it kind of bullshit that the NBA wants their own separate arena for a team. Still in shock that private investors are pouring $900m into the Key Arena renovation. They would've been better off trying to buy that property from Hansen and building an arena there at a fraction of the cost. Curious as to your thoughts on this. Seems as if you keep up with this stuff more than I do, I can only handle so many migraines following Seattle politics.

 

[wazzu31]

Did they ask for funds from the city/state? I briefly searched and couldn't find anything and wasn't feeling like reading every single article I found to figure out the answer.

I was surprised to see the stadium cost - per Wikipedia - was only $500m. That seems extremely low. The new stadium being built for the Rangers was double the cost. Doesn't seem like you can built a stadium for less than $600m these days.

As an aside I find it kind of bullshit that the NBA wants their own separate arena for a team. Still in shock that private investors are pouring $900m into the Key Arena renovation. They would've been better off trying to buy that property from Hansen and building an arena there at a fraction of the cost. Curious as to your thoughts on this. Seems as if you keep up with this stuff more than I do, I can only handle so many migraines following Seattle politics.

I couldn’t find anything on the proposal, I kind of went ADD when the article I thought was going to mention said his net worth and just don’t get it.

My thoughts are I hate OVG, I hate the Seattle City Council and is the only time you will ever see me rooting for the hippies or environmentalists to ruin a project. Even with how poor I think of the City Council the Key Arena project was corrupt as hell by a really, really good conman in Tim Leiweke. I am really curious to see which magic tax you folks in Seattle are going to get hit with because OVG was suppose to pay for cost overruns and the last I heard they were already 200 million over the estimated cost and none of the hard work has actually been done. I’m assuming there is some serious kickbacks coming OVG’s way too. But anytime you question OVG somehow the councilwomen turn it into you hate women because sports fans see it as the NHL arena, Tim sees it as a music venue and the council sees it as the Storms venue.

My opinion is the NBA should want and deserves their own arena especially when the new Key Arena or whatever is going to force the NBA to pay boat loads to rent it all the while the City essentially pays the Storm to play at the Seattle Center. I don’t know anything about hockey but from the few things I have read up on it is that hockey and basketball arenas don’t work. The only real places they do work is at MSG and the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, but I can’t remember which way it went but the article said the day they opened it was a bad either NBA or NHL Arena. Similar to Sterns remarks about how much he loved Key Arena until the next night when he went to whatever brand new Bulls Arena was called.