tOfficial B1G basketball thread.

[wingsauce7]

Tim Miles. You cannot seriously argue against him

If I had a vote for COY it would be Miles hands down. The Corn's BB program this year has been fantastic. They really have people talking-not only in the B1G, but nationally and NOBODY wants to go into PBA. I have a hard time voting for a COY on teams that are supposed to finish atop the conference every year.

Nebraska isn't supposed to be doing what their doing this season.

Tim Miles = Coach of the Year

 

[Blaise Winter]

Agreed, Miles/Ryan/Beilein, good-sized gap between 1&2 and a smaller one between 2&3.

 

[wingsauce7]

Tonight's Games

7:00 PM (ET) ESPNU

Penn St........ (5-11)(14-15)
Northwestern (5-11)(12-17)

(0/0)

9:00 PM (ET) ESPN

#24 Iowa.......... (9-7)(20-9)
#22 Michigan St (11-5)(22-7)

Michigan St (-5)

I'd blow my wad if Iowa could somehow win this game tonight and give Sparty some payback. Depends on which Hawk team shows up. Gonna go homer and pick Iowa by 4.

 

[Smart]

Tim Miles. You cannot seriously argue against him

In terms of in-season coaching, absolutely. In terms of everything, particularly offseason player development, I think Bo deserves it. If Miles beats Bo head to head this weekend to likely get Nebraska in the dance, he has to win the award.

Returning minutes are obviously skewed because Gasser didn't play at all last year. Kaminsky is really the only player who didn't get major minutes last year. Michigan lost basically 3 first rounders from last year's team since McGary isn't playing. Either way I'd give it to Miles.

You can say this, but Wisconsin lost its entire starting frontcourt. That's three starters gone. All Gasser coming back did was that it added to a crowded backcourt. Developing Kaminsky and working with Nigel Hayes has been huge for this team. Dekker is essentially playing a new position this year (going from Shooting Guard/Small Forward combo to Small Forward/Power Forward combo).

Bo's done an incredible coaching job this year. It's easily his best year since he was first starting off. He deserves it a hell of a lot more than he did last year. If people want to favor Beilein, it should oly be because they don't wanna see Bo win it twice in a row.

McGary wasn't even 75%. His back injury came over the summer and yes, he was a preseason All American.

I think what most people are saying is that Michigan lost two 1st round draft picks and their 2013-14 big man, yet still won the B1G outright (first since '86). Beilein's a helluva coach and develops talent as good as anyone in the country.

Miles and Ryan both have a legit case and it will be close.

I normally agree with most of your views, but I couldn't disagree more here. Beilein does one thing better than everyone else: he is excellent at picking out underrated recruits. Nobody in America does it better. He is NOT, nor has he ever been, a great player developer.

His top players at Michigan, have tended to all be solid as Freshmen and not improve much. Guys like Burke, Stauskas, Hardaway, and Robinson were beasts from Day One. His teams that have relied on experience have faltered.

And the fact that some idiotic commentators proclaimed a backup to be an All-American shouldn't lead us to pretend that his loss is like the loss of an actual All-American. Beilein actually probably deserved it last year, but I just don't see it this year.

 

[iruletheskool]

Dont ya dream, RA?

 

[wingsauce7]

Last year Michigan had the #6 rated recruiting class according to Rivals and in 2012 they were #7. That's talent and definitely not underrated recruits.

 

[Smart]

Last year Michigan had the #6 rated recruiting class according to Rivals and in 2012 they were #7. That's talent and definitely not underrated recruits.

Yeah, but a lot of that was on bulk. Hardaway was #93. Burke was #84. Stauskas was #76. All three of them were stars from day one, and you basically never see that from recruits outside the top 25. For three straight years, he landed the top player outside of the top 50. That's pretty ridiculous.

 

[wiskyisgood12]

I would love for Bo Ryan to get Coach of the Year, but it isn't happening. I would vote Miles, Beilein and then Bo. Bo Ryan has done a great coaching job this year, but Tim Miles took a team that no one thought anything of, and has them potentially on the verge of an NCAA Tournament appearance.

I don't know what to make of Sundays' game. Purdue got something like 30 points in the paint on us last night. Purdue deserves credit because they pushed the ball up the floor to avoid playing against a set defense, but UW seems to have this ability to allow opponents to get wherever they want with the ball.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

Well at this point, I see 5 maybe 6 Big 10 teams with bids.. Kind of disappointing, but it wasn't like the OOC was the main culprit..

 

[wiskyisgood12]

Well at this point, I see 5 maybe 6 Big 10 teams with bids.. Kind of disappointing, but it wasn't like the OOC was the main culprit..

There's really only a few teams that didn't live up to expectations: I think most thought Ohio State would be a bit better, but they're in. I don't think anyone thought Indiana would struggle like they have. Michigan State has been dealing with injury issues, they're still a very good basketball team. Iowa has some defensive issues, I think they're in, but they're an up and down team.

Nebraska exceeded expectations. Northwestern surprised some people, but anyone who thought they could make the tourney was a bit ahead of themselves. Minnesota has been a bit better than I expected, maybe not safely in, but I think little Pitino has done a nice job.

I don't think it's that disappointing. 7 would have been the high end, but 5-6 teams in seems right to me.

 

[wingsauce7]

Yeah, but a lot of that was on bulk. Hardaway was #93. Burke was #84. Stauskas was #76. All three of them were stars from day one, and you basically never see that from recruits outside the top 25. For three straight years, he landed the top player outside of the top 50. That's pretty ridiculous.

Give me a break man.

2013
Irvin 5-star
Donnal 4-star
Walton 4-star

2012
Robinson III 5-star
McGary 4.5-star
Stauskas 4-star

Teams like Nebraska or Iowa are lucky to land a 4-star recruit once in 4 years. These basketball factories like Mich, osu and MSU underachieve unless they make it to at least the elite 8 any given year. Illinois routinely land top recruits and suck ass most years.

 

[MI Nightmare]

I normally agree with most of your views, but I couldn't disagree more here. Beilein does one thing better than everyone else: he is excellent at picking out underrated recruits. Nobody in America does it better. He is NOT, nor has he ever been, a great player developer.

His top players at Michigan, have tended to all be solid as Freshmen and not improve much. Guys like Burke, Stauskas, Hardaway, and Robinson were beasts from Day One. His teams that have relied on experience have faltered.

And the fact that some idiotic commentators proclaimed a backup to be an All-American shouldn't lead us to pretend that his loss is like the loss of an actual All-American. Beilein actually probably deserved it last year, but I just don't see it this year.

One could make that argument for every player in the country that exceeded expectations, "they were simply underrated coming out of high school." That's really selling good coaching short. If your definition of player development is progression and accomplishments then Beilein has gotten just that out of his kids.

You're WAY off with Michigan player assessment. Beilein's players improve from year to year. Burke and Hardaway's draft stock went from borderline draft picks to 1st rounders. Burke and Hardaway were not "beasts" from day 1. Solid, with potential, but not beasts. Nobody thought Burke would win National POY in his second season under Beilein. Stauskas went from a pure catch and shoot 3 pt machine to a well rounded, B1G POY, baller. GRIII is the only player to have stagnated in his second season. This is more mental than anything because his athleticism and FG% have only increased since last season.

Let's not forget all those great 1-2 star "underrated" players Beilein coached up when he came to A2 (and continues to coach up/develop) that got Michigan back into the NCAAs after a 10 year drought, such as: the mighty Zak Novak, Stu Douglass, Jordan Morgan, Spike Albrecht, Caris LeVert, etc....etc.....etc....

Obviously McGary is not a fan favorite of opposing teams but go back and watch a fully healthy (and starting) MM play in Michigan's NCAA Tourney run last year. Then you'll see why the experts and analysts like him so much. Losing McGary was huge yet Beilein went to plan B andstill made it work.

 

[MI Nightmare]

^ GRIII PPG, FT%, APG have all increased. FG% has dipped. But again, his deal is mental and his role is not extremely defined. He's a definite 3-4 tweener and probably needs to put on 20 pounds while remaining that athletic.

 

[MI Nightmare]

Give me a break man.

2013
Irvin 5-star
Donnal 4-star
Walton 4-star

2012
Robinson III 5-star
McGary 4.5-star
Stauskas 4-star

Teams like Nebraska or Iowa are lucky to land a 4-star recruit once in 4 years. These basketball factories like Mich, osu and MSU underachieve unless they make it to at least the elite 8 any given year. Illinois routinely land top recruits and suck ass most years.

Guys, this is all recent. This was not the case when Beilein took over and got Michigan back to the NCAAs, in only his second year, after a 10 year drought when Amaker (good coach, bad situation after the scandal/sanctions) had them sniffing NITs.

 

[Smart]

Give me a break man.

2013
Irvin 5-star
Donnal 4-star
Walton 4-star

2012
Robinson III 5-star
McGary 4.5-star
Stauskas 4-star

Teams like Nebraska or Iowa are lucky to land a 4-star recruit once in 4 years. These basketball factories like Mich, osu and MSU underachieve unless they make it to at least the elite 8 any given year. Illinois routinely land top recruits and suck ass most years.

Eh...Woodbury, Gesell, and Uthoff were all ranked on par or above Stauskas, Burke, and Hardaway. Again, it's not normal to have kids ranked outside the top 50 start from day one. To have them be All-American candidates from Day One is unprecedented. It's maybe happened six times in the last decade, and half of them were Wolverines.

And, MINightmare, your examples prove my point. Outside of LeVert, none of those guys have progressed. Indeed, in his seven years as Head Coach, Caris LeVert is the first player under Beilein to go from garbage time player to star. Compare that to Bo Ryan's team, where Ben Brust, Frank Kaminsky, and Traevon Jackson (three of the top five players this year) were all garbage time players. And this happens every year. Last year, all five starters were garbage-time players at one point. Even All-Americans like Jordan Taylor and Jon Leuer were garbage-time players when they arrived in Madison. If you think that Jordan Morgan somehow proves that Beilein is a great player developer, I think you are missing what a great player developer does.

 

[MI Nightmare]

Eh...Woodbury, Gesell, and Uthoff were all ranked on par or above Stauskas, Burke, and Hardaway. Again, it's not normal to have kids ranked outside the top 50 start from day one. To have them be All-American candidates from Day One is unprecedented. It's maybe happened six times in the last decade, and half of them were Wolverines.

And, MINightmare, your examples prove my point. Outside of LeVert, none of those guys have progressed. Indeed, in his seven years as Head Coach, Caris LeVert is the first player under Beilein to go from garbage time player to star. Compare that to Bo Ryan's team, where Ben Brust, Frank Kaminsky, and Traevon Jackson (three of the top five players this year) were all garbage time players. And this happens every year. Last year, all five starters were garbage-time players at one point. Even All-Americans like Jordan Taylor and Jon Leuer were garbage-time players when they arrived in Madison. If you think that Jordan Morgan somehow proves that Beilein is a great player developer, I think you are missing what a great player developer does.

You're forgetting Beilein got Michigan back to the NCAAs with a whole lot of nothing....and still continues developing talent. You put too much stock in "the player was underrated."


I think you may be confusing underclassmen with garbage time players in many cases.

 

[Smart]

The point is that Beilein can't be considered a great player developer when every star on his teams has been a major contributor (if not a star) from day one. Outside of Caris Levert, no one under Beilein has gone from <20 MPG to being a star. Let's look at average minutes played as Freshmen for starters under Bo versus under Beilein the last two years.

2014: Beilein=25.0, Bo=13.3
2013: Beilein=30.1, Bo=6.6

I could go on (the pattern will continue), but I think the point is clear. Michigan is a program that relies on guys coming in and playing well immediately. Wisconsin is a program which develops players. I'm not making an editorial statement on which style is better. All that I am saying is that Bo is a better and more proven player developer, just like Beilein is a more proven recruit analyzer.

 

[Red_Alert]

Dont ya dream, RA?

I got some hope, but I'm a realist.

There's a lot of bball left to play, irule. Nebraska is not a solid IN they are as barely in as you can get right now. There are only so many spots available and there could still be some auto-bid surprises. Teams that Nebraska's been needing to lose to get some space have been winning big games against ranked teams keeping themselves in the mix. There is still a weekend left to play and then conference tournaments. There are just a lot of teams that can make as good of a case as Nebraska.

 

[pumpkinhead33793]

I agree with Smart on this one. Both coaches are great at what they do, but they both have different strategies for building the best possible team.

 

[wingsauce7]

Eh...Woodbury, Gesell, and Uthoff were all ranked on par or above Stauskas, Burke, and Hardaway. Again, it's not normal to have kids ranked outside the top 50 start from day one. To have them be All-American candidates from Day One is unprecedented. It's maybe happened six times in the last decade, and half of them were Wolverines.

Woody was #50 and Gesell was #100. I'm not saying we never get blue chippers, just saying it doesn't happen too often for Iowa. You'd have to go back to the Steve Alford days to find the last 4 star we signed. I'm not trying to have a pissing match, all I'm saying is that you simply can't compare Iowa's recruiting potential with teams called osu, Mich or MSU