tOfficial 2015 NBA Draft/Free Agency Thread

[WiggyRuss]

Brian Windhorst tells SportsCenter that the Cavs are calling the shot precautionary, but adds that there's some extra incentive: "The Cavs are a mess right now with injuries ... and so LeBron is looking around and realizing he's going to have to ... carry the load again."

like last year when he had a the biggest minutes reduction and most DNP's of his career?

 

[trojanfan12]

no - i said that Gilbert is NOT going to give Thompson a max- and he shouldnt give him a max. show me otherwise. At this point to save face- Thompsons Agent Rich Paul cant just get 80- but there is no way gilbert gives him the max- and he shouldnt. If you see where I have said otherwise I am willing to extend you a big ole sloppy mea culpa

Im continuing searching for more posts then just the one i posted. there should be a few more i would think

No, you said Gilbert would pay him. Sorry, no getting out of it. Everyone saw it and has called you out over it.

 

[WiggyRuss]

August 15th

yah...you pretty much summed it up. He is definitely not worth 18M a year- I think his "market value" SHOULD be somewhere between 14 and 16 considering what other comparable big men are signing for- but the Cavs- besides pissing him off and making him play for the qualifying offer- really dont have much wiggle room on this one.

I keep wondering what hte final outcome will be- and keep coming back to the fact that 20+ teams will have a ton of cap room next summer- and the free agent class gets thin very quickly after Durant, Horford, Conley, Dwight Howard (and maybe Dwade and Kobe) at the top. Not only that but teams HAVE to meet a minimum cap floor.

I have a feeling that the next tier of guys- guys like Whiteside, Thompson, Noah, Joe Johnson, Nick Batum, Al Jefferson, Ryan Anderson, Danilo Gallinari, etc- are going to get a LOT LOT of money....

 

[WiggyRuss]

No, you said Gilbert would pay him. Sorry, no getting out of it. Everyone saw it and has called you out over it.

I said Gilbert would pay him the max? THat simply does not exist in any world out there.

 

[bksballer89]

like last year when he had a the biggest minutes reduction and most DNP's of his career?

Pretty sure he's talking about the playoffs when Lebron did indeed have to carry the Cleveland Lebrons

 

[WiggyRuss]

Post from July 9th



I suspect Thompson is going to get between 12 and 16- as I said a few days ago- because the Cavs cant replace him, he had a great Finals, and he shares an agent with LEBron

18-19 will never ever happen.

I would suspect it comes in as i said- between 12 and 16- with it PROBABLY being about 15.....we shall see though...

I know what DIDNT happen like TURNUP said

LeBron didnt wait to sign to make sure Thompson got 18 million a year. He looked stupid- so now he is back tracking.

All though- ya never know- Turnup might be right- he is DEFINITELY a more credible source than USA Today and Espn, LOL......just unreal. What a paranoid nutjob.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Pretty sure he's talking about the playoffs when Lebron did indeed have to carry the Cleveland Lebrons

the injuries in October are going to cause LeBron to carry the team in the playoffs in May and June?

 

[WiggyRuss]

October 6th---- MULTIPLE MULTIPLE POSTS where I say Gilbert will pay Thompson but I have not and would not say he will pay him the max because taht is, always has been, and always will be stupid.


Well - LeBron obviously spoke of it as a potential distraction, while keeping in mind that it is EARLY October. LeBron without a doubt wants the guy who was his most reliable side-kick in last year's playoffs back. LeBron realizes Thompson is still very young, still improving and is a significant part of the teams big picture going forward. LeBron was careful to explain that his quote was meant for not just the Cavs- but also for TT.

The public sentiment and the media sentiment in Cleveland is against Thompson as everyone out there thinks that 16 million is not only EXTREMELY fair- but represents a premium for Thompson. LeBron is of course going to support his teammate- especially one that shares an agent- but LeBron does not expect the Cavs to pay Thompson max money- and i dont think he WANTS the Cavs to pay Thompson max money. LeBron of course does not care about Gilberts cash- but he does care about the salary cap ramifications of paying a non-max player max money and how that can hurt the teams ability to add players going forward. If you listen to Cleveland radio or read local newspapers etc. it seems that most people believe LeBron just wants it to get done so they can stop asking questions about it.

At this point though- COULD Rich Paul and Thompson even accept the 5 year 80M offer? wouldnt that be a major loss to them? --- This makes me believe that LeBron expects the Cavs to come up off of 80M - but more as a publicity move as opposed to he thinks Thompson deserves the max. I do not in anyway shape or form believe that LeBron thinks Thompson should get a 5 year 94 million dollar deal- but LeBron wants it done- and if he thinks getting involved will do that- then more power to him.

 

[bksballer89]

the injuries in October are going to cause LeBron to carry the team in the playoffs in May and June?

No you clearly did not read my post correctly.

You're original response was stating that LBJ did not have to carry the team last year. I responded that I'm pretty sure Windhorst was talking about the playoffs when he was forced to carry the Cavs last year.

 

[trojanfan12]

I said Gilbert would pay him the max? THat simply does not exist in any world out there.

If memory serves, $94 million over 5 years isn't a max deal. It's close, but not quite a max. You said that Gilbert wouldn't let the extra $14 million stop him.

You even went on one of your rants about how much money Gilbert has, how a title was more important to him, how much the cap was going to increase and how Arison was a cheapskate and that's why Lebron left.

 

[WiggyRuss]

August 11th---- EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING - I mean this is too easy- I have found at least half a dozen examples of quotes that DIRECTLY support me in NO TIME>

THIS POST IS WHAT THEY CALL THE "SMOKING GUN" lol


because it hurts their potential flexiblity going forward paying 2 PF's max money when one of them is only "worth" max money because of his recent playoff performance/room for growth/rising salary cap/inability to replace.

Its tough like I said because with the salary cap floor- and all those teams having money- its highly likely someone gives him a deal for more money then he is "worth".

What would you do if you are the Cavs? Would you just pay him the max? Or would you try and get him for like 15M a year and play hardball hoping no one else is willing to give him more next year?

I really dont know- its a tough question. If they thought Thompson was a true max player they dont hesitate to get it done- but I think they feel if they give Thompson a 5 year 94 million dollar deal they could look back in year 3 of that and really regret it if Thompson levels off and does not continue to improve.

With Love and Kyrie signed to relatively modest deals compared to what will be coming down the pipe- at some point - once hte cap gets in the low 100's- theyd have flexibility if they pass on Thompson.

 

[WiggyRuss]

If memory serves, $94 million over 5 years isn't a max deal. It's close, but not quite a max. You said that Gilbert wouldn't let the extra $14 million stop him.

You even went on one of your rants about how much money Gilbert has, how a title was more important to him and how Arison was a cheapskate and that's why Lebron left.

Report: Tristan Thompson To Turn Down $80M, Demand Max-Level Contract

nope...nice try.... a Max deal is 5 years 94 just like i said

ESPN’s Brian Windhorst reported Thompson was seeking a max-level deal worth $94 million

Read more at: Report: Tristan Thompson To Turn Down $80M, Demand Max-Level Contract

 

[WiggyRuss]

actually this post from August 14th is the best. This post is probably the best evidence. Why ON GODS GREEN EARTH would the Cavs offer thompson a max of 5 years 94 million WHEN THE BEST THEIR COMPETITION can do is 4 yeras 70 million.

There is NO WAY ON GODS GREEN EARTH I WOULD, EVER HAVE, or EVER WOULD say- that Gilbert should OR would give Thompson the max deal of 5 years 94.





Here is the thing that is holding stuff up.

The best Thompson could do this year in restricted free agency if another team signed him is a 4 year deal worth 70 million. Thats the BEST he could do under the rules.

The Cavs have no interest in going over THE BEST THOMPSON could do with another team under the rules.

Thompson - even if he was offered a max by one of the two teams with "max" money left- would not take it. He wants more than the MAX he could get from another team - 4 years 70 million. The Cavs would likely be HAPPY if he signed an offer sheet- and they only had to commit 4 years to him- instead of the 5 thy are eligible for with his Bird Rights.

To me- that is the hold up.

the most he can get from other teams is 4 years 70 by operation of the collective bargaining. The Cavs are not going to go over the BEST he could do with another team- especially when his best fit - both for the Cavs AND FOR HIM- is here.

That is why there has been little movement thus far- that and because there is no reason for a hard and fast deadline until the season starts.

The part that is messing things up is that next year- the max will be 4 years about 82 million (25% of the cap) that he could get from another team.

 

[WiggyRuss]

If memory serves, $94 million over 5 years isn't a max deal. It's close, but not quite a max. You said that Gilbert wouldn't let the extra $14 million stop him.

You even went on one of your rants about how much money Gilbert has, how a title was more important to him, how much the cap was going to increase and how Arison was a cheapskate and that's why Lebron left.

I certainly dont think ARison being cheap was the only reason LeBron left--- upgrading both in talent and longevity from Bosh and Wade to Irving and likely Love also played a role. Going to Cleveland to right a wrong obviously played a role-

but no doubt- i dont think anyone can dispute that LeBron was irritated with what LeBron perceived as lack of the same commitment from ownership that LeBron himself was giving. - which is like i said in post 8173---- all that evidence those reporters cited----- that Arison was not so much cheap- as LeBron did not feel like Arison was spending enough to match LeBrons own commitment to the team---- so when he had a chance to jump ship and go to an owner who would go above and beyond what Mr. Arison would do- I am sure he factored that into his decision.

I wouldnt tell Arison to give Whiteside a max in next years market (which will be 25% of the cap {since he does not have the service time to get 30% of the cap})- its 70 this year- and supposedly next year its 100?- so would i blame Arison and call him cheap if he offered Whiteside 4 years 80 million and Whiteside insisted on 5 years 125 million? No way....I get that..you have to pay a premium to keep guys in free agency- but you dont overpay guys and strangle your cap just because they try and exercise their leverage .

 

[Heatles84]

Brian Windhorst tells SportsCenter that the Cavs are calling the shot precautionary, but adds that there's some extra incentive: "The Cavs are a mess right now with injuries ... and so LeBron is looking around and realizing he's going to have to ... carry the load again."

That's impossible. Wiggy said Kyrie's not injury prone and that this Cavs team is the deepest ever in NBA history. Why would Lebron need to carry such a heavy load for his team?

 

[Heatles84]

I certainly dont think ARison being cheap was the only reason LeBron left--- upgrading both in talent and longevity from Bosh and Wade to Irving and likely Love also played a role. Going to Cleveland to right a wrong obviously played a role-

but no doubt- i dont think anyone can dispute that LeBron was irritated with what LeBron perceived as lack of the same commitment from ownership that LeBron himself was giving. - which is like i said in post 8173---- all that evidence those reporters cited----- that Arison was not so much cheap- as LeBron did not feel like Arison was spending enough to match LeBrons own commitment to the team---- so when he had a chance to jump ship and go to an owner who would go above and beyond what Mr. Arison would do- I am sure he factored that into his decision.

I wouldnt tell Arison to give Whiteside a max in next years market (which will be 25% of the cap {since he does not have the service time to get 30% of the cap})- its 70 this year- and supposedly next year its 100?- so would i blame Arison and call him cheap if he offered Whiteside 4 years 80 million and Whiteside insisted on 5 years 125 million? No way....I get that..you have to pay a premium to keep guys in free agency- but you dont overpay guys and strangle your cap just because they try and exercise their leverage .

Longevity is a huge question there. Irving's injury history is nuts. Wade's injury history is simply because of the amount of minutes he's logged in a long career. I don't know how you can say the duo of Love and Irving are more talented than Wade and Bosh. Yes, you can say they have more of their careers left, but talent, no. Wade's likely going to go down as the 3rd best SG of all-time. Kyrie probably won't even hit the top 10 list.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I love on here how the Moderator calls me out for saying something that I claim I never said- I search through the whole database- find at LEAST half a dozen posts to back up what I said- he offers ZERO evidence to back his post up- and then NOTHING.

If I would have found SOMETHING MYSELF to support what you said Trojan I would be the FIRST one to give a mea culpa and say you were right. You seemed so freaking sure of it I was halfway worried except for the fact that my honest to God feeling from the very beginning till now has never changed- that I dont think Thompson is worth a max and I dont think Gilbert would or should give it to him.

But I find a ton of evidence to back up my story after being falsely accused of something by the Moderator and then nothing....no- my bad- i must have mis understood something....just more brow-beating and rhetoric

 

[Heatles84]

I love on here how the Moderator calls me out for saying something that I claim I never said- I search through the whole database- find at LEAST half a dozen posts to back up what I said- he offers ZERO evidence to back his post up- and then NOTHING.

If I would have found SOMETHING MYSELF to support what you said Trojan I would be the FIRST one to give a mea culpa and say you were right. You seemed so freaking sure of it I was halfway worried except for the fact that my honest to God feeling from the very beginning till now has never changed- that I dont think Thompson is worth a max and I dont think Gilbert would or should give it to him.

But I find a ton of evidence to back up my story after being falsely accused of something by the Moderator and then nothing....no- my bad- i must have mis understood something....just more brow-beating and rhetoric

You were selective in your posts. You were singing a completely different tune earlier in the summer. We all know you're full of shit. I'm just trying to figure out why you post here when it's clear that not one person on this forum likes or respects you or your opinion.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Longevity is a huge question there. Irving's injury history is nuts. Wade's injury history is simply because of the amount of minutes he's logged in a long career. I don't know how you can say the duo of Love and Irving are more talented than Wade and Bosh. Yes, you can say they have more of their careers left, but talent, no. Wade's likely going to go down as the 3rd best SG of all-time. Kyrie probably won't even hit the top 10 list.

Wades injury history is not simply because of minutes- a large part of it is because he had his miniscus removed from his knee when he was younger and has pretty much no cartilage left because the asshole coaches wanted to get him on the court quicker rather then doing the procedure the right way- the way RW did it- and taking more time off- --I feel bad for Wade for that. As a player your always going to want to be out there and get out there as fast as yo ucan for your teammates but your coaches are supposed to stop you- in this case the coaches acted like self interested assholes.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You were selective in your posts. You were singing a completely different tune earlier in the summer. We all know you're full of shit. I'm just trying to figure out why you post here when it's clear that not one person on this forum likes or respects you or your opinion.

dude, show me one post then- I went through all of the ones I thought were relevant--- Please- I looked- find a post where I said that Gilbert should or would give Thompson the max- IT SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST- HAS NEVER EXISTED- and WILL NEVER EXIST-

Im not going to lie and say a post does not exist if i found it- its WAY TOO EASY TO FIND....like i said- Trojan was so sure for a second I almost doubted myself except for the fact that it just makes absolutely zero sense.