tOfficial 2015 NBA Draft/Free Agency Thread

[gordontrue]

No, no, no. Hold up. I only answered that based on the LARGER sample size you wanted to use. And furthermore, already said I don't think it's right or wrong. Never once did I say MJ would've had the better record if the sample size includes every single playoff game played. YOU were the one who wanted to include the "road" to the Finals so it muddied up the waters. Which by the way, comes across as you favoring LBJ just a tiny bit and something I would expect from a Cavs fan.

This is exactly what kills useful conversation in these threads. Who cares who an argument favors and whether its coming from a fan of that player or not... just take the statement on its merits and respond accordingly.

 

[LAD]

But LAD said you need to consider beating everyone, every year, not just Finals.
It's about finding ways to beat teams you prob shouldn't.
9 times Jordan's teams didn't accomplish that.

Please see comment #6658.

 

[trojanfan12]

But LAD said you need to consider beating everyone, every year, not just Finals.
It's about finding ways to beat teams you prob shouldn't.
9 times Jordan's teams didn't accomplish that.

The goal is to beat everyone every year and win in the finals. No one has ever done that ad never will. That's why playoffs losses and not making it in a couple of seasons isn't really counted against these guys. It comes down to how they performed in multiple finals.

Look, I'm a Lakers fan, there are 3 Lakers with the resume' to challenge MJ as GOAT. I can make very good arguments for why any one of them should be considered GOAT over MJ (especially Kareem and Magic). However, the one argument I can't top is MJ is 6-0. It doesn't matter that all 3 made it more times than MJ.

I'd love to be able to replace MJ with any of those 3. Just isn't how it's done.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

No, no, no. Hold up. I only answered that based on the LARGER sample size you wanted to use. And furthermore, already said I don't think it's right or wrong. Never once did I say MJ would've had the better record if the sample size includes every single playoff game played. YOU were the one who wanted to include the "road" to the Finals so it muddied up the waters. Which by the way, comes across as you favoring LBJ just a tiny bit and something I would expect from a Cavs fan.

I've never just isolated a debate to Finals record, because then there is no debate.
Numbers speak for themselves.

I understand that the Finals is the biggest stage, and the most remembered, but I just can't hold any Finals loss against James other than Dallas because he clearly wasn't on the better team when the games were actually being played.

 

[LAD]

Find/name one person here who EVER said James was better or equal to Jordan.

There are plenty of LBJ fans who will say they think he's better than MJ. Hell even Scottie Pippen said it a time or two, on the internet to boot. Just because none of us currently here on this site have said it or believe doesn't mean it hasn't been said.

 

[trojanfan12]

Find/name one person here who EVER said James was better or equal to Jordan.

Heatmyshorts

What do I win?

 

[gordontrue]

The goal is to beat everyone every year and win in the finals. No one has ever done that ad never will. That's why playoffs losses and not making it in a couple of seasons isn't really counted against these guys. It comes down to how they performed in multiple finals.

Look, I'm a Lakers fan, there are 3 Lakers with the resume' to challenge MJ as GOAT. I can make very good arguments for why any one of them should be considered GOAT over MJ (especially Kareem and Magic). However, the one argument I can't top is MJ is 6-0. It doesn't matter that all 3 made it more times than MJ.

I'd love to be able to replace MJ with any of those 3. Just isn't how it's done.

That is not the argument for MJ over Magic/Kareem.

 

[LAD]

This is exactly what kills useful conversation in these threads. Who cares who an argument favors and whether its coming from a fan of that player or not... just take the statement on its merits and respond accordingly.

Well, in all fairness I put that in there because about a page or maybe two back he gave full disclosure about not being an LBJ fan and that he hates "defending" him.

 

[trojanfan12]

I was done discussing it with you. I resumed the discussion with TurnUp and LAD and you came back in. Only this time you seemed willing to talk about the logic of it , giving me false hope of a useful conversation.

That's not what you said. You said you were done with this topic.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

The goal is to beat everyone every year and win in the finals. No one has ever done that ad never will. That's why playoffs losses and not making it in a couple of seasons isn't really counted against these guys. It comes down to how they performed in multiple finals.

Look, I'm a Lakers fan, there are 3 Lakers with the resume' to challenge MJ as GOAT. I can make very good arguments for why any one of them should be considered GOAT over MJ (especially Kareem and Magic). However, the one argument I can't top is MJ is 6-0. It doesn't matter that all 3 made it more times than MJ.

I'd love to be able to replace MJ with any of those 3. Just isn't how it's done.

I get all that, and I don't remember every Finals match up.

My question then, would be, were the Lakers viewed as the better team in some of the series they lost?

If so, I would hold that against them.
If not, I wouldn't.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

That's not what you said. You said you were done with this topic.

Dog days of summer around here.
Why can't something NBA related happen?

 

[gordontrue]

That's not what you said. You said you were done with this topic.

I apologize for not being more clear.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Not 1, not 2, not 3 Finals losses.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Heatmyshorts

What do I win?

Maybe James will give you one of his runner up trophies?

 

[LAD]

I get all that, and I don't remember every Finals match up.

My question then, would be, were the Lakers viewed as the better team in some of the series they lost?

If so, I would hold that against them.
If not, I wouldn't.

So what is the debate? Is it about how many playoff series are won (as you previously pointed out) or how many times a team was favored to win and lost (also something you've pointed out). I feel like sometimes you throw other tidbits in a debate to shake things up and possibly throw one off the coarse of the debate.

 

[trojanfan12]

Can you please provide me a quote. I never said anything remotely close to that.

Why yes, I can.

I'm just calling out the BS of pretending that losing in the Finals is worse than missing the playoffs, losing in the 1st round, losing in the conf semis, or losing in the conf Finals.

Who the hell said losing in the finals is worse than missing the playoffs?

The message is implicit in any comparison/discussion of Finals winning percentage. If you're going to deny the obviously implied narrative... then I'd wonder what your possible explanation for even discussing such an arbitrary stat would be.

Anymore questions?

 

[trojanfan12]

Maybe James will give you one of his runner up trophies?

 

[gordontrue]

Why yes, I can.

Anymore questions?

Perfect. Not a single mention of LeBron anywhere. Like I said.

 

[LAD]

I've never just isolated a debate to Finals record, because then there is no debate.
Numbers speak for themselves.

I understand that the Finals is the biggest stage, and the most remembered, but I just can't hold any Finals loss against James other than Dallas because he clearly wasn't on the better team when the games were actually being played.

Ok i get that. However, can't others debate only on Finals records if they'd like?

Also, how are the losses "held against" him? Is it because no credit is given for them? Which is the case with all the other players. You kinda make it sound like he's the only player, for the purpose of debating, that doesn't get credit for his losses. That is the case for ALL players, even MJ as you kindly pointed out his losses in earlier seasons/rounds of the post season. It sounds a little like if he is expected to lose, and does, that shouldn't be held against his record. That isn't using not logic IMO.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

So what is the debate? Is it about how many playoff series are won (as you previously pointed out) or how many times a team was favored to win and lost (also something you've pointed out). I feel like sometimes you throw other tidbits in a debate to shake things up and possibly throw one off the coarse of the debate.

I guess I'm not sure what it is, but I'm pretty clear where everyone stands on the multiple topic(s).