Thoughts after the Lions/Falcons game.......

[Kreton]

Caldwell isn't very good at clock management. I noticed this in preseason, can't remember off hand which game, though.

But that timeout with 2:10 left stumped me. Logic says let the 10 seconds go so you can save 40 seconds with that timeout after the warning. Now, it ended up not affecting us, thanks to Atlanta's holding and incomplete pass.

I was ok with that because had we gotten the stop on that 3rd down the 2 minute warning would have given us the ball with them punting at 2:00.

Without the time out it would have been the 2 minute warning. Then the stop and the timeout which would have had them punting probably around 1:55 or so.

Either way it came down to that stop. When that stop didnt happen the game should have been over either way. But ATL didnt manage that right.

 

[jdwills126]

You don't go for it there, that would be something Schwartz would have done. They needed 11, so at some point they needed a FG anyways, you kick it on fourth down. Especially when the offense looked lost the play before. They would have lost game if they went for it there. Good job Caldwell

I gotta disagree with you on this one. It's easier to get a FG and the fact you are so close you may not get another shot at it. Plus if you miss Atlanta has a 98 yard field.

 

[broncosmitty]

Caldwell isn't very good at clock management. I noticed this in preseason, can't remember off hand which game, though.

But that timeout with 2:10 left stumped me. Logic says let the 10 seconds go so you can save 40 seconds with that timeout after the warning. Now, it ended up not affecting us, thanks to Atlanta's holding and incomplete pass.

Nope, he sure isn't.

His special teams also can't get on the field in the proper amount of time. Which somehow was a good thing, since they also can't snap, hold and kick with any regularity.

I still can't believe ATL passed on third down when we were out of timeouts. Or why they even handed off. Kneel Three times and punt.... prolly a different outcome. There were numerous weird things that worked together in Detroits favor yesterday.

I think we're even in the luck column now. Kicking screwed us out of a W earlier, dumbluck got us one yesterday.

 

[Rob]

Caldwell isn't very good at clock management. I noticed this in preseason, can't remember off hand which game, though.

But that timeout with 2:10 left stumped me. Logic says let the 10 seconds go so you can save 40 seconds with that timeout after the warning. Now, it ended up not affecting us, thanks to Atlanta's holding and incomplete pass.

Lets assume the plays happen in the same exact way.

As it happened:
Detroit stopped the clock at 2:10 with their 2nd timeout.
Atlanta got a first down going into the two minute warning.
Atlanta ran the ball and Detroit stopped the clock at 1:55 with their 2nd timeout.
Two clock stopping plays later (penalty and incomplete pass) was a 4th down at 1:46.

Now if they let the clock run down and "saved" the timeout:
Two minute warning on 2nd down.
Atlanta gets a first down and detroit stops the clock with 1:55 (assuming a 5 second play)
On first down they run for one yard and Detroit stops the clock with 1:50.
Two clock stopping plays later (penalty and incomplete pass) would have been a 4th down at 1:41.

Saving the final two timeouts until after the 2 minute warning would have cost Detroit about 5 seconds.

Caldwell used his final two timeouts wisely.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

A bad rule worked in Lion's favor

10 second run off should have been in play there, but it wasn't...kicker got a 2nd shot at it and was money.

Falcons are just a bad football team...I must say I didn't see this kind of season coming...if it were me coaching ATL, #36 was be a FA today.

 

[jdwills126]

10 second run off should have been in play there, but it wasn't...kicker got a 2nd shot at it and was money.

Falcons are just a bad football team...I must say I didn't see this kind of season coming...if it were me coaching ATL, #36 was be a FA today.

Dead ball penalties do not cause a 10 second runoff. So the delay of game was called correctly and Atlanta has to question why the hell they were passing on third down. Plus the holding call just killed them.

 

[broncosmitty]

Lets assume the plays happen in the same exact way.

As it happened:
Detroit stopped the clock at 2:10 with their 2nd timeout.
Atlanta got a first down going into the two minute warning.
Atlanta ran the ball and Detroit stopped the clock at 1:55 with their 2nd timeout.
Two clock stopping plays later (penalty and incomplete pass) was a 4th down at 1:46.

Now if they let the clock run down and "saved" the timeout:
Two minute warning on 2nd down.
Atlanta gets a first down and detroit stops the clock with 1:55 (assuming a 5 second play)
On first down they run for one yard and Detroit stops the clock with 1:50.
Two clock stopping plays later (penalty and incomplete pass) would have been a 4th down at 1:41.

Saving the final two timeouts until after the 2 minute warning would have cost Detroit about 5 seconds.

Caldwell used his final two timeouts wisely.

Huh?

He saved 10seconds with a TO. ATL saved 1:10 for him, being shitty. Caldwell was lucky, not wise.

 

[Rob]

10 second run off should have been in play there, but it wasn't...kicker got a 2nd shot at it and was money.

Falcons are just a bad football team...I must say I didn't see this kind of season coming...if it were me coaching ATL, #36 was be a FA today.

You don't understand the reason for the 10 second runoff.

No it should not have been a 10 second run off. That rule only applies to a running clock and is charged to prevent an offense from killing the clock without losing a down with something like a false start. The delay of game penalty didn't save Detroit any time at all because the game clock was not moving. THe only thing it did was make the field goal more difficult.

A delay of game can't occur until the game clock is stopped because when the play clock runs out the game clock stops at the same time. It wouldn't make sense to add a run off to that play even if the game clock were running at the time of the delay of game.

 

[Rob]

Huh?

He saved 10seconds with a TO. ATL saved 1:10 for him, being shitty. Caldwell was lucky, not wise.

Certainly we were lucky that Atl stopped the clock twice for us. But it doesn't change the fact that Caldwell did the right thing.

The dumb play of Atlanta has no bearing on the clock before the 2nd and 3rd plays occured.

Caldwell got to 2nd down and no timeouts left with 1:55 left on the clock.

You would have got to 2nd down and no timeouts left with about 1:50 left on the clock.

Look at the play by play and think about it for a minute. He was right.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Dead ball penalties do not cause a 10 second runoff. So the delay of game was called correctly and Atlanta has to question why the hell they were passing on third down. Plus the holding call just killed them.

I didn't say it was a bad call...I said it was a bad rule...10 sec run off should be in play regardless.

Secondly...did you see the Fox highlight show...looks like the snapper actually got the ball off in time.

That said...ATL blew that game and DET was in position to accept it due to some spirited 2nd half play.

 

[Rob]

I didn't say it was a bad call...I said it was a bad rule...10 sec run off should be in play regardless.

Secondly...did you see the Fox highlight show...looks like the snapper actually got the ball off in time.

That said...ATL blew that game and DET was in position to accept it due to some spirited 2nd half play.

I agree that it probably shouldn't have been called a delay of game because the snap was just about on time and usually they let that go because of how the officials have to make the call. They need to first see the clock hit zero THEN see the ball still on the ground so usually the call happens slightly after it hits zero.

But the 10 second run off should not be in play there. Detroit got zero, ZERO advantage out of the penalty.

 

[broncosmitty]

Certainly we were lucky that Atl stopped the clock twice for us. But it doesn't change the fact that Caldwell did the right thing.

The dumb play of Atlanta has no bearing on the clock before the 2nd and 3rd plays occured.

Caldwell got to 2nd down and no timeouts left with 1:55 left on the clock.

You would have got to 2nd down and no timeouts left with about 1:50 left on the clock.

Look at the play by play and think about it for a minute. He was right.

I've thought about it quite a bit since yesterday. And Im stuck on our Lions getting bailed out by a poorly timed Falcons holding call and a poor decision to call a short pass.

This is right there with trying to give the field goal team credit for making a do-over after they didn't get the play off, which was wide right.

Im just glad they won, despite an awful first half and some questionable (to me) late game decisions.

 

[Thruthefog]

What I took from this game is that the Lions finally have some coaches that can make adjustments at halftime.

I give the Atlanta OC credit for coming up with a game plan that allowed a patchwork OL to hold their own against our defensive front. I give Austin credit for making adjustments to get pressure on Ryan in the second half.

I won't argue that our offense didn't need a lot of luck to score 22 points in a half.

Also, not a single mention on this board that the Lions got fucked on the two point conversion. I guess because the Lions played well enough to overcome it.

 

[jdwills126]

I didn't say it was a bad call...I said it was a bad rule...10 sec run off should be in play regardless.

Secondly...did you see the Fox highlight show...looks like the snapper actually got the ball off in time.

That said...ATL blew that game and DET was in position to accept it due to some spirited 2nd half play.

I can't even say it is a bad rule. They have had this rule for a couple of years at least and this is the first time it helped a team that I can recall.

As for the call, I have seen the Lions get burned by the continuation rule and many other questionable calls to feel bad when one finally goes in their favor. Way to many times you see that call help the Broncos, Patriots and Packers of the NFL. While perenniel losing teams never seem to get the benefit of a penalty, so I am sorry if I have zero empathy for Atlanta.

 

[broncosmitty]

What I took from this game is that the Lions finally have some coaches that can make adjustments at halftime.

I give the Atlanta OC credit for coming up with a game plan that allowed a patchwork OL to hold their own against our defensive front. I give Austin credit for making adjustments to get pressure on Ryan in the second half.

I won't argue that our offense didn't need a lot of luck to score 22 points in a half.

Also, not a single mention on this board that the Lions got fucked on the two point conversion. I guess because the Lions played well enough to overcome it.

It was a short pass play. You can hit a receiver within five yards. (Not while the balls in the air though)

I didn't like the play call tbh.

I don't like a lot of Lombardis play calls.(He got a half a season before I mentioned that. He'll get a couple more games before I do any significant bitching.) Liked Riddick over the middle being the primary receiver on the last minute drive.

 

[Rob]

Im just glad they won, despite an awful first half and some questionable (to me) late game decisions.

No doubt the Lions were lucky to win yesterday. Caldwell had them playing like garbage in the first half. Caldwell hasn't yet had that classic Lions head coaching moment yet. He's been pretty good on the season in fact. His worst call to date is not going into the season with an NFL quality FG kicker on the roster.

 

[Thruthefog]

I didn't like the play call tbh.

I don't like a lot of Lombardis play calls.(He got a half a season before I mentioned that. He'll get a couple more games before I do any significant bitching.)

These sound like my thoughts on Lombardi. Gotta give him time, but it's runnin' out.

 

[Rob]

That was a "Riddick"ulous catch over the middle. Stafford was wayward with that throw but Stafford didnt try to gun it 100 miles per hour and Riddick bailed him out.

My hope going forward is Stafford will remember to use all of his weapons when Calvin comes back. He's got guys who can play if he can look away from CJ. As was mentioned earlier it is Stafford that largely contributes to CJ's aches and pains by over using him and putting him into bad positions. Also, CJ has to learn to go out of bounds and not seek contact after the catch.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I agree that it probably shouldn't have been called a delay of game because the snap was just about on time and usually they let that go because of how the officials have to make the call. They need to first see the clock hit zero THEN see the ball still on the ground so usually the call happens slightly after it hits zero.

But the 10 second run off should not be in play there. Detroit got zero, ZERO advantage out of the penalty.

They were penalized so no advantage as you say, but got to kick again AFTER committing a penalty. I understand that ATL caused the clock to be stopped by the DEF hold, but they were really hit with double penance there...the yardage and the stopped clock.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I can't even say it is a bad rule. They have had this rule for a couple of years at least and this is the first time it helped a team that I can recall.

As for the call, I have seen the Lions get burned by the continuation rule and many other questionable calls to feel bad when one finally goes in their favor. Way to many times you see that call help the Broncos, Patriots and Packers of the NFL. While perenniel losing teams never seem to get the benefit of a penalty, so I am sorry if I have zero empathy for Atlanta.

And I don't either, but it seems they paid double penance for the holding call.