The Question no one Wants to ask

[lilchi721]

Swine flu vs. coronavirus: COVID-19 death rate is the difference

 

[socaljim242]

I do not disagree with your measures for staying safe. I am also not saying that killing mass transportation in cities is inherently wrong, depending on the city. The local governments are close enough to the situation to make that call.

The panic caused by the fear mongering by the media is ridiculous. Even in your post, you are saying that if Joe gets it he will/may kill his parents/grandparents. You can say the same about the flu but during flu season would you claim we need the same level of federally mandated rules? There is a panic over testing ... why??? Unless one is having severe symptoms or underlying health issues with moderate symptoms then there is no reason to have a test, much less go to a doctor/ER/UC.

That is panic IMHO because Joe is probably not not going to have any long term effects from the virus and probably will only suffer mild symptoms that does not need professional medical care even IF he catches the virus. Unless Joe has underlying health problems, Joe only need to go about his life taking the same precautions he would in a normal flu season. Should he limit contact with the elderly and other high risk groups? Absolutely, but that in no way, shape, or form should be much of a reason for Joe to have to quit going in public and is the same behavior he should use during flu outbreaks.

The death rate for this thing is much higher than the flu. None of us has ever had this flu some the immunity is not there. My dads not in great shape and my moms had bad bronchitis in the past few years. People in their 2-s 30s and 40s have died in italy from this. Doctors in italy have died treating people with this. So yeah if I give it to them I could kill them. You want to roll the dice your parent or grandparent can handle this ?

 

[socaljim242]

You are dangerously wrong on this statement. Overreaction can cause everything from our medical system to be overwhelmed and the same goes for banking, shopping and the economy as a whole.

I'm talking about lives , you're talking about the economy.
Testing people is not overreaction. Having people stay out of large groups is not overreaction. Buying a years worth of toilet paper and five gallons mayo is overreacting

Three weeks ago Hannity and Newt Gingrich laughed at San Francisco for "overreacting " when they stopped large gatherings such as sporting events.

 

[batchaps4me]

The death rate for this thing is much higher than the flu. None of us has ever had this flu some the immunity is not there. My dads not in great shape and my moms had bad bronchitis in the past few years. People in their 2-s 30s and 40s have died in italy from this. Doctors in italy have died treating people with this. So yeah if I give it to them I could kill them. You want to roll the dice your parent or grandparent can handle this ?

My brother and sister in law have tested positive. They are self quarantined at home, both have asthma/allergies and have been sick for a week. Neither have been to a doctor/ER/UC but have had moderate symptoms and called their doctor. They have been treated with OTC meds for the symptoms and are over the hump, getting better by the day. Having the virus is not a death knell. Before you ask, her workplace medical, Exxon, sent a nurse to test them without them leaving their house.

We were last with them on 29FEB, when they flew home ... ironically probably caught the virus in transit ... and my mother in law is quarantined at her assisted living facility because of this. Our change in life is that we are not visiting her until it is safe for her.

Point being is that had my in laws' test came back negative, we would be taking the same measures to prevent my MIL from being at risk. I have two points to make:
1. Me and my wife are going about our business just the same as we would had the tests been negative. Taking precautions for at risk people is sound but acting like everyone that contacts this is going to die or be severely effected is panic. The only real changes we have made are washing our hands more and staying away from anyone that is at high risk of serious effects. There is no reason ... none ... for us to live in fear of our lives over this. We do NOT need the same level of caution/restrictions as my MIL. We need and have different rules for the precise reason that we are not in the high risk of death and/or long term effects groups.
2. The fact that everyone is more worried at a test result label instead of the symptoms is telling to the level of panic in the general public. The assisted living facility was aware from day one of my BIL's/SIL's symptoms. Again, this has been ongoing for over a week now. Precautions were immediately taken, MIL quarantined to her room, meals delivered there by one member of the nursing staff who has moved into a room there, isolated from all other staff and dealing only with my MIL(I would assume she would handle all patients with suspected contact, but there are none presently). Yesterday when notified that my BIL/SIL were positive, the facility wanted to send my MIL via ambulance to a hospital over 300 miles away for testing even though she has no symptoms and no contact within the window. That is a pure panic move and luckily was quashed.

I am not saying to be like the spring breakers in the news. I am saying that everyone knows their own health and what elevates the risks of serious consequences and should act accordingly with the level of precautions taken. I do not need to live under the same rules as my MIL because of panic induced mandates. The vast majority of people that contact the virus will not need medical care. We do not need to adjust every aspect of our lives over this ... TBH we are mostly homebodies under normal circumstances, but still ... we need not live, shop and act out of fear.

 

[Deep Creek]

Yes and no.

Where I live, there aren't any cases that I've heard of and the er is no busier than usual.

After an initial round of panic buying over the weekend, stores are, for the most part, well stocked. Other than them having special hours for senior citizens and only letting a certain number of people in at a time, it's not all that different.

Restaurants and bars are all still open. You still can't get your personal cup filled at Starbucks.

But, I'm in smaller city that doesn't have a lot of folks from all over the world like LA or the bay area. So it would make sense that we don't need to take quite as many precautions.

We must have more idiots than you do. What you describe is where I live. But we still have some idiots panic buying. I've come to the conclusion that the vaccine for the corona virus is huge dosages of toilet paper and eggs!

 

[batchaps4me]

I'm talking about lives , you're talking about the economy.
Testing people is not overreaction. Having people stay out of large groups is not overreaction. Buying a years worth of toilet paper and five gallons mayo is overreacting

Three weeks ago Hannity and Newt Gingrich laughed at San Francisco for "overreacting " when they stopped large gatherings such as sporting events.

Testing people that need not be tested is overreaction. For example, a person has mild or moderate symptoms. What does testing accomplish? There is no prescription for a cure and the symptoms are mild enough to be treated with OTC meds. That person should be told to act as if they have it and he/she should act accordingly.

Rushing to the UC/ER for mild symptoms in a low risk group is an overreaction. It is one that risks the healthcare facilities being overwhelmed and increases the risk of the individual with mild symptoms of actually catching the virus by going where the sick people are.

Eliminating groups in all places that are not effected, especially eliminating groups of people that are not at risk of severe symptoms is overreaction ... if the decision is not made locally.

The economy is not my only concern nor is it my primary one. But acting as if anyone that catches this virus is going to either die or kill someone else is just instilling panic that WILL overwhelm our medical system and destroy our economy. Target the high risk groups for protection does not mean that everyone must be restricted with the same protocols. Work to isolate those at risk, take precautions for everyone else while going about the business of living.

We are schizophrenic about this virus. On one hand we argue that it is more widespread than reported because of lack of testing and if that is true, then we deny that the average severity and mortality rates are not nearly as bad as we are told. IF it is not as widespread as some of us believe, then the virulence is not as bad as we think so extreme measures are not as warranted. Either way, the level of panic we see is unwarranted. Panic is more dangerous to our society than the disease.

 

[trojanfan12]

We must have more idiots than you do. What you describe is where I live. But we still have some idiots panic buying. I've come to the conclusion that the vaccine for the corona virus is huge dosages of toilet paper and eggs!

Apparently, people here think the cure is that cheap Ramen noodle stuff and laundry detergent because at the store I went to this morning, those were the only 2 sections where there wasn't much left.

 

[socaljim242]

Testing people that need not be tested is overreaction. For example, a person has mild or moderate symptoms. What does testing accomplish? There is no prescription for a cure and the symptoms are mild enough to be treated with OTC meds. That person should be told to act as if they have it and he/she should act accordingly.

Rushing to the UC/ER for mild symptoms in a low risk group is an overreaction. It is one that risks the healthcare facilities being overwhelmed and increases the risk of the individual with mild symptoms of actually catching the virus by going where the sick people are.

Eliminating groups in all places that are not effected, especially eliminating groups of people that are not at risk of severe symptoms is overreaction ... if the decision is not made locally.

The economy is not my only concern nor is it my primary one. But acting as if anyone that catches this virus is going to either die or kill someone else is just instilling panic that WILL overwhelm our medical system and destroy our economy. Target the high risk groups for protection does not mean that everyone must be restricted with the same protocols. Work to isolate those at risk, take precautions for everyone else while going about the business of living.

We are schizophrenic about this virus. On one hand we argue that it is more widespread than reported because of lack of testing and if that is true, then we deny that the average severity and mortality rates are not nearly as bad as we are told. IF it is not as widespread as some of us believe, then the virulence is not as bad as we think so extreme measures are not as warranted. Either way, the level of panic we see is unwarranted. Panic is more dangerous to our society than the disease.

You don't know if you have it . You could have absolutely no symptoms and have it. Thats why testing is important. Obviously right now since there are few tests the best is for people who have symptoms or have knowledge of being around someone who had it to get tested first and for you to practice the safe distance thing. As far as your thoughts about the severity if you do catch it just look at Italy.

 

[socaljim242]

Apparently, people here think the cure is that cheap Ramen noodle stuff and laundry detergent because at the store I went to this morning, those were the only 2 sections where there wasn't much left.

lol. I had to get my son to stop eating so much of that Ramen stuff when he was like 15 16. He would eat like three of those cups a day. The salt in those is crazy.

 

[trojanfan12]

lol. I had to get my son to stop eating so much of that Ramen stuff when he was like 15 16. He would eat like three of those cups a day. The salt in those is crazy.

Had to do the same with my son and one of the daughters.

I might have one or 2 of those a year. They're pretty tasty and filling, but like you said, the amount of salt is ridiculous.

 

[trojanfan12]

As far as your thoughts about the severity if you do catch it just look at Italy.

Posted this on the NBA boards. This guy seemed pretty reasoned with what he had to say:

I don't know anything about this guy, so folks can take it how they will.

I just saw an interview with Dr. Drew Pinsky, he's an internist that I guess also has a pod cast or something, anyway, he was saying the panic that the media is causing with it's clickbait articles and trying to get eyes on their networks is actually worse than the virus.

Basically, he said if you're someone who's vulnerable, stay in as much as possible. If you're a healthy person, wash your hands a lot and try not to gather in large crowds as much as possible.

If you think or know you might be infected or may have been in contact with someone who is, stay away from vulnerable family and friends.

He also said that it's not going to be Italy here. What's happened there apparently is a "perfect storm" of an older citizenry, most of whom smoke and they have the worst air quality of any European country.

He also said the our health system is far more ready for this than is being reported.

He said that what folks need to do is stop listening to the media reports and the stuff on twitter and follow what Dr. Fauci has been saying to do.

 

[Thiefery]

Had to do the same with my son and one of the daughters.

I might have one or 2 of those a year. They're pretty tasty and filling, but like you said, the amount of salt is ridiculous.

I lived on those during my Marines service. Go to the PX or naval exchange for the 10/$1 special. Rest of my paycheck was for bars and clubs in the VA Beach area

 

[socaljim242]

Had to do the same with my son and one of the daughters.

I might have one or 2 of those a year. They're pretty tasty and filling, but like you said, the amount of salt is ridiculous.

Now going to a Ramen restaurant is a different story. There's a couple of them I love going to.

 

[socaljim242]

I lived on those during my Marines service. Go to the PX or naval exchange for the 10/$1 special. Rest of my paycheck was for bars and clubs in the VA Beach area

lol. I would eat late night fried rice or soup soba off the truck at the Marine Air base in Iwakuni Japan.

 

[batchaps4me]

You don't know if you have it . You could have absolutely no symptoms and have it. Thats why testing is important.

That is exactly why the importance placed on general testing is an overreaction ... unless you are high risk or are developing the severe classed symptoms (moderate symptoms call your PCP or hotline). There is no need of infecting medical workers by a sick person that needs no medical care due to their mild nature of their symptoms. If you suspect you have been exposed, isolate yourself ... If you are a high risk, isolate yourself ... everyone else take precautions but go about your business.

 

[78Cyclones]

Are we going to have a football season this fall, college and pro?

I would give up the entire football season to rid the country of this awful virus. / thread

 

[socaljim242]

That is exactly why the importance placed on general testing is an overreaction ... unless you are high risk or are developing the severe classed symptoms (moderate symptoms call your PCP or hotline). There is no need of infecting medical workers by a sick person that needs no medical care due to their mild nature of their symptoms. If you suspect you have been exposed, isolate yourself ... If you are a high risk, isolate yourself ... everyone else take precautions but go about your business.

lol. You make no sense. If people listened to you no one would get tested and it would get passed even more. You're not getting that many people with no symptoms can have it and pass it to people who it could affect severely. I get taking precautions which we should all do but if you have no clue if you have it and "go about your business" you could be spreading it to people who had no idea you have it. Thats why testing it important. That's why South Korea was testing 20k people a day.

 

[olympicoscar]

I would give up the entire football season to rid the country of this awful virus. / thread

Amen.

 

[batchaps4me]

lol. You make no sense. If people listened to you no one would get tested and it would get passed even more. You're not getting that many people with no symptoms can have it and pass it to people who it could affect severely. I get taking precautions which we should all do but if you have no clue if you have it and "go about your business" you could be spreading it to people who had no idea you have it. Thats why testing it important. That's why South Korea was testing 20k people a day.

You are misrepresenting my position:
1. Nobody would get tested from nobody that has no or mild symptoms without underlying medical issues needs testing. If you have no, mild or moderate symptoms without certain underlying medical conditions, you have no need for testing. If you have any mild or moderate symptoms or have certain underlying medical problems, act like you have the virus. Having the virus identified has zero effect on these groups with these symptoms. You are not in need of any professional medical treatments.
2. "Going about your business" could spread it to others who could be severely effect others ... not if the groups that are at an elevated risk follow step 1. Let me repeat ... if you are at high risk or have symptoms, isolate yourself.
3. Testing is important ... Only if you are having severe symptoms alone or mild/moderate symptoms with certain underlying medical conditions. If not, you are wasting resources. Only when you display moderate symptoms should you call ... not visit ... your primary doctor. Going to the PCP/ER/UC with mild or moderate symptoms without certain underlying conditions is needlessly putting others at risk of catching the virus. There is no medical of having a diagnosis with mild symptoms.

Your way is to assume that everyone with any or NO symptoms are covid19 positive which is a tremendous waste of resources and unduly taxing the systems we have including the medical, economic and social systems. That is a panic driven model.

 

[CorpRebel]

We must have more idiots than you do. What you describe is where I live. But we still have some idiots panic buying. I've come to the conclusion that the vaccine for the corona virus is huge dosages of toilet paper and eggs!

In my dinky town grocery stores, all paper goods like tp, paper towels, kleenex etc are. empty. Eggs, bread and most food items (except for meats, frozen veggies, pet food/supplies) are in good supply (as of today, anyway).

Might have to resort to this if TP shortage continues too much after this month ends. Fortunately I'm well stocked with cat litter!

Good Luck Everyone!!!