The Posey done for the year thread

[filosofy29]

Cousins himself admitted he intentionally blew up Posey. You're trying to quibble over "out of his way." The rule book is plain on this. It's interference.

Did Cousins also admit that he intentionally "went out of his way" to blow up Posey?

 

[ElJimador]

No. Haven't heard that. But, worst case, assuming he has a torn acl and meniscus damage, I could see him not catching in 2012, or ever again. Gonna be tough to do much rehab until the broken leg/foot heals.

Marcus makes one really good point though:

My point: If Any of the big money players had run into Posey odds are they slide or try to go around the throw. Cousins had nothing to lose Posey has everything to lose.

Actually I don't think that's quite right. The big money players have already earned their guaranteed contracts that have them set up for life. What would Hanley Ramirez have to lose if he injured himself barrelling into a catcher? He already knows he's going to live the rest of his life as a very rich man either way. Meanwhile a guy like Cousins even if he just scuffles around making MLB minimum would probably have to work 5 years in the real world to earn what he makes each year he sticks in the show. So it's not that he has nothing to lose but that he has a lot more to gain. Because baseball culture celebrates its "scrappy" "hard-nosed" "gamers" who are willing to do what he did.

Agree with that culture or not, I have a hard time blaming Cousins for it.

 

[SFAnthem]

Hate this thread and its existence

still pissed

shoulda happened when AJ's stench was behind the plate.

 

[filosofy29]

Hate this thread and its existence

still pissed

shoulda happened when AJ's stench was behind the plate.

Agreed. But I think it's a good thing too. We all need to vent out our frustrations sometimes. We can't always ALL get along asshole. Everybody stayed relatively respectful. It's a passionate topic, passionate debate was sure to follow.

Yes.

Yes. I loathe A.J. Pierzynski.....and not because of what we lost in the trade. Just his overall dickface-i-ness.

 

[SFAnthem]

Agreed. But I think it's a good thing too. We all need to vent out our frustrations sometimes. We can't always ALL get along asshole. Everybody stayed relatively respectful. It's a passionate topic, passionate debate was sure to follow.

Yes.

Yes. I loathe A.J. Pierzynski.....and not because of what we lost in the trade. Just his overall dickface-i-ness.

Yeah just sucks that an occurrence happened that a thread titled as such had to be made.

Of course it was the terrible result of the play that escalated everyone's take x100000

I respected that cal didn't back off his take

aside from losing him for possibly the year, I was in a funk all day thinking how an ankle tendon strain plus leg bone breaks will hamper a catcher and a once lumbering baserunner for the rest of his Giants career.

Plus, I lost my unwritten rules of baseball handbook and just starting speaking from the heart - nothing new for me

 

[filosofy29]

Yeah just sucks that an occurrence happened that a thread titled as such had to be made.

Plus, I lost my unwritten rules of baseball handbook and just starting speaking from the heart - nothing new for me

Wow, I missed the entire point of you saying that you "hate this thread and it's existence" thing.

We all do from time to time.....that's what I like about all the posters here. All of you feckers are smart (or at least smarter than me, lol), but you also speak off the cuff like me sometimes too. At least you have a heart. Mine was ripped out in Vancouver.

 

[SFAnthem]

Wow, I missed the entire point of you saying that you "hate this thread and it's existence" thing.

We all do from time to time.....that's what I like about all the posters here. All of you feckers are smart (or at least smarter than me, lol), but you also speak off the cuff like me sometimes too. At least you have a heart. Mine was ripped out in Vancouver.

tough one for sharks faithful, may this year and the other playoff disappointments be the "2002" and you guys lift the curse next year (and let me party with sharks fans, too)

don't know about the smart part, everyone here has 99 IQs cept me "if I only had a brain"

almost makes us a wussy lion and dorothy short of being a classic movie. Marcus and nonsense are auditioning for the roles so I hear. tito is obviously toto.


fek it. I'm saying to this thread and Posey's coming back miraculously Willis Reed style and will rise on the third month to lead the Giants down the playoff stretch again.

 

[msgkings322]

fek it. I'm saying to this thread and Posey's coming back miraculously Willis Reed style and will rise on the third month to lead the Giants down the playoff stretch again.[/QUOTE]

Speaking of...this can't be right, can it?

Back by August?

Buster Posey of San Francisco Giants on DL with broken bone in leg - ESPN

 

[SFAnthem]

fek it. I'm saying to this thread and Posey's coming back miraculously Willis Reed style and will rise on the third month to lead the Giants down the playoff stretch again.

Speaking of...this can't be right, can it?

Back by August?

Buster Posey of San Francisco Giants on DL with broken bone in leg - ESPN[/QUOTE]


hope against hope?

btw, my with this thread lies solely with the incident - not the messenger, msg

 

[tzill]

I'm not quibbling over language. I disagree that, in real time, Cousins actions resembled interference.

"Offensive interference is an act by the team at bat which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play."

His intent was clear: score a run. There is almost no way for a catcher to not block at least a small portion of the plate on a good throw. He has to get where the ball is before it gets there. That is fair. It is also fair to run in a straight line through to the back of the plate. You disagree and say that you saw Cousins veer towards Posey. I don't think you could've seen that in real time unless you were set to the home plate camera and specifically looking for it. The umpire is looking for the ball, the plate the tag and the timing of it all (in nano-seconds). I don't think adding a finer point to seek out is wise unless we want to review all plays at the plate, too. In that case, it will almost always be interference or obstruction. That doesn't seem like a good way to settle things.

They might as well just stop half-way down the line and have a thumb war to decide who gets the run or the out. No one will get hurt then either. That would let the players decide the outcome on the field, too.

1. The bolded is just not true, Heath. Catchers are routinely taught today to do exactly what Buster did -- stand a couple of feet IN FRONT of the plate to receive the throw from the outfield. Buster only moved back a bit b/c the ball short hopped him. Now, if you want to argue that Buster obstructed, you might have a (relatively weak) argument.
2. You're drifting off into the land of straw men and bad analogies. Look, you're a bright guy; I've read hundreds of your posts and I know this to be true. FWIW, here's what I saw in real time:

I saw Posey set up a couple of feet in front of the plate -- not blocking at all. The throw short hopped him and he moved back a half step, possibly blocking a small portion of the plate. Cousins ran straight into Posey and wasn't particularly close to the plate when he made contact.

3. Here's what I saw on the replay: Cousins changed his angle from straight at the plate to straight at Posey about ten feet from home. He would have had to veer from outside the foul line to inside to be able to get to Posey. In slow motion it's REALLY obvious that it was interference. In real time, all you had to do was follow Posey's position and it was pretty clearly interference (about 85% sure). I would have disagreed but understood an obstruction call (a 15% probability).

4. Re: using replay. It's used all the time to review hockey goals, buzzer beating basketball shots, and TD catches. It really wouldn't be very hard to review collisions. Again, if the rule book were strictly enforced there'd be very few to call anyway.

Bottom line: if everything you argue is correct, why don't we see collisions regularly at first base?

 

[TOX1]

Cousins didn't need to go into home like that. It's just that simple.

As a Phils fan I always look forward to seeing the kid play, but now thanks to that over zealous douche bags body slam....I and other fans around the league are robbed of seeing a true talent this year.

Tough break, sorry brothers..

 

[tzill]

Official prognosis is 6-8 weeks, which has Posey back beginning of August.

I bet he makes it back this year and is effective.

 

[ElJimador]

Official prognosis is 6-8 weeks, which has Posey back beginning of August.

I bet he makes it back this year and is effective.

I don't know, man. We'd all love that but everything I'm seeing says it's going to be 6-8 weeks before he's even starting rehab and that's going to take a while too. Being realistic about it, if he does make it back this year it won't be catching. Maybe he can be the 1B but the Giants would really have to assess the wisdom of that too (depending what they're getting from the position at the time and how much difference Posey could actually make vs. the risk of re-injury). I think there's a good chance they would decide it's smarter to just shut him down for the year even if he could make it back.

 

[msgkings322]

I don't know, man. We'd all love that but everything I'm seeing says it's going to be 6-8 weeks before he's even starting rehab and that's going to take a while too. Being realistic about it, if he does make it back this year it won't be catching. Maybe he can be the 1B but the Giants would really have to assess the wisdom of that too (depending what they're getting from the position at the time and how much difference Posey could actually make vs. the risk of re-injury). I think there's a good chance they would decide it's smarter to just shut him down for the year even if he could make it back.

They'll probably go with what's happening with the team to decide. If we are cruising with a nice lead somehow, with Panda and Belt and Huff doing their thing, we'd likely be more careful, have him take his time. If we're totally washed out, way back in the division, same thing. If we're in a dogfight, they may err on the side of aggression and have him come back sooner.

Remember, another silver lining on this is how young Buster is. Younger guys heal a lot faster from stuff small and large. If he was 34 or something I'd be a lot more skeptical, but at his age with some luck he could very well contribute again this year.

Gotta keep the faith!

 

[tzill]

I don't know, man. We'd all love that but everything I'm seeing says it's going to be 6-8 weeks before he's even starting rehab and that's going to take a while too. Being realistic about it, if he does make it back this year it won't be catching. Maybe he can be the 1B but the Giants would really have to assess the wisdom of that too (depending what they're getting from the position at the time and how much difference Posey could actually make vs. the risk of re-injury). I think there's a good chance they would decide it's smarter to just shut him down for the year even if he could make it back.

I just listened to the press conference with Dave Groeschner and he said the 6-8 week estimate INCLUDES rehab. I'm going to remain optimistic and say that he'll be a solid contributor at the catcher position in September.

 

[Heathbar012]

I just listened to the press conference with Dave Groeschner and he said the 6-8 week estimate INCLUDES rehab. I'm going to remain optimistic and say that he'll be a solid contributor at the catcher position in September.

That is great fucking news. Regardless of what happens this season, that eases concerns about next year.

 

[Heathbar012]

1. The bolded is just not true, Heath. Catchers are routinely taught today to do exactly what Buster did -- stand a couple of feet IN FRONT of the plate to receive the throw from the outfield. Buster only moved back a bit b/c the ball short hopped him. Now, if you want to argue that Buster obstructed, you might have a (relatively weak) argument.
2. You're drifting off into the land of straw men and bad analogies. Look, you're a bright guy; I've read hundreds of your posts and I know this to be true. FWIW, here's what I saw in real time:

I saw Posey set up a couple of feet in front of the plate -- not blocking at all. The throw short hopped him and he moved back a half step, possibly blocking a small portion of the plate. Cousins ran straight into Posey and wasn't particularly close to the plate when he made contact.

3. Here's what I saw on the replay: Cousins changed his angle from straight at the plate to straight at Posey about ten feet from home. He would have had to veer from outside the foul line to inside to be able to get to Posey. In slow motion it's REALLY obvious that it was interference. In real time, all you had to do was follow Posey's position and it was pretty clearly interference (about 85% sure). I would have disagreed but understood an obstruction call (a 15% probability).

4. Re: using replay. It's used all the time to review hockey goals, buzzer beating basketball shots, and TD catches. It really wouldn't be very hard to review collisions. Again, if the rule book were strictly enforced there'd be very few to call anyway.

Bottom line: if everything you argue is correct, why don't we see collisions regularly at first base?

I put my answer to the first base question in the other thread. To clear up some other points, I'm not trying to assert that Buster was obstructing the plate. I'm pointing out the dangers of that particular judgment call being put in the hands of the home plate umpire. I realize that my interpretation of the play in real time was skewed by prior experiences with baseball. You're right that baseball is a non-contact sport and should remain that way as much as possible.

I have adopted too much of a gladiator-like expectation of all athletes and sports. I may not have liked anything about the outcome, but I commended Cousins for the effort. It seems that his effort was illegal and should have been interpreted as such. I guess he joins a long line of successful cheaters in the sports that I enjoy. Man, what a sad realization. But fuck that guy, Raptor Jesus for the rules discussion!

 

[Heathbar012]

They'll probably go with what's happening with the team to decide. If we are cruising with a nice lead somehow, with Panda and Belt and Huff doing their thing, we'd likely be more careful, have him take his time. If we're totally washed out, way back in the division, same thing. If we're in a dogfight, they may err on the side of aggression and have him come back sooner.

Remember, another silver lining on this is how young Buster is. Younger guys heal a lot faster from stuff small and large. If he was 34 or something I'd be a lot more skeptical, but at his age with some luck he could very well contribute again this year.

Gotta keep the faith!

+1. This hypothetical older player with a gruesome injury. He wouldn't happen to resemble a certain super-utility guy with a hot wife and the initials M.D.,would he? Why hasn't he announced his retirement, by the way? Would he not get his money? Does he actually think he is going to play professional baseball again someday?

 

[msgkings322]

+1. This hypothetical older player with a gruesome injury. He wouldn't happen to resemble a certain super-utility guy with a hot wife and the initials M.D.,would he? Why hasn't he announced his retirement, by the way? Would he not get his money? Does he actually think he is going to play professional baseball again someday?

I think he'd void the money, yes. And he might still hope against hope to play again...

 

[Heathbar012]

I think he'd void the money, yes. And he might still hope against hope to play again...

Hahahaha. Excellent use of the crazy smiley face.