THE PAC12 THREAD v.4

[wazzu31]

F'n PAC refs. Gawd....

I feel bad for ASU as we were on that r*pe job against Stanford. I'd rather games take 4 plus hours and officials huddle and get it right than all this horseshit officiating.

I lost all respect for the Pac12 officiating when I found out what it takes to qualify. I have a co worker who is one suspension, retiring or a sick call away from being a frickin line judge on a crew and he's not exactly the most mentally stable or physically abled person.

 

[Not Neutral]

[

I'm 1 for 5 at this point. I'll bounce back though. I've got a bet with wallace I'm pretty confident about, and of course our wager. I know you're feeling good about it, but oregon's got a long way to go before they're crowed pac 12 champs...

 

[TheDayMan]

I feel bad for ASU as we were on that r*pe job against Stanford. I'd rather games take 4 plus hours and officials huddle and get it right than all this horseshit officiating.

I lost all respect for the Pac12 officiating when I found out what it takes to qualify. I have a co worker who is one suspension, retiring or a sick call away from being a frickin line judge on a crew and he's not exactly the most mentally stable or physically abled person.

It's just crazy. It's mind blowing how it's worse than ever after being so bad for so long... Spare me the 'they're just part time' excuse, they make good money for working one Saturday a week in the fall. Hold them accountable somehow. I don't know what the solution is, it's not up to me to come up with it. You'd think the pac 12, and the rest of the NCAA would care enough that it's making their product significantly worse to figure out a fix though.

Pay them better and make it a full time job thay requires more qualifications? Do away with conference ties? Figure out a way to make them more accountable when they make ridiculous mistakes? I don't care, but figure it out.

Bad calls are part of the game, and no matter the sport, fans hate the refs, but it's just on another level. Maybe ask the NFL how they manage to get refs who don't make their incompetence the focal point at some point in every single fucking game, and go from there...

 

[TheDayMan]

[

What?

 

[WizardHawk]

It's just crazy. It's mind blowing how it's worse than ever after being so bad for so long... Spare me the 'they're just part time' excuse, they make good money for working one Saturday a week in the fall. Hold them accountable somehow. I don't know what the solution is, it's not up to me to come up with it. You'd think the pac 12, and the rest of the NCAA would care enough that it's making their product significantly worse to figure out a fix though.

Pay them better and make it a full time job thay requires more qualifications? Do away with conference ties? Figure out a way to make them more accountable when they make ridiculous mistakes? I don't care, but figure it out.

Bad calls are part of the game, and no matter the sport, fans hate the refs, but it's just on another level. Maybe ask the NFL how they manage to get refs who don't make their incompetence the focal point at some point in every single fucking game, and go from there...

Pac12 referees make between $2,500 and $3,000 per game. This includes their travel expenses. And this is also just for the referees, not the umpire and judges. They make far less. Those lower positions can make as little as $800 a game. So while Pac12 head refs can make upward of $40k/year that doesn't include their expenses for travel and lodging/meals and their crew isn't getting rich off their jobs. The average per week pay for all 7 positions on the crew is something in the ball park of $1,400 across all P5 conferences.

Highschool refs make around $100 a game so it's a hell of a jump from that level to major D1 pay. Lower division college obviously is somewhere in the middle.

The NFL pays rookie refs more than double what a D1 ref can make and the average pay is around $173k/year which is well above what average MLB umps make and they have a much more grueling schedule.

Refs tend to do games near where they live which also means it's impossible to get total impartiality. It's not uncommon for crews to work on games from schools they actually went to. Leach was fined once for pointing that out in a TT game against Texas with a ref from Texas.

There has been talk of going centralized conference control centers in the NFL model where a group of top refs would be able to live review things sent to the booth. This would fix a few things each week, but not really solve the large problem. The Nebraska game and Miami one last week would have been fixed with such a review, but not most of the BS that happens in every other game at this level. It won't fix glaring discrepancies with obvious stuff that doesn't get called at all. Still, this needs to happen and is overdue. The Pac should have a HQ and the ability to override calls going to review. Further, they should be able to review every targeting call and confirm or overturn their impact on that players eligibility for the next game.

If you want to really up the quality of the officiating at this level you need to up the pay. I mean double it and make travel costs be outside of that pay. Attract better candidates and as part of that pay require they spend more off season time in training, testing, and ongoing evaluations.

Further, it's time to band the P5 conferences together and make the refs at this level a global pool and require no ref can work on games to which they have school affiliation.

The money is there and no one can deny that. The game's biggest flaw at this level is the terribly inconsistent officiating. Money can go a long way to addressing it. So spend it you idiots.

 

[TheDayMan]

Pac12 referees make between $2,500 and $3,000 per game. This includes their travel expenses. And this is also just for the referees, not the umpire and judges. They make far less. Those lower positions can make as little as $800 a game. So while Pac12 head refs can make upward of $40k/year that doesn't include their expenses for travel and lodging/meals and their crew isn't getting rich off their jobs. The average per week pay for all 7 positions on the crew is something in the ball park of $1,400 across all P5 conferences.

Highschool refs make around $100 a game so it's a hell of a jump from that level to major D1 pay. Lower division college obviously is somewhere in the middle.

The NFL pays rookie refs more than double what a D1 ref can make and the average pay is around $173k/year which is well above what average MLB umps make and they have a much more grueling schedule.

Refs tend to do games near where they live which also means it's impossible to get total impartiality. It's not uncommon for crews to work on games from schools they actually went to. Leach was fined once for pointing that out in a TT game against Texas with a ref from Texas.

There has been talk of going centralized conference control centers in the NFL model where a group of top refs would be able to live review things sent to the booth. This would fix a few things each week, but not really solve the large problem. The Nebraska game and Miami one last week would have been fixed with such a review, but not most of the BS that happens in every other game at this level. It won't fix glaring discrepancies with obvious stuff that doesn't get called at all. Still, this needs to happen and is overdue. The Pac should have a HQ and the ability to override calls going to review. Further, they should be able to review every targeting call and confirm or overturn their impact on that players eligibility for the next game.

If you want to really up the quality of the officiating at this level you need to up the pay. I mean double it and make travel costs be outside of that pay. Attract better candidates and as part of that pay require they spend more off season time in training, testing, and ongoing evaluations.

Further, it's time to band the P5 conferences together and make the refs at this level a global pool and require no ref can work on games to which they have school affiliation.

The money is there and no one can deny that. The game's biggest flaw at this level is the terribly inconsistent officiating. Money can go a long way to addressing it. So spend it you idiots.

I question If the crew that aren't the head referee makes significantly less than the referee, everything I've been able to look up suggests their pay is based more on experience. I'm also skeptical of the claim that none of their travel expenses are covered. But either way, I'm not going accept that earning between $30k and $50k for one real day of work a week over 3 months is grossly underpaid.

Either way, okay. If you think higher pay would attract better candidates, great. Let's get the conferences on board. They can afford it.

 

[wazzu31]

There is no question the NCAA needs full time officials but they shouldn't be limited to just football. If you are paid full time by the NCAA to officiate you should be able to do football then an occasional soccer match or whatever 3rd and 4th tier sports are. Most of the officals the Pac12 has is looking square in the eye of retirement, make it a full time position, get younger and make them accountable.

 

[WizardHawk]

I question If the crew that aren't the head referee makes significantly less than the referee, everything I've been able to look up suggests their pay is based more on experience. I'm also skeptical of the claim that none of their travel expenses are covered. But either way, I'm not going accept that earning between $30k and $50k for one real day of work a week over 3 months is grossly underpaid.

Either way, okay. If you think higher pay would attract better candidates, great. Let's get the conferences on board. They can afford it.

Canzano: It's time we all cut the Pac-12 officials a break
There were others that suggested the inclusive travel costs as well, but their travel isn't that much in regional games as they try to keep them nearer their homes. Travel is probably higher in the Pac than say the SEC where most venues are drivable.

And the point of making it double that price is you can expect them to work more than one day a week. Make them professional and you can add a lot more time for training, testing, and evaluating. They should have to study their own games and go play by play on things they miss etc. It would dramatically improve their overall performance.

 

[TheDayMan]

Canzano: It's time we all cut the Pac-12 officials a break
There were others that suggested the inclusive travel costs as well, but their travel isn't that much in regional games as they try to keep them nearer their homes. Travel is probably higher in the Pac than say the SEC where most venues are drivable.

And the point of making it double that price is you can expect them to work more than one day a week. Make them professional and you can add a lot more time for training, testing, and evaluating. They should have to study their own games and go play by play on things they miss etc. It would dramatically improve their overall performance.

Pac-12 officials make between $2,700 and $2,900 per game, inclusive of their travel expenses.

Okay, so according to that they get screwed on their travel expenses. But it implies that all officials make about $2800/game, not just the head referee. So, that's about $36.5k, not including whatever they make for a bowl game and minus travel expenses. So they are taking home somewhere around $26k, for working one day week over 3 months. Poor guys, what a terrible deal...

 

[TheDayMan]

There is no question the NCAA needs full time officials but they shouldn't be limited to just football. If you are paid full time by the NCAA to officiate you should be able to do football then an occasional soccer match or whatever 3rd and 4th tier sports are. Most of the officals the Pac12 has is looking square in the eye of retirement, make it a full time position, get younger and make them accountable.

This sounds like a plan. Make officiating a full time job with good pay, and work all year. And make it like any other real job, if you make stupid mistakes, you no longer get to have said job.

 

[wazzu31]

I don't know how the whole travel thing works but my co worker said the conference told him he couldn't do UW games, most likely stuck with Arizona's and So Cal schools home games.

 

[WizardHawk]

Okay, so according to that they get screwed on their travel expenses. But it implies that all officials make about $2800/game, not just the head referee. So, that's about $36.5k, not including whatever they make for a bowl game and minus travel expenses. So they are taking home somewhere around $26k, for working one day week over 3 months. Poor guys, what a terrible deal...

If you google college referee salary you will find lots of facts and figures. Most say refs make more than judges and umpires on the field and several suggested the lowest makes around $800 a game for those more entry level positions. They are not all paid equally. It takes a long time to make head ref on those crews it stands to reason they should get paid more.

If you have links verifying that all 7 are on the same pay scale then by all means post it.

 

[TheDayMan]

If you google college referee salary you will find lots of facts and figures. Most say refs make more than judges and umpires on the field and several suggested the lowest makes around $800 a game for those more entry level positions. They are not all paid equally. It takes a long time to make head ref on those crews it stands to reason they should get paid more.

If you have links verifying that all 7 are on the same pay scale then by all means post it.

Start with the one you posted... beyond that, I haven't bothered to go beyond page one of a simple Google search, everything says about the same. Typically between $2000 and $3500 for the big conferences. Everything gives the general term "officials," not distinguishing between position, and citing experience as what determines what they get. Everything mentioned other sports' (other than basketball) officials making significantly less, in the $400-$800 range. But I've seen nothing that suggests there is thay much discrepancy between head referees, and other position officials.

If they are getting $800, that would barely cover travel expences, I doubt any of them are doing it for free. So I don't see how that can be right.

 

[trojanfight]

 

[trojanfan12]

I agree with making being a ref a full time job that pays well. Seems they spend the week concentrating on their regular jobs, then have to do some travelling (even if fairly local), concentrate on that job for 3-4 hours and then go back to their regular job.

If it's a full time gig, they can spend the days between games studying tape, attending trainings and working out to stay in shape so they can keep up on Saturday.

In the off-season, more trainings, seminars, staying in shape and they can also be sent to referee spring games, scrimmages, etc.

 

[trojanfan12]

Dude reminds me a lot of Reggie Bush.

Spoiler

Hopefully minus the free house.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

The NFL pays rookie refs more than double what a D1 ref can make and the average pay is around $173k/year

Exactly what a US Senator makes...no wonder this country is so fucked up.

just sayin

 

[OregonDucks]

Oregon vs Stanford week!!!!! OH YA!

 

[trojanfan12]

I agree with making being a ref a full time job that pays well. Seems they spend the week concentrating on their regular jobs, then have to do some travelling (even if fairly local), concentrate on that job for 3-4 hours and then go back to their regular job.

If it's a full time gig, they can spend the days between games studying tape, attending trainings and working out to stay in shape so they can keep up on Saturday.

In the off-season, more trainings, seminars, staying in shape and they can also be sent to referee spring games, scrimmages, etc.

Btw, where do I apply?

 

[Texas Jefe]

Pac12 referees make between $2,500 and $3,000 per game. This includes their travel ex......part of that pay require they spend more off season time in training, testing, and ongoing evaluations.

Further, it's time to band the P5 conferences together and make the refs at this level a global pool and require no ref can work on games to which they have school affiliation.

The money is there and no one can deny that. The game's biggest flaw at this level is the terribly inconsistent officiating. Money can go a long way to addressing it. So spend it you idiots.

This is just one reason why the P5 conferences need/probably will at some point, band together: they need one overall commish and officiating group leader as well, and have it all under one roof...similar to the NFL.