The old "fighting in hockey debate"...

[Forty_Sixand2]

The topic of violence in sports came up overon the main board, in a discussion on MMA. I am interested in getting everyone to chime in on their feelings regarding the topic. My feelings are a bit scattered, inconsistent and admittedly provide au unfixable set of circumstances, but here are my two cents anyway:


When the playoffs roll around, fighting becomes almost non-existent and staged fights never occur. Throw in the physical games in the Olympics and I think it is a useful debate.


I do not particularly enjoy fighting in hockey either. I like it in some situations, but for the most part I do not. When it is one of those planned fights between 2 guys who do nothing but fight, it is lame and a circus act:


When it is a stupid reaction to a clean hit, it is SUPER lame




HOWEVER!!!!


When it is a reactionary fighr between a couple of good players to turn the energy around and move the needle on the bench, it has it's merits:

[YOUTUBE]hDsK5HH-K3c[/YOUTUBE]

And, it is understandable when it is defending a teammate after a clear and dangerous cheap shot:


If you took fighting out of hockey, I would have no problem with it. If they keep it in, I will still watch, but laugh about how much of a joke it is in some situations. I know you can not legislate out the stupid fights, so I would err on the side of getting rid of all of it.

 

[The Croz Man Cometh]

Staged fights are retarded and need to be removed from hockey, but the good fights that are spur of the moment emotion boiling over moments are good. They can stay.

I really hate that before the game the fight between the 2 heavy weights on the team are trying to syke themselves up for throwing down with the other guy. One moment I remember if a Pens/Flyers game a couple years ago when Laraque and Cote went at it. the whole warm up skate Cote was skating around trying to get himeself in the fighting mood. Not trying to pick on the Flyers, but that is the only one that comes to mind. Those kinds of fight are garbage.

 

[Darkstone42]

Staged fights are pretty lame, I agree, but the fights after clean hits I think are a good way to get momentum immediately back. A guy decks someone, his team has the momentum, you go fight him and slow down the game, they lose some of that momentum. You win the fight, you get the momentum. I don't know if that's what's going through the player's mind when he does it, but that's the effect I usually see from it.

Additionally, it makes a big hitter think about it. Big hitters make their impact by hitting, and if they start feeling a little reserved about hitting guys, that can take them out of the game. It's an effective method of taking away the impact of an impact player and giving your teammates more time and space to skate freely.

I think the game would be better without fights for that reason, but they also have a benefit.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Staged fights are pretty lame, I agree, but the fights after clean hits I think are a good way to get momentum immediately back. A guy decks someone, his team has the momentum, you go fight him and slow down the game, they lose some of that momentum. You win the fight, you get the momentum. I don't know if that's what's going through the player's mind when he does it, but that's the effect I usually see from it.

Additionally, it makes a big hitter think about it. Big hitters make their impact by hitting, and if they start feeling a little reserved about hitting guys, that can take them out of the game. It's an effective method of taking away the impact of an impact player and giving your teammates more time and space to skate freely.

I think the game would be better without fights for that reason, but they also have a benefit.

I can see a fight fter a clean hit on a superstar, but after EVERY clean hit, it is just crazy. I mean, the fight is not going to intimidate the big hitter, but it does force them out of the game for 5 minutes which is stupid, especially if it is a defenseman who plays a lot of minutes. I guess I just don't like the chance of losing a guy for 5 minutes because he caught a guy with his head down. I dfo not doubt the tougness of a guy like Witt, in the figtht above, but he IS a minute eater for the Isles and you are taking him off the ice for 5 minutes. Does that make any sense?

 

[Darkstone42]

I can see a fight fter a clean hit on a superstar, but after EVERY clean hit, it is just crazy. I mean, the fight is not going to intimidate the big hitter, but it does force them out of the game for 5 minutes which is stupid, especially if it is a defenseman who plays a lot of minutes. I guess I just don't like the chance of losing a guy for 5 minutes because he caught a guy with his head down. I dfo not doubt the tougness of a guy like Witt, in the figtht above, but he IS a minute eater for the Isles and you are taking him off the ice for 5 minutes. Does that make any sense?

It does, and doesn't it also make sense for a team to get its opponent's minutes eater off the ice for 5 minutes? I don't like seeing it either, but it gives the team that starts the fight a small advantage.

 

[Automattic]

I think fights affect the playoffs more than most people think. I have seen many seasons that had postseasons filled with healthy superstars because somebody was watching their ass all season long to ensure they would be A-OK during the most important time of the year...

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

It does, and doesn't it also make sense for a team to get its opponent's minutes eater off the ice for 5 minutes? I don't like seeing it either, but it gives the team that starts the fight a small advantage.

No, it does. I was not trying to argue so much as further elaborate on my point.

 

[Darkstone42]

No, it does. I was not trying to argue so much as further elaborate on my point.

Oh, I agree with you that it's bogus, but from the players' perspective, it has too many advantages to start the fight. The player who makes the hit just needs to be smart and turn it down, not drop the gloves. Then, not only does his team have the momentum from the hit, but he'll likely only get 2 for roughing while the other guy will get 5, and his team will end up netting a 3-minute major powerplay.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I think fights affect the playoffs more than most people think. I have seen many seasons that had postseasons filled with healthy superstars because somebody was watching their ass all season long to ensure they would be A-OK during the most important time of the year...

Judging by your picture, I just want to see a fight between and you and Tox.

 

[Automattic]

Judging by your picture, I just want to see a fight between and you and Tox.

It would probably be epic, that is until the Tox decided to Hulk out all over me. I hear that he actually glows in the dark...

 

[dare2be]

It would probably be epic, that is until the Tox decided to Hulk out all over me. I hear that he actually glows in the dark...

That would be an unfair fight...you're not in his age class...although he does have weapons such as canes and walkers...

 

[Automattic]

That would be an unfair fight...you're not in his age class...although he does have weapons such as canes and walkers...

Oh snap! lol

IPW, this needs a gif/pic thingy....

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Oh snap! lol

IPW, this needs a gif/pic thingy....

IPW is busy trainig for the Preakness...

 

[forty_three]

Here's my take on fighting in Hockey:

It is absolutely critical.

Hockey players are usually pretty well regarded as nice guys, very respectful. I once got into a long discussion about it with a hockey mom who said she couldn't figure how hockey players were so nice "despite the blind violence". I argue that fighting is why hockey players are so down to earth. I think if you spend your life playing a game where you KNOW that someone is going to beat your ass if you show disrespect, you either learn to defend yourself or you learn not to be a dick. Either way, no one wants to get punched all the time, so you also learn moderation.

And, well, if you start shit and your teammates get beaten up because of you, they will help straighten your ass out too. I remember fighting a teammate in the locker room because he kept sticking the other goalie and in turn the opposing team starting doing it to me. I told him to cut it out, and he told me to f myself. So I punched him. He didn't do it again.

Hockey is a very fast paced game with lots of passion played in a box by big men with sticks who have knives on their feet. If you took the ability to "settle things" away, it would become far more dangerous. Look at Basketball. I think we can all agree it's only slightly more dangerous than Baccarat, and anything more than a touch is called. And those guys bring GUNS into their locker room and go beat up fans. If there was no retribution, immediate retribution, for cheap shotting someone, the cheap shots would get infinitely worse and FAST.

I think you need to keep fighting in hockey. If they took it out, I'd stop watching. I don't watch because of the fights. But I don't know if I could watch what would become of the game afterward.

 

[Rossinole]

I've been saying this for years. Also,I laughed when I read "When it is a reactionary fighr between a couple of good players" and then saw an example featuring Carcillo.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Here's my take on fighting in Hockey:

It is absolutely critical.

Hockey players are usually pretty well regarded as nice guys, very respectful. I once got into a long discussion about it with a hockey mom who said she couldn't figure how hockey players were so nice "despite the blind violence". I argue that fighting is why hockey players are so down to earth. I think if you spend your life playing a game where you KNOW that someone is going to beat your ass if you show disrespect, you either learn to defend yourself or you learn not to be a dick. Either way, no one wants to get punched all the time, so you also learn moderation.

And, well, if you start shit and your teammates get beaten up because of you, they will help straighten your ass out too. I remember fighting a teammate in the locker room because he kept sticking the other goalie and in turn the opposing team starting doing it to me. I told him to cut it out, and he told me to f myself. So I punched him. He didn't do it again.

Hockey is a very fast paced game with lots of passion played in a box by big men with sticks who have knives on their feet. If you took the ability to "settle things" away, it would become far more dangerous. Look at Basketball. I think we can all agree it's only slightly more dangerous than Baccarat, and anything more than a touch is called. And those guys bring GUNS into their locker room and go beat up fans. If there was no retribution, immediate retribution, for cheap shotting someone, the cheap shots would get infinitely worse and FAST.

I think you need to keep fighting in hockey. If they took it out, I'd stop watching. I don't watch because of the fights. But I don't know if I could watch what would become of the game afterward.

Well said. Fighting keeps a level of accountability that you don't see in other sports.

What is impeding that accountability these days is the instigator rule. This has to be modified for the players to police a part of the game themselves.

Before the instigator rule the likes of Matt Cooke and Max Lapierre would be a whole lot more tame or they would have to grow their balls by an order of magnitude.

Fighting needs to stay in the game.

 

[TOX1]

I think fights affect the playoffs more than most people think. I have seen many seasons that had postseasons filled with healthy superstars because somebody was watching their ass all season long to ensure they would be A-OK during the most important time of the year...

co-signed

 

[TOX1]

That would be an unfair fight...you're not in his age class...although he does have weapons such as canes and walkers...

Lmao!!!!

Okay....you got with one this time bitch...next time it's my turn!!


(...and NO abuse of mod powers when I do too!!! Fair??)

 

[TOX1]

I hear that he actually glows in the dark...

LOL If you asked some of my subordinates...I bet some would agree with you too!!

 

[dash]

Oh snap! lol

IPW, this needs a gif/pic thingy....

I'm not in IPW's class, but best I could do...