The Official 2014 Recruiting Thread

[starbigd]

All I'm saying is.....who has put more DB's in the league since the Saban era started?

New era bro.

All I'm saying.....in that era, Texas has 2 Thorpe winners....Bama 0

Texas DBs have more pro bowls and accolades in the NFL.......you really don't have much of an argument if you're going to compare pro DBs. If all you can say is during a small window you had more drafted, that doesn't mean much. I'd be willing to bet most aren't even still in the league.

 

[Camfantasy]

How is it not objective? This is a RESULTS based argument. Texas puts more DBs in the league, who routinely outperform other top schools putting DBs in the league in terms of pro bowls, etc.......that's all fact.

Not sure why you think any of that is clouded.

Sounds to me like YOUR clouded thinking in trying to use any other data is the basis for how you feel. You can't argue that your school puts up more talent, or even better performing talent......so instead, let's say this is an invalid argument.

Thats BS, and it's lame. I understand it's opinion at a certain level, but it's backed by very SOLID data.

What a DB does after being drafted could be considered something that shouldn't be used in an argument like this at all if you look at it one way. After he leaves college, he is under a different coach's leadership and how he progresses has nothing to do with how good his coaching was in college.

Another argument that can skew data against one of these debates.
National rankings of recent pass defenses
Bama 2012 - 7 2011 - 1 2010 - 13 2009 - 10 2008 - 30
VT 2012 - 24 2011 - 31 2010 - 40 2009 - 11 2008 - 16
Texas 2012 - 36 2011 - 41 2010 - 6 2009 - 19 2008 - 105

Throw in that the likelihood that most of those players being drafted were high caliber players before they even got to said school....then that even further throws a wrench into the "our DB coaching is undeniably better" argument. All this shit is subjective and can mean 10 different things depending on how you are looking at them. When you tell me "undeniably" that tells me your rationality on the situation just isn't there and the board is probably better without your being thrown in. JMO though.

 

[rolltide14_0]

All I'm saying.....in that era, Texas has 2 Thorpe winners....Bama 0

Texas DBs have more pro bowls and accolades in the NFL.......you really don't have much of an argument if you're going to compare pro DBs. If all you can say is during a small window you had more drafted, that doesn't mean much. I'd be willing to bet most aren't even still in the league.

Why would I use a larger window when these DB's will be committing to play for Nick Saban? Why would I use anything from before he got here?

You want to take everything Texas did before Saban got here and compare to what has happened in the Saban era, then that's fine. I think it's more fair my way.

We takin this shit over dawg.

 

[bamabear82]

What a DB does after being drafted could be considered something that shouldn't be used in an argument like this at all if you look at it one way. After he leaves college, he is under a different coach's leadership and how he progresses has nothing to do with how good his coaching was in college.

Another argument that can skew data against one of these debates.
National rankings of recent pass defenses
Bama 2012 - 7 2011 - 1 2010 - 13 2009 - 10 2008 - 30
VT 2012 - 24 2011 - 31 2010 - 40 2009 - 11 2008 - 16
Texas 2012 - 36 2011 - 41 2010 - 6 2009 - 19 2008 - 105

Throw in that the likelihood that most of those players being drafted were high caliber players before they even got to said school....then that even further throws a wrench into the "our DB coaching is undeniably better" argument. All this shit is subjective and can mean 10 different things depending on how you are looking at them. When you tell me "undeniably" that tells me your rationality on the situation just isn't there and the board is probably better without your being thrown in. JMO though.

But but but.... we Texas.

 

[starbigd]

What a DB does after being drafted could be considered something that shouldn't be used in an argument like this at all if you look at it one way. After he leaves college, he is under a different coach's leadership and how he progresses has nothing to do with how good his coaching was in college.

Another argument that can skew data against one of these debates.
National rankings of recent pass defenses
Bama 2012 - 7 2011 - 1 2010 - 13 2009 - 10 2008 - 30
VT 2012 - 24 2011 - 31 2010 - 40 2009 - 11 2008 - 16
Texas 2012 - 36 2011 - 41 2010 - 6 2009 - 19 2008 - 105

Throw in that the likelihood that most of those players being drafted were high caliber players before they even got to said school....then that even further throws a wrench into the "our DB coaching is undeniably better" argument. All this shit is subjective and can mean 10 different things depending on how you are looking at them. When you tell me "undeniably" that tells me your rationality on the situation just isn't there and the board is probably better without your being thrown in. JMO though.

Ah but see that's skewed as well.

There is no denying that Texas faces more pass happy offenses, and thus, will have a lower rank nearly by default. WHAT great passing offense/QB does Bama face on a recurring basis? How about VT? Texas faces Baylor, Tech, OSU, OU who all sling the rock all over the field.

The "they're top rated players to begin with" is also flawed. Huff (Thorpe winner) and Ross (Thorpe winner) were both 3 stars that got coached up. Hell Ross was expected to be a nickleback and worked his way into the starting rotation where all he did was make plays.

Next?

 

[Camfantasy]

Ah but see that's skewed as well.

There is no denying that Texas faces more pass happy offenses, and thus, will have a lower rank nearly by default. WHAT great passing offense/QB does Bama face on a recurring basis? How about VT? Texas faces Baylor, Tech, OSU, OU who all sling the rock all over the field.

The "they're top rated players to begin with" is also flawed. Huff (Thorpe winner) and Ross (Thorpe winner) were both 3 stars that got coached up. Hell Ross was expected to be a nickleback and worked his way into the starting rotation where all he did was make plays.

Next?

And is exactly my point that you still seem to be missing. None of this shit is "undeniable" because it is subjective and there are 1,000 different ways of looking at it and gathering facts to prove your view point. The bad thing is that every fact you find to support your argument here, you will find one to oppose it. Your biased point of view is skewing reality and is leading to an unfounded arrogance. They are all great schools for a DB (along with some others as well) but none are "the best."

 

[rolltide14_0]

Ah but see that's skewed as well.

There is no denying that Texas faces more pass happy offenses, and thus, will have a lower rank nearly by default. WHAT great passing offense/QB does Bama face on a recurring basis? How about VT? Texas faces Baylor, Tech, OSU, OU who all sling the rock all over the field.

The "they're top rated players to begin with" is also flawed. Huff (Thorpe winner) and Ross (Thorpe winner) were both 3 stars that got coached up. Hell Ross was expected to be a nickleback and worked his way into the starting rotation where all he did was make plays.

Next?

Since the Texas DB's are in a pass happy league, they get more action, that's why their numbers are better, thus the awards. Just my opinion.

 

[bamabear82]

Recruit claims Meyer nearly cried

 

[rolltide14_0]

Recruit claims Meyer nearly cried

While I highly doubt that actually happened, it paints a great image.

Hell, who knows, it may have happened. Meyer IS a pus after all.

 

[starbigd]

Since the Texas DB's are in a pass happy league, they get more action, that's why their numbers are better, thus the awards. Just my opinion.

LOL get real.

If one DB faces 1 pass per game, and actually stops it, he has 100% rate of success.

If a DB faces 20 passes per game, he's going to MAYBE stop 5.....and we're talking the best in the nation.

As attempts go up, numbers go DOWN. Even you know that, let's not be willfully ignorant here.

 

[rolltide14_0]

LOL get real.

If one DB faces 1 pass per game, and actually stops it, he has 100% rate of success.

If a DB faces 20 passes per game, he's going to MAYBE stop 5.....and we're talking the best in the nation.

As attempts go up, numbers go DOWN. Even you know that, let's not be willfully ignorant here.

Do they go by your percentage of pass break ups, or just how many pass break ups you have?

Because if a guy gets thrown at 20 times and stops 10 of them, but another guy gets thrown at 10 times and stops 6 of them, the first guy still has 4 more pass break ups on the season. So how do they determine that?

Also, the more attempts you have, the more picks you are likely to get.

 

[starbigd]

Do they go by your percentage of pass break ups, or just how many pass break ups you have?

Because if a guy gets thrown at 20 times and stops 10 of them, but another guy gets thrown at 10 times and stops 6 of them, the first guy still has 4 more pass break ups on the season. So how do they determine that?

Also, the more attempts you have, the more picks you are likely to get.

Yes, the more picks you can get.....as well as passes completed against you. When ranking DBs, most services look at percentages of passes defensed, not the total number defensed. The only pure number looked at is INTs.

The more you are thrown at, the more you are exposed as a DB. Simply put, crappy DBs can hide their lack of skills if they aren't challenged very often, or play a ton of zone.

 

[rolltide14_0]

Just heard some interesting comments from De'Shawn Hand in an interview from the Rivals 5-star challenge.

Mike Farrell ask.."VT and Mich are your top 2 true or false?"
Hand's response.."False"

When pressed, he refused to reveal who was in there.

That surprised me, but since I believe VT has a permanent place in there, that likely means Michigan is not in his top two like a lot of us thought.

With him listing Alabama as one of his 3 other top schools, I'm still holding out hope that we're in that top 2 instead of Michigan, but I doubt it.

 

[4down20]

Just heard some interesting comments from De'Shawn Hand in an interview from the Rivals 5-star challenge.

Mike Farrell ask.."VT and Mich are your top 2 true or false?"
Hand's response.."False"

When pressed, he refused to reveal who was in there.

That surprised me, but since I believe VT has a permanent place in there, that likely means Michigan is not in his top two like a lot of us thought.

With him listing Alabama as one of his 3 other top schools, I'm still holding out hope that we're in that top 2 instead of Michigan, but I doubt it.

He's going to Alabama IMO.

Nation's top recruit Da'Shawn Hand gives thoughts on Alabama, Auburn | al.com

Hand told 247Sports that each school in his top five has its own unique appeal to him.



"All have their little pieces," Hand said. "At Auburn, I went to a construction site. At South Carolina, it was the linemen, at Michigan it was the sports marketing and at Alabama, it was Alabama. It's Alabama."

 

[rolltide14_0]

He's going to Alabama IMO.

Nation's top recruit Da'Shawn Hand gives thoughts on Alabama, Auburn | al.com

I personally wouldn't predict it, but that would be awesome. He is going to be a very special player and it would be huge to get him on this d-line. However, I'll have him pegged as a VT lock until he signs that letter of intent somewhere else.

 

[Camfantasy]

Just heard some interesting comments from De'Shawn Hand in an interview from the Rivals 5-star challenge.

Mike Farrell ask.."VT and Mich are your top 2 true or false?"
Hand's response.."False"

When pressed, he refused to reveal who was in there.

That surprised me, but since I believe VT has a permanent place in there, that likely means Michigan is not in his top two like a lot of us thought.

With him listing Alabama as one of his 3 other top schools, I'm still holding out hope that we're in that top 2 instead of Michigan, but I doubt it.

He has never admitted to favorites publically in an interview, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have favorites. I trust the people around him who are saying who his favorites right now are.....and that is VT and Michigan. I know I am a VT fan, but that is 100% looking at things through as neutral of a perspective as I can.

He's going to Alabama IMO.

Nation's top recruit Da'Shawn Hand gives thoughts on Alabama, Auburn | al.com

LOL....if you knew as much about football as you claim to know (or anything about Da'shawn Hand)then you would realize a glaring "which one is different" aspect in regards to those other schools and Alabama that can only be construed as a negative for them.

 

[4down20]

LOL....if you knew as much about football as you claim to know (or anything about Da'shawn Hand)then you would realize a glaring "which one is different" aspect in regards to those other schools and Alabama that can only be construed as a negative for them.

How much do I claim to know?

 

[Camfantasy]

How much do I claim to know?

A pretty good bit from what I can gather.

 

[TigerBait1971]

We gonna be stacked bitches!

 

[rolltide14_0]

He has never admitted to favorites publically in an interview, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have favorites. I trust the people around him who are saying who his favorites right now are.....and that is VT and Michigan. I know I am a VT fan, but that is 100% looking at things through as neutral of a perspective as I can.



LOL....if you knew as much about football as you claim to know (or anything about Da'shawn Hand)then you would realize a glaring "which one is different" aspect in regards to those other schools and Alabama that can only be construed as a negative for them.

I'm assuming you're talking about the 3-4 vs 4-3 thing, and I agree you'd be right. But we can still hope that a guy like Hand can look back and see the success that Marcell Dareus had as an end for us, and see guys like Cameron Heyward, Muhammed Wilkerson, J.J. Watt, and know that he can be a monster in our defense just like anywhere else.

Like I've said before, I'm with you that he is headed to VT, but I'm hoping we have a chance, and if he doesn't pick VT, I'm hoping it will be us. We can hope right..