The NBA rookies Thread

[Mecca]

@bksballer89

We better grab him like we did Kyrie.

Benjamin David Simmons (born 20 July 1996) is an Australian professional basketball player for the Philadelphia 76ers of the National Basketball Association (NBA). ... A dual citizen with theUnited States, Simmons has played for the Australian national team.

 

[Mecca]

Yeah they're going to be hell for us in 2020. Likely our top competition assuming he plays for them

I think it could be the Serbian team.

 

[trojanfan12]

Assuming Ball doesn't play again, he finishes the year with 30 missed games from minor injuries.

Yeah, the Lakers have pretty much openly admitted that he and Ingram wouldn't have missed near as many games as they have if they were in the playoff hunt.

No reason to risk aggravating something or having them develop a bad habit because they're favoring some injury.

Not sure I agree with it, but I don't get a vote. lol

 

[trojanfan12]

You’re missing whoever the Kings land this year in the draft. Also, no respect for process-survivor JaKarr Sampson.

If the last playoff spot comes down to De’Aaron Fox or Lonzo Ball, I’m betting on Fox.

lol @calling them a playoff team based on a player who isn't even with the team yet.

And for the record, if not for being overly cautious with Lonzo and Ingram (and if they could shoot some fucking free throws), it's likely they'd have been in the playoff hunt this year.

 

[trojanfan12]

I agree with this. Unless you're out with a season ending surgery. Simmons was basically a red shirt rookie. Was practicing and everything. Solid point

Yeah, they were talking about that on a sports talk show I was listening to on the way home. The guy being interviewed, I forget who it was, was calling him "Newcomer of the Year." lol

 

[trojanfan12]

you must have missed who i am, then. fuck that noise.

Pretty sure we all have.

 

[flyerhawk]

I agree with this. Unless you're out with a season ending surgery. Simmons was basically a red shirt rookie. Was practicing and everything. Solid point

This makes absolutely no sense.

Kyle Kuzma played 3 years at Utah. Does that make him not a rookie? Or does shooting around and listening to pro coaches rather than college coaches trump actually playing games in college? Did Mitchell learn less playing for Rick Pitino for 2 years than Simmons did watching Sixers games?

If the argument was that only one and dones qualify for RoY then perhaps I would agree. But I doubt many people would agree with that.

FTR, I don't believe that Simmons ever did more than shoot around practices with the Sixers last year.

 

[bksballer89]

Kyle Kuzma played 3 years at Utah. Does that make him not a rookie? Or does shooting around and listening to pro coaches rather than college coaches trump actually playing games in college? Did Mitchell learn less playing for Rick Pitino for 2 years than Simmons did watching Sixers games?

Kuzma had a whole season that I don't know on an NBA roster practicing with NBA players while not playing a single game?

Practicing with actual NBA players>playing with college players where 95% of those guys will never make the league

 

[bksballer89]

I know this is pretty shocking to some of you but NBA players are actually better than college players

 

[bksballer89]

For example, in his 2 years at Louisville, Mitchell only played with one other player currently on an NBA roster

 

[flyerhawk]

Kuzma had a whole season that I don't know on an NBA roster practicing with NBA players while not playing a single game?

Practicing with actual NBA players>playing with college players where 95% of those guys will never make the league

Playing competitive games in college is better than doing shoot arounds with pros. I can't even believe that people would argue otherwise.

Players that play multiple college seasons tend to do better as rookies than one and dones. This is a fairly obvious point.

Are there many examples of players missing their rookie season and then playing really well their 2nd?

I think this is an argument designed to fit a unique circumstance.

 

[flyerhawk]

I know this is pretty shocking to some of you but NBA players are actually better than college players

But that isn't the argument. We aren't talking about playing games against pros. We are talking about practicing.

 

[trojanfan12]

Kuzma had a whole season that I don't know on an NBA roster practicing with NBA players while not playing a single game?

Practicing with actual NBA players>playing with college players where 95% of those guys will never make the league

I agree. I'm not saying that anything necessarily needs to be changed. So far, there just aren't enough guys who "redshirt" to even bother thinking about it. I also don't think a guy should be disqualified because he had that "redshirt" year.

But that is an entire season of concentrating on nothing but preparing to be an NBA player with actual NBA players, coaches, trainers, etc., etc.

In college, they get quality coaching, etc. but all of that has to be balanced around classes and the fact that there are limits to how much they can practice, play, etc. with their coaches there.

I would also add that the "redshirt" guy isn't learning a new system and teammates like the guy coming straight from college.

There is a clear advantage for the guys who get to essentially "redshirt" in the NBA and still qualify for RoY honors.

 

[trojanfan12]

I know this is pretty shocking to some of you but NBA players are actually better than college players

#fakenews.

 

[trojanfan12]

Playing competitive games in college is better than doing shoot arounds with pros. I can't even believe that people would argue otherwise.

If shootarounds is all it was, you would have a point. He was actually practicing with them and competing with them in those practices.

Here's a comparison for you, I'll use Kuzma (since you mentioned him) and Simmons:

Simmons spent last year being coached by NBA coaches and playing with NBA players on the team he was going to be playing for. He also had access to NBA trainers, meals, etc. He had this 24/7 with no distractions. He was also was learning the Sixers system and how his teammates played. So he started this season already knowing the Sixers system and being familiar with his teammates.

Kuzma spent that time being coached by college coaches with the limits that the NCAA places on when and how long that can happen, playing against college players (the vast majority of whom won't even play professionally overseas, let alone the NBA), having access to college trainers and meals (which aren't bad, but not NBA quality) and going to class so he could stay eligible for all of that. Then he came to the NBA where he had to learn a new system and teammates.

I'm not saying Simmons shouldn't qualify, or that he doesn't deserve the award over Kuzma or anyone else. But let's not pretend there isn't an advantage for Simmons.

 

[flyerhawk]

If shootarounds is all it was, you would have a point. He was actually practicing with them and competing with them in those practices.

Simmons got hurt in the first preseason match, IIRC. He was completely out of training until sometime around January. I don't believe he was ever brought back to full practice.

I'm not saying Simmons shouldn't qualify, or that he doesn't deserve the award over Kuzma or anyone else. But let's not pretend there isn't an advantage for Simmons.

I've never heard anyone make this argument before until Simmons because his situation was somewhat unique. But Simmons wasn't Fultz, who had a short term physical injury that kept him out of playing for months. Simmons broke a bone which took a few months to heal and by the time he was ready to come back the Sixers were in tank mode.

If Simmons were truly red shirted and was practicing every day with the team maybe I would sort of get this argument. But suggesting that being with the team is inherently superior to actually playing seems dubious to me.

 

[trojanfan12]

Players that play multiple college seasons tend to do better as rookies than one and dones. This is a fairly obvious point.

Because those players are older and more physically mature. looking at the Lakers with Lonzo and Kuzma. Kuzma has had the better rookie year because he's older, more physically mature and has more experience, but Lonzo clearly has a good bit more upside than Kuzma. That's why he was the #2 pick and Kuzma the #27 pick.

Are there many examples of players missing their rookie season and then playing really well their 2nd?

Not many, if any, other than Simmons. Redshirting is a pretty new thing in the NBA.

I think this is an argument designed to fit a unique circumstance.

Which is why there is no need to change anything. But being a unique circumstance doesn't mean there isn't an advantage for the guy who "redshirts."

 

[knowyourenemy]

Simmons got hurt in the first preseason match, IIRC. He was completely out of training until sometime around January. I don't believe he was ever brought back to full practice.



I've never heard anyone make this argument before until Simmons because his situation was somewhat unique. But Simmons wasn't Fultz, who had a short term physical injury that kept him out of playing for months. Simmons broke a bone which took a few months to heal and by the time he was ready to come back the Sixers were in tank mode.

If Simmons were truly red shirted and was practicing every day with the team maybe I would sort of get this argument. But suggesting that being with the team is inherently superior to actually playing seems dubious to me.

Not an identical situation but Blake Griffin missed his first year due to injury. Came back the next year, had a great year, and won ROY over John Wall. In fact, Griffin was a unanimous winner so nobody officially protested his extra year in the NBA.

 

[trojanfan12]

I've never heard anyone make this argument before until Simmons because his situation was somewhat unique. But Simmons wasn't Fultz, who had a short term physical injury that kept him out of playing for months. Simmons broke a bone which took a few months to heal and by the time he was ready to come back the Sixers were in tank mode.

If Simmons were truly red shirted and was practicing every day with the team maybe I would sort of get this argument. But suggesting that being with the team is inherently superior to actually playing seems dubious to me.

You haven't heard that because, as you said yourself, it's a unique situation.

Look, I get that you love Simmons, he looks to be a special player and that you want his accomplishments to be completely "clean" (for lack of a better word), but let's not pretend that there isn't an advantage to him sitting out last year.

Even if he didn't truly start practicing with the team until January, that's still more practice with NBA coaches, his teammates, etc. than Kuzma got.

And yes, being with the team is inherently superior because, at the very least, he is learning their system and how his teammates play. That alone is a nice advantage that helps him to hit the ground running, so to speak, when he did start playing with them.

 

[flyerhawk]

Not an identical situation but Blake Griffin missed his first year due to injury. Came back the next year, had a great year, and won ROY over John Wall. In fact, Griffin was a unanimous winner so nobody officially protested his extra year in the NBA.

That's the problem really. Griffin was injured and there wasn't much chance of return.

Simmons was injured and likely could have returned but the team decided to shelve him instead. It had the same practical effect but people assume that Simmons was actually getting more practice time because he wasn't completely injured still.

The fact that people tend to call his situation red shirting isn't terribly helpful either because it implies that they simply sat him to skip the season which isn't accurate.