The NBA rookies Thread

[knowyourenemy]

Name another rookie with a similar stat line in the last, say 10 years, within the first two games.

I can't think of a bigger waste of time than looking to see what rookies had good 1st/2nd games.

But I wasted my time anyway:

Michael Carter-Williams

22 points, seven rebounds, 12 assists, nine steals

 

[larryjohn]

I can't think of a bigger waste of time than looking to see what rookies had good 1st/2nd games.

What ? That's no fun.

Ben Simmons is the first rookie since Oscar Robertson to have a stat line of 10-5-5 for his first two games.

I thought Lonzo would have a good rookie season -- one of top 3 in ROY voting.

But after the first game, I thought he could shoot and was flustered. (potential bust)
But after the 2nd game, I thought he'd be a quick star -- definitely ROY.
After 3rd game, he has major shooting issues.
...

 

[tlance]

I'm not sure how to reconcile your commentary that Fultz's performance is "far more alarming . . . than Ball, Monk, or any other rookie" with your last paragraph. It's alarming in the short term, I suppose. I'm not sure why any of it would be alarming long term.

How could it not be alarming in the long term? If he can't shoot, he will bust. He is supposed to be a highly skilled player. Not a guy like Josh Jackson who was drafted because of freakish athleticism.

Good shooters don't look like that on the FT line. Ever.

 

[knowyourenemy]

How could it not be alarming in the long term? If he can't shoot, he will bust. He is supposed to be a highly skilled player. Not a guy like Josh Jackson who was drafted because of freakish athleticism.

Good shooters don't look like that on the FT line. Ever.

If it's because of a shoulder injury, the shooting issues are not alarming long term.
If it's because he is in the middle of tweaking his shot, the shooting issues are also not alarming long term.

I'm just not concerned as of right now. His confidence is a bigger concern to me than his shooting form, though I think his lack of confidence stems from his poor shooting numbers.

 

[tlance]

If it's because of a shoulder injury, the shooting issues are not alarming long term.
If it's because he is in the middle of tweaking his shot, the shooting issues are also not alarming long term.

I'm just not concerned as of right now. His confidence is a bigger concern to me than his shooting form, though I think his lack of confidence stems from his poor shooting numbers.

If he is tweaking his shooting motion, the question would be why? If he is tweaking his shooting motion, the coach working with him needs to get fired because the form looks awful. Good shooters, as Fultz was reported to be don't tweak their form this close to the season. Also, that ain't a tweak.

If he is injured, there probably isn't much reason to be concerned long term. But, you never know. Depends on the injury and the long term impact early struggles might have on his confidence long term.

 

[knowyourenemy]

If he is tweaking his shooting motion, the question would be why? If he is tweaking his shooting motion, the coach working with him needs to get fired because the form looks awful. Good shooters, as Fultz was reported to be don't tweak their form this close to the season. Also, that ain't a tweak.

If he is injured, there probably isn't much reason to be concerned long term. But, you never know. Depends on the injury and the long term impact early struggles might have on his confidence long term.

Yeah, I don't know what's going on exactly. He looks good when he's not thinking about stuff and he's just out there reacting. I think he'll be ok.

 

[tlance]

Yeah, I don't know what's going on exactly. He looks good when he's not thinking about stuff and he's just out there reacting. I think he'll be ok.

I hope he is,

Just saying that I think there are very legitimate reasons to be concerned about Fultz. Any other rookie, it isn't worth the time. Too soon. I would be saying the same about Fultz too if the issue wasn't directly related to a skill that was supposed to be a strength. And we aren't talking about missed jumpers either. I would not worry about that.

 

[knowyourenemy]

What ? That's no fun.

Ben Simmons is the first rookie since Oscar Robertson to have a stat line of 10-5-5 for his first two games.

I thought Lonzo would have a good rookie season -- one of top 3 in ROY voting.

But after the first game, I thought he could shoot and was flustered. (potential bust)
But after the 2nd game, I thought he'd be a quick star -- definitely ROY.
After 3rd game, he has major shooting issues.
...

Since you asked (although, you didn't really ask), I looked up some other guys. There are a decent number of marginal point guards that have had solid games within their 1st two games.

Mario Chalmers (17 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists, .538 FG%)

Norris Cole (20 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals, .500 FG%)

Brandon Jennings (17 points, 9 rebounds, 9 assists, .438 FG% in 1st game & 24 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, .600 FG% in 2nd game)

Deron Williams (18 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, .500 FG%)

O.J. Mayo (17 points, 6 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, .455 FG%)

Rudy Fernandez (16 points, 2 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, .500 FG%)

Jonny Flynn (18 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, .385 FG% in 1st game & 17 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, .600 FG% in 2nd game)

Tyreke Evans (22 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, .538 FG%)

Evan Turner (16 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, .700 FG%)

Iman Shumpert (18 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, .600 FG%)

Dennis Smith Jr. (16 points, 3 rebounds, 10 assists, .500 FG%)

The best I can discern from that is that having a good game in your first couple games as a rookie is pretty much completely irrelevant to how your career will turn out.

Sure, none of those guys put up similar numbers to Lonzo (although I'd say MCW's game was just as good, if not better, than Lonzo's 2nd game) but many of them went on to be forgettable NBA players over the course of their career.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Since you asked (although, you didn't really ask), I looked up some other guys. There are a decent number of marginal point guards that have had solid games within their 1st two games.

Mario Chalmers (17 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists, .538 FG%)

Norris Cole (20 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals, .500 FG%)

Brandon Jennings (17 points, 9 rebounds, 9 assists, .438 FG% in 1st game & 24 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, .600 FG% in 2nd game)

Deron Williams (18 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, .500 FG%)

O.J. Mayo (17 points, 6 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, .455 FG%)

Rudy Fernandez (16 points, 2 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, .500 FG%)

Jonny Flynn (18 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, .385 FG% in 1st game & 17 points, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, .600 FG% in 2nd game)

Tyreke Evans (22 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, .538 FG%)

Evan Turner (16 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block, .700 FG%)

Iman Shumpert (18 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, .600 FG%)

Dennis Smith Jr. (16 points, 3 rebounds, 10 assists, .500 FG%)

The best I can discern from that is that having a good game in your first couple games as a rookie is pretty much completely irrelevant to how your career will turn out.

Sure, none of those guys put up similar numbers to Lonzo (although I'd say MCW's game was just as good, if not better, than Lonzo's 2nd game) but many of them went on to be forgettable NBA players over the course of their career.

But I wasted my time anyway:

Michael Carter-Williams

22 points, seven rebounds, 12 assists, nine steals

Dame first game and they won.

23 points, three rebounds, 11 assists, one steal

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

The Best NBA Rookie Debuts Since 2000

 

[knowyourenemy]

Dame first game and they won.

23 points, three rebounds, 11 assists, one steal

Go away, Mecca. I intentionally excluded him because he didn’t fit into my narrative.

 

[DJ Fieri]

3 games in Ball is averaging:

13.3ppg, 9.3rpg, and 8.7apg

 

[bksballer89]

3 games in Ball is averaging:

13.3ppg, 9.3rpg, and 8.7apg

34% shooting & 3.7 TO per game

 

[tlance]

34% shooting & 3.7 TO per game

Yeah, not very good.

Most rookies struggle with FG% and TOs though. Ball will likely always struggle somewhat in those cats.

If he listens to his dad and shoots 20 times a game, that could be a problem.

 

[DJ Fieri]

34% shooting & 3.7 TO per game

Nobody was claiming he was a finished product offensively and his assist to TO ratio is a little over 2 to 1. Not great for a veteran but a rookie 2 years out of HS? Not bad at all.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Rookie averaging close to a trip-doub and the haters are trying to find faults.....

Hilarious.

 

[bksballer89]

Rookie averaging close to a trip-doub and the haters are trying to find faults.....

Hilarious.

Im a hater because i added additional statistics? Shooting% and turnovers are pretty common stats to show when player x plays PG. Im sure Ball will get better at both. Found it odd that you excluded those.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Rookie averaging close to a trip-doub and the haters are trying to find faults.....

Hilarious.

Uh, what he posted was factual.

Ball looks good.

But, you can't get upset when other's post his unflattering stats.

Pretty sure the same was done re Fultz.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Uh, what he posted was factual.

Ball looks good.

But, you can't get upset when other's post his unflattering stats.

Pretty sure the same was done re Fultz.

Nobody is "upset".....it's amusing to me actually. That's why I typed it's hilarious.

Put him on that person's team and they wouldn't be saying anything.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Ball is averaging fewer TO"s than

Westbrook, 5.3 per game.
Wall, 5 per game.
Russell, 4.7.
Rubio, 4.3.
Walker, 4 per game.

I could keep going but I won't.