The Media Distorts Notre Dame/Michigan

[Voltaire26]

I’ll explain this for non-ND fans. We have 1 rival (USC), one friend (Navy) and one enemy (Michigan).

it’s not a great rivalry because they’ve played so much. It’s because they hate each other. In fact it was that hatred that caused so many gaps in playing over the years to begin with.

Before Norte Dame was made to vacate wins we were 1 and 2 in all time wins and winning %. I still don't know why they vacated the wins. They probably didn't finish the Rosary to the satisfaction of the NCAA. Playing Notre Dame has always been special for Michigan. Although most of our hate is consumed by ohio state.

 

[craigk217]

I would say based on our scheduling philosophy it isn't the main priority. I guess you could make a case that the rivalry could be 3rd. But IMO, I'd go with Michigan State from a historical perspective or Stanford from a philosophical perspective. I don't think anyone would question that USC and Navy are 1/2 in some order. After that it gets tricky. I will say I find Michigan to be more annoying than Stanford or Michigan State, but that's mostly due to Mike Hart and Brady Hoke.

They may have not, historically, played as many games as those others, but there's an all-time winning/college football blue blood thing going on btwn these two schools.

If you live around here, you'd rank Michigan near the top right after USC.

They are an enemy of Irish Nation.

 

[ericd7633]

They may have not, historically, played as many games as those others, but there's an all-time winning/college football blue blood thing going on btwn these two schools.

If you live around here, you'd rank Michigan near the top right after USC.

They are an enemy of Irish Nation.

Oh yeah for sure, I get the notion of the all-time winningest program thing, and do think that's important.

And no doubt, I dislike them more than anyone ND plays on a regular basis, but I would dislike them even if ND didn't play them, much like my feelings for Ohio State.

 

[jjc2009]

Before Norte Dame was made to vacate wins we were 1 and 2 in all time wins and winning %. I still don't know why they vacated the wins. They probably didn't finish the Rosary to the satisfaction of the NCAA. Playing Notre Dame has always been special for Michigan. Although most of our hate is consumed by ohio state.

Some players cheated on some tests, got help they weren’t supposed to get. The university self-reported and the univ. president voluntarily agreed to vacate them.

 

[Rolltide94]

Still a bigger rival than Michigan State though.

The fact that you don't think it's a rivalry is probably why your 3 for the last 10.

 

[PIBuckeye]

"A RIVALRY THAT GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO 1887" they say.

FACTS

They've played just 40 times total since 1887.
That's just 40 times in 132 years.
92 of the 132 years they didn't even play.
They played just 6 times between 1887 and 1941. 6 times in 54 years.
They played just 2 times between 1942 and 1977. Twice in 35 years.

Good series yes, but stop trying to pass it off like they've played damn near every year.

To put that into perspective, Nebraska and Kansas have played 109 times since 1900.

They try to pass it off like it's Michigan/Ohio St who've played 115 times since 1897.

When it comes to long time series, I doubt Notre Dame/Michigan even ranks in the Top 50.

It's just the media trying to hype up the game. It is still a good matchup.

Even more rare is OSU vs. ND......... I can't believe they've only played 6 times ever. strange.

 

[PIBuckeye]

I’ll explain this for non-ND fans. We have 1 rival (USC), one friend (Navy) and one enemy (Michigan).

it’s not a great rivalry because they’ve played so much. It’s because they hate each other. In fact it was that hatred that caused so many gaps in playing over the years to begin with.

Really? didn't know that, what is the origin of this hate between the programs?

 

[jjc2009]

Really? didn't know that, what is the origin of this hate between the programs?

Fielding Yost mostly.

Michigan “taught” Notre Dame the sport when it was introduced to ND in 1887. For Michigan, they were essentially padding their schedule because ND was new to the sport and didn’t have a fully developed program. All that changed when Rockne became coach. Michigan won like the first dozen or so meetings between the schools. But ND won and suddenly they became a liability to Michigan’s schedule. So Fielding Yost canceled the next meeting while ND was en route to Ann Arbor. They didn’t know the game was off until they arrived. Yost refused too play them again and, since he wielded so much power in what was then the Western Conference (Big -10) hr convinced the other schools to blackball ND’s membership and bullied them not to schedule ND.

In a way this built ND’s national brand because it forced ND to travel to the east coast (and the NY media) and west coast (USC). During this time Rockne and Yost Hayes each other. They often accused each other of cheating in other sports like track, which they both also coached. Yost also showed catholic bias and mocked Rockne’s conversion to Catholicism.

they wouldn’t play again until Fritz Crisler and Moose Krause (disciples of Yost and Rockne, respectively) agreed to play again. After only two meetings where they split the series they canceled again until 1978 when the series more or less became a regular feature until 2014.

 

[Voltaire26]

The fact that you don't think it's a rivalry is probably why your 3 for the last 10.

I think it may be due to the fact that Michigan State outscored us in 8 out of the last 11 games. Just saying ...

 

[PIBuckeye]

Fielding Yost mostly.

Michigan “taught” Notre Dame the sport when it was introduced to ND in 1887. For Michigan, they were essentially padding their schedule because ND was new to the sport and didn’t have a fully developed program. All that changed when Rockne became coach. Michigan won like the first dozen or so meetings between the schools. But ND won and suddenly they became a liability to Michigan’s schedule. So Fielding Yost canceled the next meeting while ND was en route to Ann Arbor. They didn’t know the game was off until they arrived. Yost refused too play them again and, since he wielded so much power in what was then the Western Conference (Big -10) hr convinced the other schools to blackball ND’s membership and bullied them not to schedule ND.

In a way this built ND’s national brand because it forced ND to travel to the east coast (and the NY media) and west coast (USC). During this time Rockne and Yost Hayes each other. They often accused each other of cheating in other sports like track, which they both also coached. Yost also showed catholic bias and mocked Rockne’s conversion to Catholicism.

they wouldn’t play again until Fritz Crisler and Moose Krause (disciples of Yost and Rockne, respectively) agreed to play again. After only two meetings where they split the series they canceled again until 1978 when the series more or less became a regular feature until 2014.

great story. Like hearing about historic backgrounds of programs like this.......

so, to this day, is this part of the reason ND has been stubborn about joining the B1G? a 100 + year old grudge due to what Yost did............. (and wow. what an A hole he was............)

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Well, they've played 33 times during my lifetime, so in the modern era, that's a decent number.

Or, let's call it the TV era.

 

[Hitman Hart]

Well, they've played 33 times during my lifetime, so in the modern era, that's a decent number.

Or, let's call it the TV era.

yeah, but you're a grandpa

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

yeah, but you're a grandpa

Hardly! My kids are still teens.. just because Loretta Lynn was a grandma at 35 doesn't mean I have to be.

I mean a grandpa.

Shit.

Lemme start over:

Kiss my ass, jerk!!1!

 

[jjc2009]

great story. Like hearing about historic backgrounds of programs like this.......

so, to this day, is this part of the reason ND has been stubborn about joining the B1G? a 100 + year old grudge due to what Yost did............. (and wow. what an A hole he was............)

That’s part of it. I mean they built their brand so that they’re more than a regional program so conference affiliation doesn’t mean as much to them for recruiting.

But if I’m being 100% honest here, some of it falls on ND. Given their catholic foundation they gave dis-associated from some of the Big 10 universities that are into research that the church doesn’t support. Or so I’ve been told.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

It is the "Mandela Effect" of Rivalries

Mark May expressed fond childhood memories of games that did not exist on national TV.

 

[podsox]

It’s been my favorite rivalry as a Nd fan. They had a ton of crazy gms when I was growing up while Pete carrol was beating the shit out of notre dame every yr

 

[Hitman Hart]

Hardly! My kids are still teens.. just because Loretta Lynn was a grandma at 35 doesn't mean I have to be.

I mean a grandpa.

Shit.

Lemme start over:

Kiss my ass, jerk!!1!

great classic show from your childhood, hu

 

[jjc2009]

There was an interesting discussion on another ND board about who they’re more vitriolic against, USC or Michigan and the results were more or less generational. Slightly older fans viewed USC with more disdain than Michigan whereas younger fans have less vitriol for USC than Michigan.

Easy to see why. In the 60’s and 70’s Michigan wasn’t even a foe whereas USC a behemoth especially in McKay’s tenure. ND had a lot less success during that stretch.

but if you came of age in the 80’s like me ND had near total dominance over USC whereas Michigan was the nemesis. I got used to beating USC whereas the Mich games were always nail biters.

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

According to … ?

your mom

Spoiler

 

[craigk217]

your mom

Spoiler