The Master Vent Thread-Negativity Within-Enter at Your Own Risk

[Vitamike]

I'll give you that Vita, there are some GREAT QB's that have been drafted #1 overall I won't deny that! But what we are seeing in today's game is quite a few QB's that didn't go #1 and they will be HOF QB's in the end, Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, Warner, possibly Brees, and a few others I'm not thinking of.

If you want to be real, do you think Bradshaw and Plunkett are anything in today's game? Im just curious. I liked Brdshaw, but he had a hell of a defense, running game, and Swann and Stalworth weren't to shabby. Both he and Plunkett could throw the bomb, but overall they really weren't that great as QB's, do you think?

But the bottom line is, they were winners! I think they fit their teams, but it wasn't necessarily them that got them to the Super Bowl?

So....

Just to be clear, you are conceding your 'fact'....

 

[Vitamike]

He is one of only a hand full of players that changed the game. That's why he is in the Hall. Not because of stats.

Didn't want to include Joe to make the argument but included him for a reason.

Thanks Ozarks!

 

[Smed55]

He is one of only a hand full of players that changed the game. That's why he is in the Hall. Not because of stats.

I agree the New York Jets should have maybe a special place in the HOF for being the first AFL team to win the Super Bowl. But Nanath was pretty much not very good throughout his career. His biggest feat was guaranteeing a Super Bowl win. I remember alot of guys( and no Vita, I can't remember exactly who) guarantee wins, a lot of them end up being wrong too! Just so happens he was right along with some others!

I hated it when the Rams picked him up. I don't know how many of you remember the stretch the Rams went through for awhile picking up old over the hill QB's, Namath, Hadl Bartkowski, Pastorini, am I missing any?

I guess we can be thankful we aren't going that route now!

 

[Smed55]

This has nothing to do with the the 'facts' you contend.

Still waiting on 'your facts' link.

Remember, you said they were facts, I expect you should be able to provide a link rather than an excuse.

Any luck with that yet?

I certainly provided you with a list that countered your contentions of fact.

Actually your list does not counter my contentions of fact, in fact it backs it up, 8-17 of those guys made it to the Super Bowl.

I've told you I have no idea how to put that list here, but hey your list will do, 8-17 I still don't see how Namath would help my case,other than the fact he's not very good, it helped your argument in that it gave you one more SB QB that you could throw in there

 

[ozarkram]

I agree the New York Jets should have maybe a special place in the HOF for being the first AFL team to win the Super Bowl. But Nanath was pretty much not very good throughout his career. His biggest feat was guaranteeing a Super Bowl win. I remember alot of guys( and no Vita, I can't remember exactly who) guarantee wins, a lot of them end up being wrong too! Just so happens he was right along with some others!

I hated it when the Rams picked him up. I don't know how many of you remember the stretch the Rams went through for awhile picking up old over the hill QB's, Namath, Hadl Bartkowski, Pastorini, am I missing any?

I guess we can be thankful we aren't going that route now!

Actually Joe changed the game in many ways as a football historian you should no that. Joe knocked down barriers brought the big money to the players. Helped in merging the leagues. And was just to dam cool for school along with calling his shot a la Babe Ruth. Joes knees were shot before ever turned pro. I think its a sign of how players felt about him that opposing defenses would not hit him low. In an era when anything went. Sorry huge Namath fan.

 

[27mtrcougar]

Yep, I already called it, Vick, Bartkowski, George, Smith. Those aren't good QB's they each had some good years, overall none of them were that good, of those four, Smith has done a nice job, but he's not good by any means!

I will give you Bledsoe, forgot he played in Super Bowl, thought his only one was as back up, my bad there. pretty good career, nothing great.

Testaverde, really?his legacy is that he stuck around for 21 years, overall he was not good!

Namath was not drafted number 1 overall, and it's a joke that he is in the HOF ahead of a lot of guys that aren't! Seriously, do you believe he belongs?

come on man? if you last 21 years in the NFL your not that good? umm ill call BS. Whats the ave nfl career like 4 years at best.

 

[27mtrcougar]

Okay, this is how it usually works. We get tons of opinions and then someone feels the need to back up their opinion with a so-called 'fact' by stating it much as you did here.

By the way, please provide your source for this proven fact. I'm calling

Oh and another thing, answer this, if it is such an obvious fail as you present here, then why have the last 4 out of 5 No. 1 overall selections of the draft been QB? You'd think NFL organizations would know better.

• 2013 OT - E. Fisher OT
• 2012 QB - A. Luck
• 2011 QB - C. Newton
• 2010 QB - S. Bradford
• 2009 QB - M. Stafford

Last, are you contending that a majority of these QB's listed here are or will be a bust and fail?

and Fisher in 13 was because KC Already had a QB not to mention there were no QB's to take. EJ manuel was the first taken that year yikes.

 

[Smed55]

come on man? if you last 21 years in the NFL your not that good? umm ill call BS. Whats the ave nfl career like 4 years at best.

Just because you last 21 years doesn't make you good! Technically your boy Sammie could last 21 years years but that doesn't mean he's good.

What did Vinny ever do again, besides stick around for 21 years?, and I will give him credit for that, but there are things that happen that make you scratch your head, obviously some teams saw something in him, kind of like Sammie, but that something never materialized!

There are quite a few guys that make a nice career out of just sticking around

 

[27mtrcougar]

Yes Coug this year is "similar" as 2010, as I said, I don't know what exactly TB is thinking, as you said Williams probably is the safe pick, I think TB could still get a decent QB later on in this draft, and worse case they play another year with Gleannon, by no means a stud, but still young and has shown a little.

As far as Marriota having a "sprain" that is totally different and not as serious an injury! TB could use that #1 on Marriota and it still is a safer pick than us taking Bradford. Financially if it doesn't work out it isn't going to be as costly as us throwing so much money at Bradford. Yes there were not a lot of options when Bradford came out, but there were some decent options the next year, so all we had to do was take Suh, and take a chance on one of those options the next year. I know you don't agree because you are so in love with Sammie, but throwing that kind of money at a guy that hadn't played in TWO years, on top of he didn't
even throw at the combine, that's taking a big chance for that kind of money, on a QB that has questions!

I'm not sure how good TB's oline is either so that has to be taken into consideration, their running game isn't all that good either. But it's like others have said, build a dominant defense, get your oline figured out, than try to figure out your franchise QB, or at least than you only need a good QB to run your offense.

I agree the Bucs already have two so so QB's Glennon @ starter J. McCown. The Rams in 2010 had NOTHING for a QB. AJ FeelME which just means they were more in need of a QB. But the Bucs will still go QB not DT.

No way MM is a safer pick then Bradford was coming out. no scout would agree with that. Bradford is a prototypical QB that every team besides the Eagles want. he was 100% healthy and played all 16 games so saying he was hurt in college makes no sense. I guarantee you if Sam was coming out this year he would be the #1 pick for the Bucs. MM just has to many questions on the system he comes from. personally i think he will be good. maybe the next Russell Wilson but no guarantee in that for sure. but Sam would be CONSIDERED the safer pick hands down on draft day.

Again you say there were options the next year and we should have took Suh and waited for a QB. This is laughable! So you wanted to tank the 2010 season to get a shot at a QB? You expected fans to be happy with AJ at QB? yeah thats realistic and I'm sure the fans would love another 1-15 season WTF. the coaches and GM are paid to win now. not pass on the best QB prospect in a long time. you have no idea who will be available the next year and where you will be picking. we picked 14th in 2011 no QB's were there.

How good Tampas Oline means nothing. if you have a chance to draft a franchise QB you take it.

 

[Vitamike]

Just because you last 21 years doesn't make you good! Technically your boy Sammie could last 21 years years but that doesn't mean he's good.

What did Vinny ever do again, besides stick around for 21 years?, and I will give him credit for that, but there are things that happen that make you scratch your head, obviously some teams saw something in him, kind of like Sammie, but that something never materialized!

There are quite a few guys that make a nice career out of just sticking around

How's about that link that lists your 'facts' ?

 

[Smed55]

Actually Joe changed the game in many ways as a football historian you should no that. Joe knocked down barriers brought the big money to the players. Helped in merging the leagues. And was just to dam cool for school along with calling his shot a la Babe Ruth. Joes knees were shot before ever turned pro. I think its a sign of how players felt about him that opposing defenses would not hit him low. In an era when anything went. Sorry huge Namath fan.

I concede see, I can be swayed! But I also think that Namath just happened to be the one that came along at the right time, it was still a relatively new league and something had to be done to avoid a bidding war on players every year!

In thinking back 50% completion wasn't bad back then, I think they threw the deep ball a lot more, and the AFL was more of a passing league, with Namath, Hadl, and the mad bomber Lamonica!

Hey I'm trying to meet you guys in the middle

 

[Vitamike]

I agree the New York Jets should have maybe a special place in the HOF for being the first AFL team to win the Super Bowl. But Nanath was pretty much not very good throughout his career. His biggest feat was guaranteeing a Super Bowl win. I remember alot of guys( and no Vita, I can't remember exactly who) guarantee wins, a lot of them end up being wrong too! Just so happens he was right along with some others!

I hated it when the Rams picked him up. I don't know how many of you remember the stretch the Rams went through for awhile picking up old over the hill QB's, Namath, Hadl Bartkowski, Pastorini, am I missing any?

I guess we can be thankful we aren't going that route now!

I remember, that is when Georgia Fronteriere took over the team. Broadway Joe along with Dan Pastorini were critical components of the Rams organization and primary 'love' interests of one 'Miss Georgia Front&Rearie.

 

[Vitamike]

Yep, I already called it, Vick, Bartkowski, George, Smith. Those aren't good QB's they each had some good years, overall none of them were that good, of those four, Smith has done a nice job, but he's not good by any means!

I will give you Bledsoe, forgot he played in Super Bowl, thought his only one was as back up, my bad there. pretty good career, nothing great.

Testaverde, really?his legacy is that he stuck around for 21 years, overall he was not good!

Namath was not drafted number 1 overall, and it's a joke that he is in the HOF ahead of a lot of guys that aren't! Seriously, do you believe he belongs?

Like I said earlier, my list predated the contraction of the AFL and NFL so yes Joe was the No 1 overall in the AFL. Sorry you don't like the facts but they are what they are....

 

[Smed55]

I agree the Bucs already have two so so QB's Glennon @ starter J. McCown. The Rams in 2010 had NOTHING for a QB. AJ FeelME which just means they were more in need of a QB. But the Bucs will still go QB not DT.

No way MM is a safer pick then Bradford was coming out. no scout would agree with that. Bradford is a prototypical QB that every team besides the Eagles want. he was 100% healthy and played all 16 games so saying he was hurt in college makes no sense. I guarantee you if Sam was coming out this year he would be the #1 pick for the Bucs. MM just has to many questions on the system he comes from. personally i think he will be good. maybe the next Russell Wilson but no guarantee in that for sure. but Sam would be CONSIDERED the safer pick hands down on draft day.

Again you say there were options the next year and we should have took Suh and waited for a QB. This
is laughable! So you wanted to tank the 2010 season to get a shot at a QB? You expected fans to be happy with AJ at QB? yeah thats realistic and I'm sure the fans would love another 1-15 season WTF. the coaches and GM are paid to win now. not pass on the best QB prospect in a long time. you have no idea who will beavailable the next year and where you will be picking. we picked 14th in 2011 no QB's were there.

How good Tampas Oline means nothing. if you have a chance to draft a franchise QB you take it.

whatever! By safer pick I still meant Bradford hadn't played in two years, you can't say that you knew
what he would do based on one good year in college, plus by safer I was referring to cash wise, Marriota is a saver pick this year, because his contract won't kill them if he doesn't work out

As SJ also says, you will never get it!

 

[Vitamike]

whatever! By safer pick I still meant Bradford hadn't played in two years, you can't say that yo knew what he would do based on one good year in college, plus safer I was referring to cash wish

As SJ also says, you will never get it!

So the tune changes....

This was never about hindsight.....

We get it knowing what we know now with all the injuries and so do the Rams.

His shoulder injury NEVER comes in play. If you want to say injuries outside of his shoulder were the concern, again I call

Show me the link!

Never mind, you fail with links, just admit you're talking out of your ass.

 

[Smed55]

So the tune changes....

This was never about hindsight.....

We get it knowing what we know now with all the injuries and so do the Rams.

His shoulder injury NEVER comes in play. If you want to say injuries outside of his shoulder were the concern, again I call

Show me the link!

Never mind, you fail with links, just admit you're talking out of your ass.

And again, I never ever said his injuries were the concern, all I did say and listen, is that he hadn't played in two friction years and all the hype was based on one Great Sophomore year, again there have been cases where players have a great year and then suck in the NFL and that's after playing their senior year! No one knew for sure if his sophomore year was a fluke! It happens!

And then to sit there and say I'm sarcastic and more or less being an ass, without actually using that word, then turn around and act the same way you say I am, well Vita, Yiur soapbox just got bigger than mine!

 

[27mtrcougar]

whatever! By safer pick I still meant Bradford hadn't played in two years, you can't say that you knew
what he would do based on one good year in college, plus by safer I was referring to cash wise, Marriota is a saver pick this year, because his contract won't kill them if he doesn't work out

As SJ also says, you will never get it!

omg the Rams had no control on what the #1 pick got paid that year. there was no way around it.

 

[Smed55]

omg the Rams had no control on what the #1 pick got paid that year. there was no way around it.

Hello! We were talking about TB taking Williams over Marriota this year, but even if TB took Marriota, it would be a safer pick than the one in 2010 because of the money! There isn't as big of a gamble if he fails!

 

[27mtrcougar]

Hello! We were talking about TB taking Williams over Marriota this year, but even if TB took Marriota, it would be a safer pick than the one in 2010 because of the money! There isn't as big of a gamble if he fails!

Williams or MM contract will be the same? if you took suh #1 in 10 he would have got sam money. it was based on where you were picked.

 

[Smed55]

Williams or MM contract will be the same? if you took suh #1 in 10 he would have got sam money. it was based on where you were picked.

My God, you just aren't getting it! Let's take the whole 2010 season out of this equation for a minute.

We are talking about this year and this year only, this year it would be a much saver pick to take Marriota over Williams, because if he doesn't work out it won't cost them that much! Williams is the safer pick between the two because the odds are he will work out, not necessarily, but QB's are more of a iffy pick!

Now back in 2010, even though they would make about the same money, Suh would have still been the safer pick, you have a four year resume on him and you absolutely knew what he could do, as far as Bradford you knew what he did two years ago, but what have you done the past two years, oh that's right rehab, do we really know what we are getting with that kind of pick, ya we are "hoping" we are getting the Bradford from two years ago