The greatest sports taboo...the openly gay player

[Forty_Sixand2]

I figured that since Jeff Sly likes to open up controversial topics, today I would do the job.

I was reading an article in an older sports illustrated while at the doctors office yesterday, and I read an article about a big time rugby player in Europe coming out of the closet as being openly gay, and how it went down and the response and all that. It was very interesting to me. and it got me thinking a little bit.

I figured that this forum is thoughtful and exclusive enough that we could have a heated, thought provoking and open discussion about the topic.

It is estimated that 10% of American males are homosexual. The numbers vary internationally, but not by much. The most recent number that I have seen for Canada is between 12-14%, and for Russia, 7-8%. This, of course, does not mean that 10% of professional athletes are gay, as there are other factors involved. Other lifestyle choice may have a disproportionally high number of homosexuals, and the homosexual lifestyle or pressure may steer some gay males away from sports. That being said, if we conservatively said that 3-5% of professional athletes are gay, that would still mean that 1-2 players on your favorite hockey or baseball team, and 3-5 players on your favorite football team are homosexual.

However, openly gay ACTIVE male athletes are non-existent in North America (that I know of at least). There is clearly some sort of taboo and stigma associated with it.

I would, personally, expect that the sport where coming out would be most easily accepted, at least in the United States would be hockey for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, I think that the team camaraderie is much higher in hockey than in any other team sport. These guys, literally, battle along side of each other for 8 months a year and virtually live together. The "team" concept seems much more ingrained here. because of this, I feel a player would be most comfortable coming out in this environment and his teammates would be more protective and willing to stand by him. In addition, hockey is a sport that is prevalent in, generally speaking, more progressive environments. Although an admitted generalization, hockey players tend to come from more "well off" families and it can be conjectured, that they may come from more accepting environments. This is the case in the United States, I know from my personal experience. I know less about Canada and Europe, obviously.

So, how would you feel if a player on your favorite team came out of the closet and was openly gay? Would you be fine with it? What if he was your favorite player? Would you wear his jersey? Would you let your son or daughter wear his jersey? What if it was the star player? What if it was a guy considered a badass tough guy? Generally speaking, how would you react?

I am very very interested in peoples opinions of this. The article really got me thinking. It is bound to happen in the US or Canada at some point, and when it does, perhaps it will open the door for many other players to come out openly.

I am pretty conservative straight male. My conservatism tends more towards government issues and not social issues, however. As an example, I think that each individual church should decide who to marry, not the government, and I openly support gay marriage et al. I have many friends and some relatives who are openly gay, so I am exposed to the lifestyle (which is far different than the one that is promoted in the media).

Personally, I would like to think that I would be fine with it. Of course, I can not know how I would react until it occurred, but I would think that it would be just another factor about the player.

Hopefully, we can have an open and educated discussion on here, and I personally will not ridicule anybody for their opinions. I can only pledge that for myself, but we are a good group. If you don't like it, would not like or root for the player or whatever, I totally get that and respect your opinion, and I really do want to get peoples take.

Here is the article that I read:

Gareth Thomas ... The Only Openly Gay Male Athlete - 05.03.10 - SI Vault

 

[Automattic]

I don't know about all that. Avery's teammates seem to only put up with it for so long...

 

[apachef4]

I would be fine with it. The problem that they'd have is their fellow players. Sports is a "macho" world, and homosexuality and macho guys tend not to get along very well. I was in the army for six years, and it was the same thing. I could not have cared less if a fellow soldier was gay. I used to laugh at the comment "would you want to share a foxhole with a fag?" Something tells me that guy would have more on his mind than jumping my bones if we are in a fire-fight. I was the minority, however, and I think that accepting players would be a minority, too. The environment would be brutal for the guy that comes out, at least initially. Maybe after some folks do come out in the locker room, and after some time, it will become less of a big deal and the negative stigma will come off of it.

 

[sportfan09]

explains crosby then lol

 

[loki604]

It's honestly pretty sad that this kind of conversation exists.

In 50 years, talking about this will be as backwards as talking about whether black people should be able to play in the MLB.

 

[sportfan09]

2011 really dosen't matter anymore what hole you want to plug as long as it aint mine....hey if they want to putt from the ruff so be it,people are killing each other left and right war is still being fought from a 1000 miles away so we have worse things out there then two dudes wearing sky masks pumping each other

 

[sportfan09]

It's honestly pretty sad that this kind of conversation exists.

In 50 years, talking about this will be as backwards as talking about whether black people should be able to play in the MLB.

agreed but ignorance is still amongs us and always will be

 

[apachef4]

It's honestly pretty sad that this kind of conversation exists.

In 50 years, talking about this will be as backwards as talking about whether black people should be able to play in the MLB.

It is sad, unfortunately society tends to change slowly. The larger problem here is that it is centered around "morality". Black baseball players had no choice in being born black, and anti-homosexuals believe that it is a choice to be homosexual, so they are immoral people because they engage in what they believe to be an immoral act. Just to be clear, this is NOT my stance, just stating what I believe their's to be. Anyway, I think it's a lot harder to change someone's morality than to convince them that black people are just like white people, since it's a scientific fact. Of course, the centuries/millenia of racism kind of goes against my point...

 

[elocomotive]

I would be fine with it. The problem that they'd have is their fellow players. Sports is a "macho" world, and homosexuality and macho guys tend not to get along very well. I was in the army for six years, and it was the same thing. I could not have cared less if a fellow soldier was gay. I used to laugh at the comment "would you want to share a foxhole with a fag?" Something tells me that guy would have more on his mind than jumping my bones if we are in a fire-fight. I was the minority, however, and I think that accepting players would be a minority, too. The environment would be brutal for the guy that comes out, at least initially. Maybe after some folks do come out in the locker room, and after some time, it will become less of a big deal and the negative stigma will come off of it.

The person I want next to me is the person with the best aim!!

Agree it will change someday, but it's going to be tough for the first few people who come out. Media frenzy, ultra masculine environment - tough enough to be homosexual in our society, but in pro sports, geesh.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

It's honestly pretty sad that this kind of conversation exists.

In 50 years, talking about this will be as backwards as talking about whether black people should be able to play in the MLB.

That was kind of the point of me bringing it up....

It is there, but not openly there....

Why???

 

[apachef4]

That was kind of the point of me bringing it up....

It is there, but not openly there....

Why???

I think the "why" is that they fear being ostracized, which they most likely will be. Throw into the mix that it could potentially cost them millions of dollars if they are black-balled, and I can't blame them a bit for staying in the closet. It's probably a miserable existance to live a lie like that, but I imagine they believe it would be even worse for them if they told the truth.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I think the "why" is that they fear being ostracized, which they most likely will be. Throw into the mix that it could potentially cost them millions of dollars if they are black-balled, and I can't blame them a bit for staying in the closet. It's probably a miserable existance to live a lie like that, but I imagine they believe it would be even worse for them if they told the truth.

If you have a chance, you should rad that article. It hits on all of those points and is very interesting.

 

[elocomotive]

I think the "why" is that they fear being ostracized, which they most likely will be. Throw into the mix that it could potentially cost them millions of dollars if they are black-balled, and I can't blame them a bit for staying in the closet. It's probably a miserable existance to live a lie like that, but I imagine they believe it would be even worse for them if they told the truth.

I saw a report on this on HBO a few years back with a former NFL lineman (quick Web search finds a guy Esera Tuaolo, who was probably the guy) who was gay. He was scared... and keep in mind the guy is a 300-lb lineman. He thought he would be ostracized, beaten up, taunted, and lose his friends on the team.

 

[loki604]

I definitely agree with the point that hockey players would be the most accepted. The anti-gay people are, generally, the poor, the uneducated, and the religious, none of which is extremely prevelant in hockey players.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I definitely agree with the point that hockey players would be the most accepted. The anti-gay people are, generally, the poor, the uneducated, and the religious, none of which is extremely prevelant in hockey players.

....speaking of gross generalizations

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I think some fans would react negatively, but a lot would react positively as well and show their support.

Personally, I think my reaction would be something along the lines of "meh."

If the guy puts the puck in the net/ball in the end zone I'd cheer for him. If the guy sucked, I'd boo him.

 

[Destroydacre]

It wouldn't bother me at all if anyone on the Sharks (or any team for that matter) was openly gay. I don't know if it's true for the majority, but most of the people I know who are homophobic have a mindset that because a guy is gay, he is sexually attracted to every male person, which is ludicrous. There's no doubt in my mind that if a male athlete came out, there would be a rift in the locker room. It might only be between him and a few players, but I just don't believe that all 23 or 24 players on the roster would be accepting. Sadly, it wouldn't shock me to see an openly gay player receive a few death threats too. I do believe society is becoming more accepting of gay marriage which is a good thing. I know Washington passed a law a few years back and while it didn't legalize gay marriage, it did give gay couples more benefits. However Washington is one of the most liberal states in the union. A lot of people aren't ready to make the jump yet, and although it is slowly getting better, we just haven't reached a point yet where an athlete can feel secure being openly gay.

 

[apachef4]

If you have a chance, you should rad that article. It hits on all of those points and is very interesting.

Yep, it is very interesting. I'm glad to see folks were so accepting of him. I hope that would happen here, but I'm skeptical. The US tends to be very conservative when it comes to sexuality, much moreso than Europe. To have the greatest chance for success, I think it would have to be someone on the Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter, Peyton Manning level to really be accepted, at least in the beginning. It sounds like Alfie was that sort of guy in Wales.

Again, for that first guy, it's a huge leap of faith. What could Michael Jordan potentially cost himself if he comes out at 35 years old? Maybe nothing, but also maybe all the adoration and legacy he's built. He doesn't know until he does it. And I can't imagine a young guy doing it at all and being successful. I think he'd be considered a pariah, and just too dangerous (in a marketing and headache way) for teams to deal with. Again, I hope that won't be the case, but it's something a guy would have to consider if he's going to come out.

 

[SLY]

I'd have no problem with it... for the most part. To each their own, I used to care more about the topic, but now as I matured I can really care less. While I am conservative, as you are 46, I personally do not agree with it, but I have come to the realization that it is a life choice other people make, and there is nothing I can do to change that. If a player openly came out, I wouldn't care as long as the negative media they would endure didn't affect their play on the ice/field. Whether or not I'd wear their jersey, that is a tough one... But all in all, I think when sports brings this up, like the racial issue, it is more or less for ratings and viewing rather than actually solving the issue. When something is shown in negative light, it just sets everything back a few steps instead of pushing forward.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

why do those pro athletes in question have to be "openly" gay ... cant they just be gay. I think if you polled all pro athletes youd get a majority saying they have no problem with gays on their teams, just dont tell us about it ... do they seriously want to challenge the locker room ethos whereby everyone conforms ... breaking news: if you dont fit in for any reason in team sports, youre not gonna last long

is there something to gain for them to announce this to the world

im sure in the history of pro sports as we know it there have been hundreds of people who were gay. And Im sure some of those hundred were all star calibre. Yes the attitudes that are prevalent in lockerrooms may have driven some out of their sports because they couldnt overcome the rumours but what is coming out of the closet going to solve

some gay athletes have succeeded and some failed ... memo to everyone ... same can be said about all aspiring athletes, gay or straight ... seems like the only time a gay athlete comes out is post career, and to me, their coming out is more about explaining why they failed as athletes and using the excuse of being gay as a crutch ... that coaches knew deep down they were gay and ostracized them and kept them off of this team or sabotaged their development because of it.

these excuses are similar to the excuses i hear playing slo-pitch from the fat dude who said he could been a pro "but it was all politics" ... lame if you ask me!