The future potential of 2020's projected playoff teams from worst to best:

[tlance]

I have nothing to add than repeating the same on your repeating of all the same, but on this, which is different to what T-Lance suggests...

Therefore I'll let you two guys have a "productive conversation" on whether the Knicks and the Lakers should be ranked all the same as you suggest, or the Lakers higher as T-L suggests...

I think you would do a lot better if you simply ranked the “young talent” on each team’s roster.

Which I think is basically what you are trying to do.

But the problem is that when you start talking about a team’s future, there is a lot more involved. You have to consider the front office, quality of the market, likelihood of attracting difference making free agents and many other factors as well.

Which it is pretty clear that you didn’t do any of that. Or at least not for every team.

So maybe be more clear about what you are trying to discuss next time.

 

[trojanfan12]

I have nothing to add than repeating the same on your repeating of all the same, but on this, which is different to what T-Lance suggests...

Therefore I'll let you two guys have a "productive conversation" on whether the Knicks and the Lakers should be ranked all the same as you suggest, or the Lakers higher as T-L suggests...

My suggestion and @tlance suggestion are not mutually exclusive.

They can both be unknown. You can then look at their histories and say that when the rosters are put together, the Lakers are more likely to have a good team and the Knicks are more likely to be a bad team. But at the moment, they are both unknown because of the open roster spots and cap space they look like they will have.

 

[handicappers]

But it is not "unknown"... with "unknown" I have the teams which already have a talented young roster but luck a "leader" to curry the team... If they can land a leader, or if they can develop one, or if they can draft a future leader, is what makes their potential unknown.

On the Lakers I don't count for AD's possible departure at all (nor for any other team for that matter), if he will depart, I'll move them right at the bottom as I already have said, I rank them as having a "poor" future, because they have their entire roster (but AD) aging and other than Kuzma and Karuzo who are coming from the bench, there is nobody else in age to be counted for the future... They have a limited number of picks and no cap space to go for a proven youngish talent out of free agency after they extend AD (which is what I also take in mind).

Do you eat your boogers?

 

[logic]

Do you eat your boogers?

yes he does, just not his own.

 

[Sparhawk]

 

[buckalis]

An extremely interesting development that may affect the entire league's future has happened yesterday (March the 9th '20) with the Milwaukee Bucks...

Coach Budenholger, kept ALL the "core roster" of 7 players rested and only used the "deep roster" of 8 players + 1 out of the 2-way contracts to play against a contending for the title team at Denver (total of 9 players). The total value of the 5 players contracts that were used in the starting roster was only 11.5M !!!.

The move, clearly was not one of "load managment", but it rather seems that the Bucks were "experimenting" in order to:

1. Evaluate their deep roster players against one of the best teams in the NBA.

2. Decide which players are useful and which can be replaced in order to further upgrade the team for the next season.

3. Decide which out of the "deep roster" players can be "upgraded" to the "hard core" roster of 8 players that were not used at all and therefore significantly upgrade the roster for the following season ('20/'21), by moving one (or more) of the much more expensive contracts that are on the "hard core" of players.

The results of the "experiment" were extremely encouraging, the Bucks lost of course the game 114-95 as expected, but the "deep roster" players were able to win two of the quarters (the 2nd and the 3d) and have shown that the coaching team can rely on them to "keep the game going" when coming from bench.

The starting 5 were: Sterling Brown (PG), Marvin Williams (SG), Pat Connaughton (SF), Thanasis Antetokounmpo (PF) and Robin Lopez (C), while Frank Mason, Kyle Korver, Ersan Ilyasova and D.J. Wilson came from bench, which suggests that Kyle Korver (aging - may retire next season), Ersan Ilyasova (aging - 7M non-guaranteed contract for next season) and D.J Wilson (final year on rookie contract worth 4.5M for next season) won't probably be in the Bucks roster for the next season, which will give to the Bucks additional value of 11.5M to add to the 10M in cash they have before the lux tax threshold for next season (total of 21M of contracts value can be added to the team). The use of Frank Mason as back-up PG, suggests that the Bucks are considering to sign him in a regular contract for the next season in order to extend their guards depth.

If the Bucks will move one of the contracts of Eric Bledsoe (17M for the next season) and/or Brook Lopez (13M for the next season) they can add another 30M of contracts value to the roster, thus ending up with a total of 51M of contracts that can be added.

If the Bucks will pick two players during the draft night and do sign Frank Mason in the main roster, it will mean that they will still end up with 46M for the (only) two roster spots which will remain empty for next season, which then means that a (or two) major and impactful contract value addition(s) can be made, which would of course cause for the Bucks to be much better that they already are...

Of course such a major and very possible to happen as it looks development, would have to cause the competition to react accordingly as to stay competitive and then could lead in a "new era of future super-teams" appearing in the NBA.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

An extremely interesting development that may affect the entire league's future has happened yesterday (March the 9th '20) with the Milwaukee Bucks...

Coach Budenholger, kept ALL the "core roster" of 7 players rested and only used the "deep roster" of 8 players + 1 out of the 2-way contracts to play against a contending for the title team at Denver (total of 9 players). The total value of the 5 players contracts that were used in the starting roster was only 11.5M !!!.

The move, clearly was not one of "load managment", but it rather seems that the Bucks were "experimenting" in order to:

1. Evaluate their deep roster players against one of the best teams in the NBA.

2. Decide which players are useful and which can be replaced in order to further upgrade the team for the next season.

3. Decide which out of the "deep roster" players can be "upgraded" to the "hard core" roster of 8 players that were not used at all and therefore significantly upgrade the roster for the following season ('20/'21), by moving one (or more) of the much more expensive contracts that are on the "hard core" of players.

The results of the "experiment" were extremely encouraging, the Bucks lost of course the game 114-95 as expected, but the "deep roster" players were able to win two of the quarters (the 2nd and the 3d) and have shown that the coaching team can rely on them to "keep the game going" when coming from bench.

The starting 5 were: Sterling Brown (PG), Marvin Williams (SG), Pat Connaughton (SF), Thanasis Antetokounmpo (PF) and Robin Lopez (C), while Frank Mason, Kyle Korver, Ersan Ilyasova and D.J. Wilson came from bench, which suggests that Kyle Korver (aging - may retire next season), Ersan Ilyasova (aging - 7M non-guaranteed contract for next season) and D.J Wilson (final year on rookie contract worth 4.5M for next season) won't probably be in the Bucks roster for the next season, which will give to the Bucks additional value of 11.5M to add to the 10M in cash they have before the lux tax threshold for next season (total of 21M of contracts value can be added to the team). The use of Frank Mason as back-up PG, suggests that the Bucks are considering to sign him in a regular contract for the next season in order to extend their guards depth.

If the Bucks will move one of the contracts of Eric Bledsoe (17M for the next season) and/or Brook Lopez (13M for the next season) they can add another 30M of contracts value to the roster, thus ending up with a total of 51M of contracts that can be added.

If the Bucks will pick two players during the draft night and do sign Frank Mason in the main roster, it will mean that they will still end up with 46M for the (only) two roster spots which will remain empty for next season, which then means that a (or both) major and impactful contract value addition(s) can be made, which would of course cause for the Bucks to be much better that they already are...

Of course such a major and very possible to happen as it looks development, would have to cause the competition to react accordingly as to stay competitive and then could lead in a "new era of future super-teams" appearing in the NBA.

 

[Wamu]

An extremely interesting development that may affect the entire league's future has happened yesterday (March the 9th '20) with the Milwaukee Bucks...

Coach Budenholger, kept ALL the "core roster" of 7 players rested and only used the "deep roster" of 8 players + 1 out of the 2-way contracts to play against a contending for the title team at Denver (total of 9 players). The total value of the 5 players contracts that were used in the starting roster was only 11.5M !!!.

The move, clearly was not one of "load managment", but it rather seems that the Bucks were "experimenting" in order to:

1. Evaluate their deep roster players against one of the best teams in the NBA.

2. Decide which players are useful and which can be replaced in order to further upgrade the team for the next season.

3. Decide which out of the "deep roster" players can be "upgraded" to the "hard core" roster of 8 players that were not used at all and therefore significantly upgrade the roster for the following season ('20/'21), by moving one (or more) of the much more expensive contracts that are on the "hard core" of players.

The results of the "experiment" were extremely encouraging, the Bucks lost of course the game 114-95 as expected, but the "deep roster" players were able to win two of the quarters (the 2nd and the 3d) and have shown that the coaching team can rely on them to "keep the game going" when coming from bench.

The starting 5 were: Sterling Brown (PG), Marvin Williams (SG), Pat Connaughton (SF), Thanasis Antetokounmpo (PF) and Robin Lopez (C), while Frank Mason, Kyle Korver, Ersan Ilyasova and D.J. Wilson came from bench, which suggests that Kyle Korver (aging - may retire next season), Ersan Ilyasova (aging - 7M non-guaranteed contract for next season) and D.J Wilson (final year on rookie contract worth 4.5M for next season) won't probably be in the Bucks roster for the next season, which will give to the Bucks additional value of 11.5M to add to the 10M in cash they have before the lux tax threshold for next season (total of 21M of contracts value can be added to the team). The use of Frank Mason as back-up PG, suggests that the Bucks are considering to sign him in a regular contract for the next season in order to extend their guards depth.

If the Bucks will move one of the contracts of Eric Bledsoe (17M for the next season) and/or Brook Lopez (13M for the next season) they can add another 30M of contracts value to the roster, thus ending up with a total of 51M of contracts that can be added.

If the Bucks will pick two players during the draft night and do sign Frank Mason in the main roster, it will mean that they will still end up with 46M for the (only) two roster spots which will remain empty for next season, which then means that a (or both) major and impactful contract value addition(s) can be made, which would of course cause for the Bucks to be much better that they already are...

Of course such a major and very possible to happen as it looks development, would have to cause the competition to react accordingly as to stay competitive and then could lead in a "new era of future super-teams" appearing in the NBA.

 

[trojanfan12]

Deep roster?

Is that anything like the Deep State?

 

[Wamu]

Deep roster?

Is that anything like the Deep State?

View attachment 234703

You read that gibberish? I stopped after extremely interesting.

 

[trojanfan12]

You read that gibberish? I stopped after extremely interesting.

Just to the deep roster part.

 

[Black Adam]

You read that gibberish? I stopped after extremely interesting.

interesting how the Bucks 3 game losing streak never came up in conversation...

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Hey @trojanfan12

Can we banish both @WiggyRuss and @buckalis to their own thread and see who melts down first.

We can place bets, throw popcorn. It'll be a hoot.

 

[tlance]

An extremely interesting development that may affect the entire league's future has happened yesterday (March the 9th '20) with the Milwaukee Bucks...

Coach Budenholger, kept ALL the "core roster" of 7 players rested and only used the "deep roster" of 8 players + 1 out of the 2-way contracts to play against a contending for the title team at Denver (total of 9 players). The total value of the 5 players contracts that were used in the starting roster was only 11.5M !!!.

The move, clearly was not one of "load managment", but it rather seems that the Bucks were "experimenting" in order to:

1. Evaluate their deep roster players against one of the best teams in the NBA.

2. Decide which players are useful and which can be replaced in order to further upgrade the team for the next season.

3. Decide which out of the "deep roster" players can be "upgraded" to the "hard core" roster of 8 players that were not used at all and therefore significantly upgrade the roster for the following season ('20/'21), by moving one (or more) of the much more expensive contracts that are on the "hard core" of players.

The results of the "experiment" were extremely encouraging, the Bucks lost of course the game 114-95 as expected, but the "deep roster" players were able to win two of the quarters (the 2nd and the 3d) and have shown that the coaching team can rely on them to "keep the game going" when coming from bench.

The starting 5 were: Sterling Brown (PG), Marvin Williams (SG), Pat Connaughton (SF), Thanasis Antetokounmpo (PF) and Robin Lopez (C), while Frank Mason, Kyle Korver, Ersan Ilyasova and D.J. Wilson came from bench, which suggests that Kyle Korver (aging - may retire next season), Ersan Ilyasova (aging - 7M non-guaranteed contract for next season) and D.J Wilson (final year on rookie contract worth 4.5M for next season) won't probably be in the Bucks roster for the next season, which will give to the Bucks additional value of 11.5M to add to the 10M in cash they have before the lux tax threshold for next season (total of 21M of contracts value can be added to the team). The use of Frank Mason as back-up PG, suggests that the Bucks are considering to sign him in a regular contract for the next season in order to extend their guards depth.

If the Bucks will move one of the contracts of Eric Bledsoe (17M for the next season) and/or Brook Lopez (13M for the next season) they can add another 30M of contracts value to the roster, thus ending up with a total of 51M of contracts that can be added.

If the Bucks will pick two players during the draft night and do sign Frank Mason in the main roster, it will mean that they will still end up with 46M for the (only) two roster spots which will remain empty for next season, which then means that a (or two) major and impactful contract value addition(s) can be made, which would of course cause for the Bucks to be much better that they already are...

Of course such a major and very possible to happen as it looks development, would have to cause the competition to react accordingly as to stay competitive and then could lead in a "new era of future super-teams" appearing in the NBA.

If they are using Bledsoe and Lopez contracts to deal for a bigger bad contract like Chris Paul, then sure. That is realistic.

But please don’t ever again suggest that the Bucks are going to trade for a superstar like Curry.

On second thought, maybe you should. Because it does provide excellent comedy relief for the rest of us.

 

[trojanfan12]

An extremely interesting development that may affect the entire league's future has happened yesterday (March the 9th '20) with the Milwaukee Bucks...

Coach Budenholger, kept ALL the "core roster" of 7 players rested and only used the "deep roster" of 8 players + 1 out of the 2-way contracts to play against a contending for the title team at Denver (total of 9 players). The total value of the 5 players contracts that were used in the starting roster was only 11.5M !!!.

The move, clearly was not one of "load managment", but it rather seems that the Bucks were "experimenting" in order to:

1. Evaluate their deep roster players against one of the best teams in the NBA.

2. Decide which players are useful and which can be replaced in order to further upgrade the team for the next season.

3. Decide which out of the "deep roster" players can be "upgraded" to the "hard core" roster of 8 players that were not used at all and therefore significantly upgrade the roster for the following season ('20/'21), by moving one (or more) of the much more expensive contracts that are on the "hard core" of players.

The results of the "experiment" were extremely encouraging, the Bucks lost of course the game 114-95 as expected, but the "deep roster" players were able to win two of the quarters (the 2nd and the 3d) and have shown that the coaching team can rely on them to "keep the game going" when coming from bench.

The starting 5 were: Sterling Brown (PG), Marvin Williams (SG), Pat Connaughton (SF), Thanasis Antetokounmpo (PF) and Robin Lopez (C), while Frank Mason, Kyle Korver, Ersan Ilyasova and D.J. Wilson came from bench, which suggests that Kyle Korver (aging - may retire next season), Ersan Ilyasova (aging - 7M non-guaranteed contract for next season) and D.J Wilson (final year on rookie contract worth 4.5M for next season) won't probably be in the Bucks roster for the next season, which will give to the Bucks additional value of 11.5M to add to the 10M in cash they have before the lux tax threshold for next season (total of 21M of contracts value can be added to the team). The use of Frank Mason as back-up PG, suggests that the Bucks are considering to sign him in a regular contract for the next season in order to extend their guards depth.

If the Bucks will move one of the contracts of Eric Bledsoe (17M for the next season) and/or Brook Lopez (13M for the next season) they can add another 30M of contracts value to the roster, thus ending up with a total of 51M of contracts that can be added.

If the Bucks will pick two players during the draft night and do sign Frank Mason in the main roster, it will mean that they will still end up with 46M for the (only) two roster spots which will remain empty for next season, which then means that a (or two) major and impactful contract value addition(s) can be made, which would of course cause for the Bucks to be much better that they already are...

Of course such a major and very possible to happen as it looks development, would have to cause the competition to react accordingly as to stay competitive and then could lead in a "new era of future super-teams" appearing in the NBA.

Someone should probably just go ahead and add this to the Wiggy/buck-Alice being wrong thread now.

You know, as kind of a spoiler alert.

 

[buckalis]

If they are using Bledsoe and Lopez contracts to deal for a bigger bad contract like Chris Paul, then sure. That is realistic.

But please don’t ever again suggest that the Bucks are going to trade for a superstar like Curry.

On second thought, maybe you should. Because it does provide excellent comedy relief for the rest of us.

I don't believe the Bucks will move both Bledsoe and Lopez out of the starting roster simultaneously on the same season, nor I know if it is Bledsoe who will be replaced before Hill does or vice versa...

I any case, it can be Bledsoe, or Hill, or Brolo, or it can be Bledsoe and Lopez, or Hill and Lopez if there is a vast amount that will be used for an impactful trade which will turn the Bucks to a "super-team"...

All I know is:

1. That the Bucks financials are of the "state of the art" kind, so that they can "pay" for anything in order to get it done, and...

2. That the Bucks will move into the tax (and then possibly deep into it), for the 21-22 season with Giannis contract renewal and then that they have timed Middleton's contract to expire exactly at the season where they would be "repeaters tax" eligible and Middleton 32y.o.

3. That GM John Horst and the F.O. do have a policy they already execute and will continue to execute for as long as Giannis career lasts, to significantly upgrade the roster for each and every next season...


After a very difficult 2019 preseason which worked exceptionally well for the team in order to keep the roster and even improve on it, the Bucks now have only three untouchable contracts on Giannis, Middleton and Divicenzo, therefore what will follow is easy to predict... They will continue to add strength and simultaneously to improve the team's age average step by step and roster role by roster role by taking one step (but a significant one) at the time.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I don't believe the Bucks will move both Bledsoe and Lopez out of the starting roster simultaneously on the same season, nor I know if it is Bledsoe who will be replaced before Hill does or vice versa...

I any case, it can be Bledsoe, or Hill, or Brolo, or it can be Bledsoe and Lopez, or Hill and Lopez if there is a vast amount that will be used for an impactful trade which will turn the Bucks to a "super-team"...

All I know is:

1. That the Bucks financials are of the "state of the art" kind, so that they can "pay" for anything in order to get it done, and...

2. That the Bucks will move into the tax (and then possibly deep into it), for the 21-22 season with Giannis contract renewal and then that they have timed Middleton's contract to expire exactly at the season where they would be "repeaters tax" eligible and Middleton 32y.o.

3. That GM John Horst and the F.O. do have a policy they already execute and will continue to execute for as long as Giannis career lasts, to significantly upgrade the roster for each and every next season...


After a very difficult 2019 preseason which worked exceptionally well for the team in order to keep the roster and even improve on it, the Bucks now have only three untouchable contracts on Giannis, Middleton and Divicenzo, therefore what will follow is easy to predict... They will continue to add strength and simultaneously to improve the team's age average step by step and roster role by roster role by taking one step (but a significant one) at the time.

 

[tlance]

I don't believe the Bucks will move both Bledsoe and Lopez out of the starting roster simultaneously on the same season, nor I know if it is Bledsoe who will be replaced before Hill does or vice versa...

I any case, it can be Bledsoe, or Hill, or Brolo, or it can be Bledsoe and Lopez, or Hill and Lopez if there is a vast amount that will be used for an impactful trade which will turn the Bucks to a "super-team"...

All I know is:

1. That the Bucks financials are of the "state of the art" kind, so that they can "pay" for anything in order to get it done, and...

2. That the Bucks will move into the tax (and then possibly deep into it), for the 21-22 season with Giannis contract renewal and then that they have timed Middleton's contract to expire exactly at the season where they would be "repeaters tax" eligible and Middleton 32y.o.

3. That GM John Horst and the F.O. do have a policy they already execute and will continue to execute for as long as Giannis career lasts, to significantly upgrade the roster for each and every next season...


After a very difficult 2019 preseason which worked exceptionally well for the team in order to keep the roster and even improve on it, the Bucks now have only three untouchable contracts on Giannis, Middleton and Divicenzo, therefore what will follow is easy to predict... They will continue to add strength and simultaneously to improve the team's age average step by step and roster role by roster role by taking one step (but a significant one) at the time.

See though, they won’t continue to get stronger. The CBA makes it almost impossible. They might make a trade or two that improve them slightly, but some years they will definitely get worse when they can’t pay certain players to return.

And while I do believe they are willing to pay tax to keep Giannis, I am not convinced they are willing to go over by as much as needed to keep everybody else. And when you pick at the end of the draft, it is harder and harder to replace players with young talent.

Lastly, super teams have multiple super stars. Milwaukee will never have that.

 

[Wamu]

interesting how the Bucks 3 game losing streak never came up in conversation...

Because a 3 game losing streak never happened. And the Buck did beat the Lakers. On buckboy's video game system.

 

[buckalis]

See though, they won’t continue to get stronger. The CBA makes it almost impossible. They might make a trade or two that improve them slightly, but some years they will definitely get worse when they can’t pay certain players to return.

And while I do believe they are willing to pay tax to keep Giannis, I am not convinced they are willing to go over by as much as needed to keep everybody else. And when you pick at the end of the draft, it is harder and harder to replace players with young talent.

Lastly, super teams have multiple super stars. Milwaukee will never have that.

One by one...

-The CBA doesn't make anything impossible...

-If you think that by being able to add from 21.5M and up to 51M of value will cause only "a slight improvement", then it's you "speaking", not me...

-To be able and pay "key players" for the roster in order to keep them, it's what makes a great GM... Just look on how the salaries of the Bucks develop and unless if one is dumb, he will get it! Middleton expires when he will be 32 y.o.... The lux tax threshold at the days will be near to 180M...

-Again, you reply on what has already been explained... as if you haven't read what you quote upon... No problem for the Bucks to go deep into the tax, Middleton's contract expires expires exactly on the season before the Bucks become repeters tax eligible... He'll be 32y.o. at the days...

-Like with this season, the Bucks are not using their own picks to draft, but the ones of other teams which have match better value...

-Others buy superstars, we develop superstars... Not that we are the pioneers in doing it... GSW were before us...