The future potential of 2020's projected playoff teams from worst to best:

[CitySushi]

What if the Bucks opt for Covington or even your own Russell with a larger package that still includes Brown (or Conn) and Wilson (or Ilyasova this time)... what's the deal then?

Nothing because if they are traded as part of a larger package, it means they are no longer the focal point of the trade.

We're trying to establish your perceived value of Brown and Wilson versus mine. You believe those two (or Connaughton) could fetch Derrick Rose in a trade. I disagree.

So any trades involving Brown, Connaughton or Wilson either individually or collectively, with no other assets attached then we can have the same terms. But including additional actual assets to package just moves the goal posts.

So it's up to you. My side is out there. Up to you if you want to accept it.

 

[buckalis]

Nothing because if they are traded as part of a larger package, it means they are no longer the focal point of the trade.

We're trying to establish your perceived value of Brown and Wilson versus mine. You believe those two (or Connaughton) could fetch Derrick Rose in a trade. I disagree.

So any trades involving Brown, Connaughton or Wilson either individually or collectively, with no other assets attached then we can have the same terms. But including additional actual assets to package just moves the goal posts.

So it's up to you. My side is out there. Up to you if you want to accept it.

So... you are saying that if Kerr takes Brown and Wilson included in a package for Russell, he won't count them as significant return? I can assure you that Brown alone fits his plans of having the ideal back up for Thompson perfect!

A 3 team deal proposal where the Bucks pay Bledsoe for Covington and then pass Convington, Wilson and Brown to GSW for Russell + Burks ending to the Bucks, would make Kerr jump off his chair!

 

[CitySushi]

So... you are saying that if Kerr takes Brown and Wilson included in a package for Russell, he won't count them as significant return? I can assure you that Brown alone fits his plans of having the ideal back up for Thompson perfect!

A 3 team deal proposal where the Bucks pay Bledsoe for Covington and then pass Convington, Wilson and Brown to GSW for Russell + Burks ending to the Bucks, would make Kerr jump off his chair!

Well if Kerr took Brown and Wilson back on a package for Russell, neither of those guys are of any significance. So yes, I'm again saying they're not any significant return.

 

[buckalis]

Well if Kerr took Brown and Wilson back on a package for Russell, neither of those guys are of any significance. So yes, I'm again saying they're not any significant return.

You call him an idiot then... aren't you? I mean if Brown and Wilson are of no significance, then he values Covington equal to Russell, which only an idiot would do... Therefore if he would take the deal (which he surely would if the Bucks would make the proposal - the Wolves would also surely take it) you call him an idiot...

 

[CitySushi]

You call him an idiot then... aren't you? I mean if Brown and Wilson are of no significance, then he values Covington equal to Russell, which only an idiot would do... Therefore if he would take the deal (which he surely would) you call him an idiot...

I would call Kerr an idiot if he valued Brown and Wilson that highly. Our main argument here is that you value Brown and Wilson differently than I do. I think they're replacement level and non assets. They're cap filler in any package trades. They're not even upgrades to anyone the Warriors have right now.

So either accept the initial terms or agree to disagree on value.

 

[buckalis]

I would call Kerr an idiot if he valued Brown and Wilson that highly. Our main argument here is that you value Brown and Wilson differently than I do. I think they're replacement level and non assets. They're cap filler in any package trades. They're not even upgrades to anyone the Warriors have right now.

So either accept the initial terms or agree to disagree on value.

Cap fillers on rookie contracts? ...LOL! come to your senses man...

The truth is that there are teams that would be great to them to have Brown, others that would find Wilson a great addition and others that the players don't fit because they have alternatives... Wilson would be very useful to the Nets, GSW, the Thunder or the Hornets... Brown would be a great addition to the Pistons (he would start at SG there), absolutely perfect for GSW, the Lakers, the Thunder again (he would start at SF there), the Raptors, the Magic and a number of more...

Have you noticed Brown's per 36 numbers? Do you know many players in the league that are of 6.6'' height with huge 7.2 wingspan and play bigger than their size? Brown shoots 35% from 3, scores 14pts, collects 10 reb per, steals the ball in 1.5 possessions per and passes 4 assists ... he can play from PG to PF (with SG and SF being his best) do you know many on/off players that can guard bigs, are 3&D on his size/length and can play all from PG to PF while still at 23yo and only in their 3rd season in the league?

 

[CitySushi]

Cap fillers on rookie contracts? ...LOL! come to your senses man...

The truth is that there are teams that would be great to them to have Brown, others that would find Wilson a great addition and others that the players don't fit because they have alternatives... Wilson would be very useful to the Nets, GSW, the Thunder or the Hornets... Brown would be a great addition to the Pistons (he would start at SG there), absolutely perfect for GSW, the Lakers, the Thunder again (he would start at SF there), the Raptors, the Magic and a number of more...

Have you noticed Brown's per 36 numbers? Do you know many players in the league that are of 6.6'' height with huge 7.2 wingspan and play bigger than their size? Brown shoots 35% from 3, scores 14pts, collects 10 reb per, steals the ball in 1.5 possessions per and passes 4 assists ... he can play from PG to PF (with SG and SF being his best) do you know many on/off players that can guard bigs, are 3&D on his size/length and can play all from PG to PF while still at 23yo and only in their 3rd season in the league?

The Warriors just signed Damian Lee to a multi-year contract that is only partially guaranteed. This year his numbers, shooting percentages, and Per 36 numbers are all better than Sterling Brown's. And this was a player who was converted from a 2-way contract. He is on a true team friendly deal in that it's only partially guaranteed with outs for the team. He's more valuable than Brown and I don't proclaim here to be an asset.

Marquese Chriss recently was waived by the Warriors. He passed through waivers unclaimed (on a MINIMUM contract). His numbers, shooting percentages, and PER 36 are all superior to DJ Wilsons. He's now on a 2-way contact. Oh andChriss is a full year younger than DJ Wilson.

But Brown and Wilson are assets? Absolute joke.

 

[tlance]

Funny how that works.

Every time I want to write @buckalis for some reason my phone takes away the first 6 letters of your name, flips the letters I and S and automatically puts in Stupid Idiot.

wow.

You must have a really smart phone!

 

[buckalis]

The Warriors just signed Damian Lee to a multi-year contract that is only partially guaranteed. This year his numbers, shooting percentages, and Per 36 numbers are all better than Sterling Brown's. And this was a player who was converted from a 2-way contract. He is on a true team friendly deal in that it's only partially guaranteed with outs for the team. He's more valuable than Brown and I don't proclaim here to be an asset.

Marquese Chriss recently was waived by the Warriors. He passed through waivers unclaimed (on a MINIMUM contract). His numbers, shooting percentages, and PER 36 are all superior to DJ Wilsons. He's now on a 2-way contact. Oh andChriss is a full year younger than DJ Wilson.

But Brown and Wilson are assets? Absolute joke.

You contradict your own words with your claims here... Chriss was waived from the team that is in the bottom of the league and nobody wanted him and Lee's numbers are with GSW... Brown is a valuable rotation piece with the best team in the league and was never waived, while his numbers are after playing in the best team's roster...

I guess you are trying to compare apples with oranges here... I assure you that if any team would have valued your players better than the 2-way contract on a team that fights to avoid ending up with the worst record in the league, they would have sign them already!

For Brown, they will be paying!

May I remind you that it was Rajon Tucker the Jazz have preferred to sign from the Wisconsin Herd... not Lee or Criss out of GSW's waivers!

 

[buckalis]

Sekou Doumbouya (my prediction for being the steal of the past draft during this past off-season) with 14pts in 17mins against the Celtics in only his 14th game in the league...

We have a true diamond here... I think I will have to revise the Pistons future... This 19y.o. guy reminds me most of Giannis from the time I first watched him playing with French team Limoges... He was only 17 at the days...

 

[trojanfan12]

I think buck-Alice is scared of the Heat. That's why he keeps trying to move them to the West.

 

[shopson67]

Everybody is entitled to have an opinion, even if he is wrong in this world...

IMO, Brown will be valued much higher than you think on any trade, especially after his ball handling skills have exploded to the degree of being able to play PG in the (ultra demanding) Bucks roster, after the MIL training stuff worked on him so hard on the matter and Wilson you underestimate because of Giannis/Ilyasova presence, which automatically puts him under their shadow...He would be a fine rotation piece on any NBA roster and with more potential to progress further in the short term.

The Bucks renewed Bender because he has the potential and the age to be their future center and have put all they have on him in training power as to achieve it... Yesterday it was the 1st time that Bender was used in the regular rotation, all other times before yesterday were garbage time... The difference on his body and the abilities on having a physical game were more than evident with all the muscles he has added within three months...

The 22y.o. will prove to be a steal for the Bucks in the near future with the exceptional basketball skills he has, the phenomenal mobility for his size and the clutch shooting potential... He is just starting (from scratch)...

It's great to be optimistic about your team, but your rooting interest is clouding the line between fact and opinion here. Bender is worth trying to develop, but he's far from a sure thing and already in his 4th year in the league. The Suns used him more than the Bucks have, and it's a bit early to call one 20+ minute appearance a trend (and in that appearance, he was basically just tall, getting rebounds and fouls).

 

[shopson67]

Actually it's pretty much the same thing the Nets will face next season... they have to dump (not trade for equal value or respective salaries) the salary and lose two out of Dinwiddie, Harris, LeVert or Prince... Does it mean to you that their value will be what the return will be?
No it won't because the Nets need to dump salary...

Those four players are vastly more talented than Snell...you have to see that, right?

 

[shopson67]

Cap fillers on rookie contracts? ...LOL! come to your senses man...

The truth is that there are teams that would be great to them to have Brown, others that would find Wilson a great addition and others that the players don't fit because they have alternatives... Wilson would be very useful to the Nets, GSW, the Thunder or the Hornets... Brown would be a great addition to the Pistons (he would start at SG there), absolutely perfect for GSW, the Lakers, the Thunder again (he would start at SF there), the Raptors, the Magic and a number of more...

Have you noticed Brown's per 36 numbers? Do you know many players in the league that are of 6.6'' height with huge 7.2 wingspan and play bigger than their size? Brown shoots 35% from 3, scores 14pts, collects 10 reb per, steals the ball in 1.5 possessions per and passes 4 assists ... he can play from PG to PF (with SG and SF being his best) do you know many on/off players that can guard bigs, are 3&D on his size/length and can play all from PG to PF while still at 23yo and only in their 3rd season in the league?

Per 36 averages are largely useless, especially when talking about bench players. Sterling Brown averages about 15 minutes per game. Extending him to 36 minutes is not the same as extending his stat rates to 36 minutes. If he's playing that much, he's now playing as a starter, vs other starters, and with the other Bucks starters, and all 3 of those scenarios will negatively affect his performance (playing against tougher competition for longer stretches with other Bucks that will take away his shot attempts, assist attempts, and rebound opportunities). Foul trouble in extended minutes can also become an issue.

 

[buckalis]

Per 36 averages are largely useless, especially when talking about bench players. Sterling Brown averages about 15 minutes per game. Extending him to 36 minutes is not the same as extending his stat rates to 36 minutes. If he's playing that much, he's now playing as a starter, vs other starters, and with the other Bucks starters, and all 3 of those scenarios will negatively affect his performance (playing against tougher competition for longer stretches with other Bucks that will take away his shot attempts, assist attempts, and rebound opportunities). Foul trouble in extended minutes can also become an issue.

To the contra, any player that has ever been given more minutes, improves his numbers. The few exceptions are only good to confirm the general rule...

 

[shopson67]

To the contra, any player that has ever been given more minutes, improves his numbers. The few exceptions are only good to confirm the general rule...

Not to per36 levels though. There is no logic built into that stat.

 

[Sparhawk]

Not to per36 levels though. There is no logic built into that stat.

Ummmm, most quality starters can average 36 minutes per game.
There is value in extrapolating for per 36 stats, but not all cases.
That being said, with more load management, we may see more value in a per30 stat.

Clearly, Boban is not a 22 and 16 guy as he may not be built to last 36 minutes.
But, per 36 for someone like Mitchell Robinson has value.

It's more of a way to extrapolate for rookies playing 15-25 minutes per game.

 

[buckalis]

I will be revising the list based on newer info and evidence and then revise it again if there are moves that affect the long term power rankings happening until the trade deadline, or addition of FAs after the trade deadline.

I will be moving the Clippers down a few places, due to the inability to use picks in possible trades which makes it difficult to improve the rest of the roster next to their Stars.

I'll be moving the Pistons above the Thunder, because of rookie Sekou Doumbouya proving to be a player with exceptional present and future potential...

Heck, the 19 y.o. feller had only have 14 games and scored 24pts in 25mins at Boston to lead the Pistons beating the Celtics... Like the Thunder, the Pistons also have a capable roster to surround their present and future leader, but Doumbouya's potential looks to be even significantly higher than Alexander's and the Pistons have less than the Thunder to do in order to contend, as well as better financials.

I'll be moving the NETs some places up, because by checking again, they won't pay the lux tax this season (one site had it wrong)... Although they will have to go deep into the tax for the next season and the seasons that follow, not paying the lux tax this season makes a lot of difference, because they have timed the contracts of Kyrie and AD to expire exactly on the season that they will be repeaters tax elligible...

I'll be moving the Mavericks a bit down, because Doncic doesn't look to be any more exceptional or contributing more to his team than some other young future potential All-Stars.

I'll be moving the Raptors a bit up, because their Stars core although expiring and some of them aging, they look the favorites to resign them and their future financials allows them to add a super star out of free agency...

I've also swapped places bringing the Pels one place up and the Wizards a respective place down, because... I like it better this way, it's more fair!

Future power rankings (revised):

1. Boston Celtics
2. Miami Heat
3. Milwaukee Bucks
4. Memphis Grizzlies
5. Detroit Pistons
6. Dallas Mavericks
7. Utah Jazz
8. Los Angeles Clippers
9. OKC Thunder
10. Charlotte Hornets
11. Minnesota Timberwolves
12. Golden State Warriors
13. Toronto Raptors
14. New Orleans Pelicans
15. Washington Wizards
16. Chicago Bulls
17. Indiana Pacers
18. Orlando Magic
19. Denver Nuggets
20. Atlanta Hawks
21. Cleveland Cavaliers
22. Sacramento Kings
23. Brooklyn Nets
24. Los Angeles Lakers
25. Houston Rockets
26. Philadelphia 76ers
27. Phoenix Suns
28. New York Knicks
29. Portland Trail Blazers
30. San Antonio Spurs

 

[Sparhawk]

I will be revising the list based on newer info and evidence and then revise it again if there are moves that affect the long term power rankings happening until the trade deadline, or addition of FAs after the trade deadline.

I will be moving the Clippers down a few places, due to the inability to use picks in possible trades which makes it difficult to improve the rest of the roster next to their Stars.

I'll be moving the Pistons above the Thunder, because of rookie Sekou Doumbouya proving to be a player with exceptional present and future potential...

Heck, the 19 y.o. feller had only have 14 games and scored 24pts in 25mins at Boston to lead the Pistons beating the Celtics... Like the Thunder, the Pistons also have a capable roster to surround their present and future leader, but Doumbouya's potential looks to be significantly higher than Alexander's and the Pistons have less than the Thunder to do in order to contend, as well as better financials.

I'll be moving the NETs up some places up, because by checking again, they won't pay the lux tax this season (one site had it wrong)... Although they will have to go deep into the tax for the next season and the seasons that follow, not paying the lux tax this season makes a lot of difference, because they have timed the contracts of Kyrie and AD to expire exactly on the season that they will be repeaters tax elligible...

I'll be moving the Mavericks a bit down, because Doncic doesn't look to be any more exceptional or contributing more to his team than some other young future potential All-Stars.

I'll be moving the Raptors a bit up, because their Stars core although expiring and some of them aging, they look the favorites to resign them and their future financials allows them to add a super star out of free agency...

I've also swapped places bringing the Pels one place up and the Wizards a respective place down, because... I like it better this way, it's more fair!

Future power rankings (revised):

1. Boston Celtics
2. Miami Heat
3. Milwaukee Bucks
4. Memphis Grizzlies
5. Detroit Pistons
6. Dallas Mavericks
7. Utah Jazz
8. Los Angeles Clippers
9. OKC Thunder
10. Charlotte Hornets
11. Minnesota Timberwolves
12. Golden State Warriors
13. Toronto Raptors
14. New Orleans Pelicans
15. Washington Wizards
16. Chicago Bulls
17. Indiana Pacers
18. Orlando Magic
19. Denver Nuggets
20. Atlanta Hawks
21. Cleveland Cavaliers
22. Sacramento Kings
23. Brooklyn Nets
24. Los Angeles Lakers
25. Houston Rockets
26. Philadelphia 76ers
27. Phoenix Suns
28. New York Knicks
29. Portland Trail Blazers
30. San Antonio Spurs

Other than the order, it looks right.

 

[flyerhawk]

Other than the order, it looks right.

He did spell the names of the teams properly. Have to give him credit for that.