The First Professional Golf Draft : CHAT

[UK Cowboy]

and lets not pretend Trout is a great defensive CF...

Finally the truth

 

[ehb5]

Why are you telling me these things, this has nothing to do with what the conversation was actually about period! Fuck

What? That literally was the conversation...

 

[ehb5]

I'm not saying Canseco was a better all around player than Trout, I'm saying his first 6 seasons the numbers were just as good, which they were. The player comparison was Trout to Mantle, and
how you are trying to make it an automatic that Trout will put up the exact same numbers for the next 15-16 years when history(Canseco) tell us we can't make that jump.

Youre missing my point. I make zero assumptions about Trouts future. I am evaluating him based on what hes done. And based on that hes way better than Canseco.

 

[Nosferatu]

Nope it was about overall players. I didnt need to bring up defense because your argument was already wrong with just offense. 500 brought up defense and was absolutely correct in doing so. I agreed, while not making a big point out of it.

So in summary - you were wrong before defense was brought up. Then it got brought up only further proving how wrong you originally were. And so you bailed cuz you had no argument.

What a clown, you never once said anything about defense, you never said well defensively trout was far superior, you said NOTHING about defense, the conversation was about numbers and MVP voting and you know it, you lost so you now you make it seem likes that what you meant all along. Go back and look at the conversation, show me where even one word about defense was brought up by YOU, it wasn't until 500 mentioned it that you jumped in like that's what you meant the entire time.

You fucking lost move on.

FACT their OFFENSIVE numbers are similar the first few years of the career, nothing you say changes that.

If you had mentioned defense I would have agreed, Canseco was terrible defensively, I actually got to see him play, didn't read it in a book or form my own opinion by listening to other peoples opinion.

 

[ehb5]

What a clown, you never once said anything about defense, you never said well defensively trout was far superior, you said NOTHING about defense, the conversation was about numbers and MVP voting and you know it, you lost so you now you make it seem likes that what you meant all along. Go back and look at the conversation, show me where even one word about defense was brought up by YOU, it wasn't until 500 mentioned it that you jumped in like that's what you meant the entire time.

You fucking lost move on.

FACT their OFFENSIVE numbers are similar the first few years of the career, nothing you say changes that.

Thats literally what I just told you. Read dude.

The discussion was about overall players. Defense is part of the game. Not to mention Im right even if we ignore it.

The whole point was we cant crown Trout because Canseco started just as hot. Except Trout started wayyyy hotter. That involves everything about a player. And Im the one changing the argument lol.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

First off, I don't really think Canseco's were better than Trouts, they were close though... So IMO this comparison was stupid in the first place...

Really the only season Canseco was better than Trout was in 1996 where he only played 96 games...

 

[Nosferatu]

Thats literally what I just told you. Read dude.

The discussion was about overall players. Defense is part of the game. Not to mention Im right even if we ignore it.

The whole point was we cant crown Trout because Canseco started just as hot. Except Trout started wayyyy hotter. That involves everything about a player. And Im the one changing the argument lol.

LOL ok I give up it's like trying to have a conversation with a 6 year old.

 

[ehb5]

LOL ok I give up it's like trying to have a conversation with a 6 year old.

Right back at ya bud.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Youre missing my point. I make zero assumptions about Trouts future. I am evaluating him based on what hes done. And based on that hes way better than Canseco.

Way better? Both guys won an MVP before 24, let's compare(as to D, Trout has never and won a GG, so just stop)

MVP 1- .287, 36 HR's, 111 RBI, 16 SB, .377 OBP, .561 SLG, .939 OPS, 168 OPS+, and 184 K's

MVP 2- .307, 42 HR's, 124 RBI, 40 SB, .391 OBP, .569 SLG, 959 OPS, 170 OPS+, and 128 K's

One of those MVP seasons does blow the other away. I'd tell you how was better, but I think you can already guess.....

 

[Mebert]

Good golf talk everyone.

side golf note: Did you know that Bobby Jones is the only player with a grand slam in the same calendar year? and that he was so confident that he would do it that he actually bet $1,200 on himself to do it. He won $60,000 in 1930 for that.

 

[Mebert]

Good golf talk everyone.

side golf note: Did you know that Bobby Jones is the only player with a grand slam in the same calendar year? and that he was so confident that he would do it that he actually bet $1,200 on himself to do it. He won $60,000 in 1930 for that.

No word yet on if Baseball tried to keep him out of the HoF

 

[UK Cowboy]

First off, I don't really think Canseco's were better than Trouts, they were close though... So IMO this comparison was stupid in the first place...

Really the only season Canseco was better than Trout was in 1996 where he only played 96 games...

However... If Canseco had put up another 15-16 years like his first 5, he'd have been around 700 HR's when he was through. You can't compare Trout to MANTLE because he might flop in a few years. It happens

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Way better? Both guys won an MVP before 24, let's compare(as to D, Trout has never and won a GG, so just stop)

MVP 1- .287, 36 HR's, 111 RBI, 16 SB, .377 OBP, .561 SLG, .939 OPS, 168 OPS+, and 184 K's

MVP 2- .307, 42 HR's, 124 RBI, 40 SB, .391 OBP, .569 SLG, 959 OPS, 170 OPS+, and 128 K's

One of those MVP seasons does blow the other away. I'd tell you how was better, but I think you can already guess.....

you say one doesn't blow the other one away... But I think MVP 2(Canseco) does blow away MVP 1... He was better in EVERY single category posted...


And this is the exact reason I hate WAR... It is a joke that MVP1 had the higher oWAR than MVP2... Just because of position... When comparing offense, shouldn't we just be talking offensively??

 

[ehb5]

Way better? Both guys won an MVP before 24, let's compare(as to D, Trout has never and won a GG, so just stop)

MVP 1- .287, 36 HR's, 111 RBI, 16 SB, .377 OBP, .561 SLG, .939 OPS, 168 OPS+, and 184 K's

MVP 2- .307, 42 HR's, 124 RBI, 40 SB, .391 OBP, .569 SLG, 959 OPS, 170 OPS+, and 128 K's

One of those MVP seasons does blow the other away. I'd tell you how was better, but I think you can already guess.....

And that MVP season for Trout was his worst year while Cansecos MVP was his best, but you have conveniently ignored that. And I forgot that if you dont win a gold glove youre bad at defense...

 

[ehb5]

Good golf talk everyone.

side golf note: Did you know that Bobby Jones is the only player with a grand slam in the same calendar year? and that he was so confident that he would do it that he actually bet $1,200 on himself to do it. He won $60,000 in 1930 for that.

Thats actually awesome.

 

[ehb5]

However... If Canseco had put up another 15-16 years like his first 5, he'd have been around 700 HR's when he was through. You can't compare Trout to MANTLE because he might flop in a few years. It happens

All seriousness, where is Mantle coming from? I havent said his name until this post.

If they both put up 20 years of play like their first 5 seasons Trout would have a better career.

 

[UK Cowboy]

you say one doesn't blow the other one away... But I think MVP 2(Canseco) does blow away MVP 1... He was better in EVERY single category posted...


And this is the exact reason I hate WAR... It is a joke that MVP1 had the higher oWAR than MVP2... Just because of position... When comparing offense, shouldn't we just be talking offensively??

Exactly. canseco blew him away. Actually, if you look at the decline in Trout's speed #'s and increase in K's, he may have already seen his best days

 

[MilkSpiller22]

However... If Canseco had put up another 15-16 years like his first 5, he'd have been around 700 HR's when he was through. You can't compare Trout to MANTLE because he might flop in a few years. It happens

Well you can... It is OK to compare peaks... of course Trout only playing 5 seasons you have to consider that his peak... Take both players BEST 5 seasons, and if Trout is better(which he is not vs Mantle) then you can call trout better... I agree with Nos that we cant predict what will happen, but we can at least analyze how good a player is currently, and HOW long it took them to be this great...

 

[UK Cowboy]

All seriousness, where is Mantle coming from? I havent said his name until this post.

If they both put up 20 years of play like their first 5 seasons Trout would have a better career.

You were talking about young golfers being compared to legends, which brought up the Mantle/Trout debate between you and Nos. I used Canseco's #'s to show you can't project. You say IF Trout puts up 20 years of #'s like he has he'll have a better career than Mantle. Guess what sport, if he only puts up 10 more, he's not Mantle, he's Dale Murphy. 10 is a lot more likely than 20

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Exactly. Damascus blew him away. Actually, if you look at the decline in Trout's speed #'s and increase in K's, he may have already seen his best days

I have said that before... Got in trouble in the Harper vs Trout thread for saying I would rather take Harper because his ceiling is higher with his bat IMO... And Since Trout is already too good Angels don't want to risk him on the base paths...