The bad news about getting Lattimore

[Hangman]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am kind of disappointed to get Lattimore. And for one big reason, I want someone to be the feature back who won't come out until 2015 earliest. I always wanted someone with that name to run the ball on the 49ers. Barry Sanders Jr. Imagine if we had Barry Sanders with the offensive line the niners have now. Totally unstoppable. BJ is faster than his dad and can make cuts just like him. Now to see if he has the vision of Sr. His nickname by the runningbacks coach at Stanford is "Gethimthedamnball"(if you didn't get it, I was not really upset to draft Lattimore.)

 

[MHSL82]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am kind of disappointed to get Lattimore. And for one big reason, I want someone to be the feature back who won't come out until 2015 earliest. I always wanted someone with that name to run the ball on the 49ers. Barry Sanders Jr. Imagine if we had Barry Sanders with the offensive line the niners have now. Totally unstoppable. BJ is faster than his dad and can make cuts just like him. Now to see if he has the vision of Sr. His nickname by the runningbacks coach at Stanford is "Gethimthedamnball"(if you didn't get it, I was not really upset to draft Lattimore.)

Lesson: reading comprehension or reading the whole post! I thought you were lamenting that Lattimore didn't come out two years from now (at least 2015). I thought, well, his injury might prevent him from playing until 2014, if that makes you feel better. I thought maybe you wanted Gore for two more years.

Then, I read the Barry Sanders, Jr. comment and it made sense.

 

[NinerSickness]

Speaking of BSJ, why did he redshirt his freshman year? To keep the odometer low?

 

[Badger8843]

We got more bad ass running backs then you can shake a stick at. Gore still has a couple good years left. After he leaves or retires we will have Hunter, James and Lattimore. Teams will be drooling over that 3 headed monster

 

[deep9er]

for me, not getting TOO far ahead on Lattimore. do think the odds are good next season, but not thinking NFL "elite" by any means. let him progress at his own pace, and we'll see?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

So Deep, thoughts on the Eric Reid pick? The draft in general?

 

[deep9er]

So Deep, thoughts on the Eric Reid pick? The draft in general?

i've been consistent on the Reid pick ever since it was concluded, you see the guy you want, go get him. ie good move to secure your BPA who happens to fill your biggest need.

for the class in general, i can only go by what i've been reading here.....the potential looks great and almost seems "too good to be true", considering our 31st draft slot?

but IMO there are injury reasons why we got Tank and Lattimore where we did? so very happy with the projections for this class, but cautiously optimistic due to injuries.

if you're asking me for detailed analysis of each player, admitting now there is no way.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

i've been consistent on the Reid pick ever since it was concluded, you see the guy you want, go get him. ie good move to secure your BPA who happens to fill your biggest need.

for the class in general, i can only go by what i've been reading here.....the potential looks great and almost seems "too good to be true", considering our 31st draft slot?

but IMO there are injury reasons why we got Tank and Lattimore where we did? so very happy with the projections for this class, but cautiously optimistic due to injuries.

if you're asking me for detailed analysis of each player, admitting now there is no way.

Was Reid the BPA? This makes it sound like you would approve of any trade up by the FO, if not any move by the FO period.

 

[deep9er]

Was Reid the BPA? This makes it sound like you would approve of any trade up by the FO, if not any move by the FO period.

yes, i trust this FO now, but as you know i do throw out my draft 2 cents even though its worth exactly that. from what i've read following his pick, seems reasonable he's our BPA? in particular, what caught my attention is his smarts, didn't recall that prior to the draft?

there might be a trade (up or down) where i think the value isn't right? if it doesn't make sense i'll question the vlaue? so no, wouldn't say i'll always take EVERYTHING they do as right.

in this particular Reid trade, you don't like it and thats fine. if thats how you feel, then take a stance like Bingo. don't try to temper it, don't try to 'slip in' you trust the FO when obviously you don't like it?

 

[BINGO]

i've been consistent on the Reid pick ever since it was concluded, you see the guy you want, go get him. ie good move to secure your BPA who happens to fill your biggest need.

for the class in general, i can only go by what i've been reading here.....the potential looks great and almost seems "too good to be true", considering our 31st draft slot?

but IMO there are injury reasons why we got Tank and Lattimore where we did? so very happy with the projections for this class, but cautiously optimistic due to injuries.

if you're asking me for detailed analysis of each player, admitting now there is no way.

Are you referring to what SportsHoopla 49ers fans have been saying about the players we selected? Fans are like sheep, more often than not people tend to be very reactive in favor of a player as soon the pick happens as if they had been a big advocate of a player from the get go. Most fans I bet you viewed the trade as being a good thing (like you said, getting the player that you covet to fill a position of dire need) without taking into account the players we could have landed at pick 74.

It's like buying stock in the stock market today, it seems like a no brainer now! because you may view it as an immediate investment on return; until you realize what other stocks were available at the same time of purchase (less expansive) but could be more lucrative 5 years down the line.

 

[deep9er]

Are you referring to what SportsHoopla 49ers fans have been saying about the players we selected? Fans are like sheep, more often than not people tend to be very reactive in favor of a player as soon the pick happens as if they had been a big advocate of a player from the get go. Most fans I bet you viewed the trade as being a good thing (like you said, getting the player that you covet to fill a position of dire need) without taking into account the players we could have landed at pick 74.

It's like buying stock in the stock market today, it seems like a no brainer now! because you may view it as an immediate investment on return; until you realize what other stocks were available at the same time of purchase (less expansive) but could be more lucrative 5 years down the line.

it is the same for 49er fans here, national writers, national draft-niks, 49ers FO, etc.. if what they say makes sense to me, then i'll buy it. if its logical, then i'll buy it. if its questionable or i'm not sure, i'll ask questions.

i've said from the get go, your opinion is fine. if you're sticking with it, thats fine too. but if you're frustrated not many have taken your position, you shouldn't be surprised?

 

[BINGO]

it is the same for 49er fans here, national writers, national draft-niks, 49ers FO, etc.. if what they say makes sense to me, then i'll buy it. if its logical, then i'll buy it. if its questionable or i'm not sure, i'll ask questions.

i've said from the get go, your opinion is fine. if you're sticking with it, thats fine too. but if you're frustrated not many have taken your position, you shouldn't be surprised?

I get it. You rely on others to make decisions for you rather than do your own research. You settle for anything/everything Baalke has said or done including drafting AJ Jenkins, despite who we passed up on. You have no opinion about no prospects until the FO has made a desicion. Let's trash all the materials you have read for months and all the college football games you have seen on any give prospect. Your opinion and research does not mean anything, just as long as our FO is the one making the choices for you. For the 10th time, I am not frustrated. I don't give a rat's a$$ what others feel the way I do about the trade or the 49ers players in general.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

yes, i trust this FO now, but as you know i do throw out my draft 2 cents even though its worth exactly that. from what i've read following his pick, seems reasonable he's our BPA? in particular, what caught my attention is his smarts, didn't recall that prior to the draft?

there might be a trade (up or down) where i think the value isn't right? if it doesn't make sense i'll question the vlaue? so no, wouldn't say i'll always take EVERYTHING they do as right.

in this particular Reid trade, you don't like it and thats fine. if thats how you feel, then take a stance like Bingo. don't try to temper it, don't try to 'slip in' you trust the FO when obviously you don't like it?

So let me get this straight. Your stance is that you like the move because it seems like the value of the trade was favorable, you trust the FO, and he MIGHT HAVE BEEN our BPA - even though Baalke clearly went after needs hard in this draft. Apparently that passes for "tak[ing] a stance." However, when I say I'm not crazy about the trade but I trust the FO, I'm not "tak[ing] a stance"? That makes sense.

As for my feelings on the move, they are tempered. I don't strongly dislike the move. I certainly don't hate it. I virtually never see things in black and white, which may look like tempering. I don't like to grade drafts right after they happen. The trade up is not the move I would have made. I have some questions about it. But like you, I trust the FO. See, really the only difference between our "stances" is that I actually have some independent opinion as the move relates to this particular draft, whereas you have entirely fallen back on the "I trust the FO." Perhaps I shouldn't criticize, though. It's a stronger opinion than we usually get.

 

[deep9er]

I get it. You rely on others to make decisions for you rather than do your own research. You settle for anything/everything Baalke has said or done including drafting AJ Jenkins, despite who we passed up on. You have no opinion about no prospects until the FO has made a desicion. Let's trash all the materials you have read for months and all the college football games you have seen on any give prospect. Your opinion and research does not mean anything, just as long as our FO is the one making the choices for you. For the 10th time, I am not frustrated. I don't give a rat's a$$ what others feel the way I do about the trade or the 49ers players in general.

i just explained how i approach it and if you took it to mean i don't think, then no sense continuing. i'd bet most of us here do it similar to me?

you do read more stuff, i can tell, but you're still not the 49ers. you don't have the medical insight they get, you don't evalute the person via interviews, and you certainly don't understand our schemes like the Coaches.

you're frustrated just by how you're posting now.

 

[deep9er]

So let me get this straight. Your stance is that you like the move because it seems like the value of the trade was favorable, you trust the FO, and he MIGHT HAVE BEEN our BPA - even though Baalke clearly went after needs hard in this draft. Apparently that passes for "tak[ing] a stance." However, when I say I'm not crazy about the trade but I trust the FO, I'm not "tak[ing] a stance"? That makes sense.

As for my feelings on the move, they are tempered. I don't strongly dislike the move. I certainly don't hate it. I virtually never see things in black and white, which may look like tempering. I don't like to grade drafts right after they happen. The trade up is not the move I would have made. I have some questions about it. But like you, I trust the FO. See, really the only difference between our "stances" is that I actually have some independent opinion as the move relates to this particular draft, whereas you have entirely fallen back on the "I trust the FO." Perhaps I shouldn't criticize, though. It's a stronger opinion than we usually get.

pretty sure Baalke said he went after BPA, but it happened to meet needs? was Tank the BPA at his spot, or was he a need pick? was Vance BPA at his spot, or a need pick? Lemonier? Patton? Lattimore?

no, i just explained i don't 'fall back' entirely on the FO, but if you don't comprehend it, what more can i say?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

pretty sure Baalke said he went after BPA, but it happened to meet needs? was Tank the BPA at his spot, or was he a need pick? was Vance BPA at his spot, or a need pick? Lemonier? Patton? Lattimore?

no, i just explained i don't 'fall back' entirely on the FO, but if you don't comprehend it, what more can i say?

There was something from the week before the draft about Baalke going BPA, but that was the headline, not what he actually said. What he said was that he tries to address NEEDS, but addresses them two years out instead of needing a bunch of guys to come in and start day one.

I think Baalke balances need and value. But there is virtually no doubt that he is remarkably needs-driven in his approach, especially in early rounds. 2010 we needed OL, so we went Davis and Iupati. 2011 we needed pass rush, so we went Aldon. He also went Kap in round two. In 2012 our need at WR was glaring so he took Jenkins. And this year we desperately needed a safety. This draft in particular, our first three picks all addressed fairly significant needs, including arguably our two biggest question marks (S and second TE). Heck, you considered OLB our biggest need just before the draft, so let's include that one. The 4th round was more about the value those two players represented, but early it was all about glaring needs at present and in the near future.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Here is the Baalke quote:

BAALKE: You would prefer not to be in a position where you have to draft a need. You would rather draft prior to need. So in other words, when you need a cornerback, when you need a running back, when you need an offensive lineman, that year you need them is not the year you pick them. Historically, how many rookies have come in and established themselves as The Man at any position?

Someone - I forget who - interpreted that as not drafting for need, but taking BPA. That's not what he said, though. He's saying it's important to anticipate needs before they become so glaring that you are forced to address them. It's still drafting based in large part on need, it's just needs that are a year or two out.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

There was something from the week before the draft about Baalke going BPA, but that was the headline, not what he actually said. What he said was that he tries to address NEEDS, but addresses them two years out instead of needing a bunch of guys to come in and start day one.

I think Baalke balances need and value. But there is virtually no doubt that he is remarkably needs-driven in his approach, especially in early rounds. 2010 we needed OL, so we went Davis and Iupati. 2011 we needed pass rush, so we went Aldon. He also went Kap in round two. In 2012 our need at WR was glaring so he took Jenkins. And this year we desperately needed a safety. This draft in particular, our first three picks all addressed fairly significant needs, including arguably our two biggest question marks (S and second TE). Heck, you considered OLB our biggest need just before the draft, so let's include that one. The 4th round was more about the value those two players represented, but early it was all about glaring needs at present and in the near future.

Baalke mixes it up though a lot though - he's almost like a bi-polar value junky and is completely unpredictable. He ignored need in favor of BPA when he took Bowman in the third round which was a surprising at the time. The James pick was very similar to that too.

In the later rounds sometimes he'll take wild fliers on CB's, and add ST players/need at other times. So it's even difficult to draw any conclusions what he'll do there.

I agree Baalke has a tendancy to overdraft players early when we have a glaring need (Davis, Jenkins, Reid). But I'm on the fence with other moves like McDonald, because I get the feeling we had him rated high and needed to make that move in order to steal him away from Seattle. I personally have a hard time lumping Aldon Smith into that category too because I think he was also rated very high.

We dropped back on the Carradine pick, so it's really hard to argue he pressed need on that pick. That is a case where our need and value of this particular draft collided.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Baalke mixes it up though a lot though - he's almost like a bi-polar value junky and is completely unpredictable. He ignored need in favor of BPA when he took Bowman in the third round which was a surprising at the time. The James pick was very similar to that too.

In the later rounds sometimes he'll take wild fliers on CB's, and add ST players/need at other times. So it's even difficult to draw any conclusions what he'll do there.

I agree Baalke has a tendancy to overdraft players early when we have a glaring need (Davis, Jenkins, Reid). But I'm on the fence with other moves like McDonald, because I get the feeling we had him rated high and needed to make that move in order to steal him away from Seattle. I personally have a hard time lumping Aldon Smith into that category too because I think he was also rated very high.

We dropped back on the Carradine pick, so it's really hard to argue he pressed need on that pick. That is a case where our need and value of this particular draft collided.

It's always going to be a mix, but Baalke has looked strongly at need. I'm not knocking it. It's worked out, and he's gotten good value as well. I just think it's a stretch to assume BPA.

In terms of a draft strategy, I think you should really only consider say the first three rounds. After that, too much goes into the decisions. There are productive players lacking measurables, players with great measurables lacking production, guys with injury or character concerns. Particularly in the late rounds, you might be looking at a specific role or you might just swing for the fences on a physical talent. But in the early rounds you're looking at "surer" things, at least. And Baalke has looked a need a lot in those situations.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

I do not agree that he focuses strongly on need in the first three rounds though. This year it can be argued, but look at what he did previously.

He does have a tendency to fall in love with players at our primary need position in the first round. That is true. But look at the Bowman and James picks in previous years. The Carradine pick also showed that he is more value conscience as he was willing to trade back and risk losing the top d-line player on the board in place of getting the value of a future pick.