The 2023-2024 NBA Season

[Stakesarehigh]

...or they could be watching the games and the results? Hmmmm

So in watching these games they think he's the best defender in the NBA?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Of course not. That is however a stat that he continues to lead the league in, so I included it.

You know who else isn't the best defensive center? Rudy Gobert.

He is still light years better than Jokic defensively.

 

[fightinfunbags]

So in watching these games they think he's the best defender in the NBA?

This is pretty neat:
1. The reasoning behind him winning 3 of 4 leans heavily on the analytics
2. When someone points out the fugaze analytics show a guy who is the GOAT defender in NBA history it’s “well, nobody believes that”.

And there’s apparently no inconsistency in any of that.

 

[shopson67]

It is all about stats…analytical stats. It is what it is. Jokic is here at the right time in sports. He’s a unicorn according to the advanced stats. Even the holes in his game are rewarded by the analytics. He’s a cheat code that’s broken metric. That’s why he’s won 3 of the last 4. Meanwhile, 2 of the 3 MVP presentations will take place on his horse farm because by the time it came around to present him the award he will be out of playoff home games.

You would have to poll the voters about that. We don't know what they use for their decisions.

Regular season award, so whether or not his performance carries his team to a title doesn't mean a lot. Which candidates did win titles in the past 4 years? Should they have gone to Lebron, Giannis and Curry? Lebron finished a distant second to Giannis in 2020. Giannis finished 4th in his title year behind Jokic, Embiid and Curry. Curry finished 8th in his title year, behind such questionable candidates as Booker and Morant. Jokic lost in his title year to Embiid.

 

[shopson67]

He is still light years better than Jokic defensively.

Not the comparison I'm making, but sure. Still vastly overrated (much like JJJ).

 

[shopson67]

This is pretty neat:
1. The reasoning behind him winning 3 of 4 leans heavily on the analytics
2. When someone points out the fugaze analytics show a guy who is the GOAT defender in NBA history it’s “well, nobody believes that”.

And there’s apparently no inconsistency in any of that.

It goes to show that there is yet to be a good stat to evaluate defensive ability.

 

[fightinfunbags]

He is still light years better than Jokic defensively.

Jokic can’t do the two primary things the league looks for in a modern big defensively:
1. He isn’t switchable and he can’t compete on the perimeter with a smaller quicker player he’s been switched on to.
2. He isn’t a rim protector.

Meanwhile, these analytics over value defensive rebounds and that’s the only thing left for a guy who isn’t coming off a man late to challenge at the rim or find himself taken on to the perimeter with a switch. Even his shortcomings get erased by the metric. None of the voters give a fuck about that. They have blinders on when it comes to the data. They likely don’t even understand what the data measures or communicates.

 

[fightinfunbags]

You would have to poll the voters about that. We don't know what they use for their decisions.

Nah, it’s abundantly clear that it’s data driven.

Regular season award, so whether or not his performance carries his team to a title doesn't mean a lot.

You sure? @tlance has been using post season results to diminish Embiid and the MVP. Let’s pick a lane.

 

[fightinfunbags]

It goes to show that there is yet to be a good stat to evaluate defensive ability.

Doesn’t keep people from leaning on it lazily as these voters do.

 

[shopson67]

Nah, it’s abundantly clear that it’s data driven.

You sure? @tlance has been using post season results to diminish Embiid and the MVP. Let’s pick a lane.

I'm not TLance...

Postseason exploits do tend to carry over to the following year's voting though. High exposure production.

 

[shopson67]

Doesn’t keep people from leaning on it lazily as these voters do.

That's an assumption of course.

 

[eaglesnut]

So in watching these games they think he's the best defender in the NBA?

They don't watch. The main problem with sports reporting is people pretending they watched.

Here's what most of them are watching:
01001101010110000100001010100101000100101010100010001001010101001001010101010101010010101010101010101010101010101000101001010101010101001010101001010101010011110101001010101010110101001010101101001101010110000100001010100101000100101010100010001001010101001001010101010101010010101010101010101010101010101000101001010101010101001010101001010101010011110101001010101010110101001010101101001101010110000100001010100101000100101010100010001001010101001001010101010101010010101010101010101010101010101000101001010101010101001010101001010101010011110101001010101010110101001010101100drrrr10101010100010010101011010100101110101011010jokic00101010101010drrrrr010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010010101010101101010010101011010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010010101010101101010010101011010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010010101010101101010010101011010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010010101010101101010010101011010010101010101101010010101011010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111010101001010101010110101001010101101001101010110000100010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010010101010101101010010101011

That's not basketball. You can look at all those digits as many times as you want and it will never turn into basketball.

 

[shopson67]

They don't watch. The main problem with sports reporting is people pretending they watched.

Here's what most of them are watching:
01001101010110000100001010100101000100101010100010001001010101001001010101010101010010101010101010101010101010101000101001010101010101001010101001010101010011110101001010101010110101001010101101001101010110000100001010100101000100101010100010001001010101001001010101010101010010101010101010101010101010101000101001010101010101001010101001010101010011110101001010101010110101001010101101001101010110000100001010100101000100101010100010001001010101001001010101010101010010101010101010101010101010101000101001010101010101001010101001010101010011110101001010101010110101001010101100drrrr10101010100010010101011010100101110101011010jokic00101010101010drrrrr010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010010101010101101010010101011010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010010101010101101010010101011010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010010101010101101010010101011010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010010101010101101010010101011010010101010101101010010101011010011010101100001000010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111010101001010101010110101001010101101001101010110000100010101001010001001010101000100010010101010010010101010101010100101010101010101010101010101010001010010101010101010010101010010101010100111101010010101010101101010010101011

That's not basketball. You can look at all those digits as many times as you want and it will never turn into basketball.

Stats are a reflection and summary of what's happening, nothing more. Nobody watches all of the games, so it's a tool.

 

[fightinfunbags]

That's an assumption of course.

And a solid one. It’s the only think special about the performances of Jokic in the last 4 years. It’s all analytics driven. Dude is having his moment at the right time in sports.

 

[eaglesnut]

Stats are a reflection and summary of what's happening, nothing more. Nobody watches all of the games, so it's a tool.

It is boring and that's the problem. Real stats are a reflection of what happenED on the court. They are not reinterpretations of the summary of the game. You are falling for marketing gimmicks. It's easy for the twitter nerds to get caught up in the gimmick.

 

[shopson67]

It is boring and that's the problem. Real stats are a reflection of what happenED on the court. They are not reinterpretations of the summary of the game. You are falling for marketing gimmicks. It's easy for the twitter nerds to get caught up in the gimmick.

Sportswriters and broadcasters vote for MVP. Not your typical "twitter nerds". The award should be given the appropriate value given who votes. Maybe they should make it a player and/or coach vote?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Jokic can’t do the two primary things the league looks for in a modern big defensively:
1. He isn’t switchable and he can’t compete on the perimeter with a smaller quicker player he’s been switched on to.
2. He isn’t a rim protector.

Meanwhile, these analytics over value defensive rebounds and that’s the only thing left for a guy who isn’t coming off a man late to challenge at the rim or find himself taken on to the perimeter with a switch. Even his shortcomings get erased by the metric. None of the voters give a fuck about that. They have blinders on when it comes to the data. They likely don’t even understand what the data measures or communicates.

Lugentz Dort has a negative DBPM and Jokic like a 6 or something crazy.

Tell me there isn't something wrong with this stat.

Jokic looks amazing in the sense when he is off the court the team struggles (as teams do without their star) but for Denver when you have Peyton Watson or the corpse of DeAndre Jordan out there it makes Jokic look like the second coming of Ben Wallace.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

If we are being objectively serious here

NAW and Conley should be Co Mvps

Those guys instead of bum ass Russell changed the landscape of the conference

 

[tlance]

Sportswriters and broadcasters vote for MVP. Not your typical "twitter nerds". The award should be given the appropriate value given who votes. Maybe they should make it a player and/or coach vote?

Honestly?

Players and coaches are even worse.

It needs to be a small panel of neutral basketball people. Like maybe less than 10.

Trusted insiders who earn the right to be part of the discussion.

And it shouldn’t be just a vote. It should be a committee coming together and discussing the award winners before voting.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Lugentz Dort has a negative DBPM and Jokic like a 6 or something crazy.

Tell me there isn't something wrong with this stat.

Jokic looks amazing in the sense when he is off the court the team struggles (as teams do without their star) but for Denver when you have Peyton Watson or the corpse of DeAndre Jordan out there it makes Jokic look like the second coming of Ben Wallace.

All they’ve done is just diminish the value of the award. I don’t know why they even bother with voting now. Just keep a spread sheet and update it weekly so fan’s can follow. That’s what dictates the vote anyway.