Suh's new contract??????

[gvsulaker82]

The ebron debate will not end until he proves to fans that he wasnt worth the number ten pick in the draft and as most of us are rational we should give him a couple of years before we make that decision. I think he will be a good TE, but there will never be a time that I say wow ebron was worth a top ten pick in the draft. If you are looking to draft a TE that cant block in the top ten why not a WR? In a perfect world that pick would have been used on the OLINE or defense. But many of us that dont like it have no choice but to live with it, its not going to change so theres really nothing else we can say. We can only hope hes good and hope mayhew doesnt draft a RB or WR or TE in first round again.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Thats another thing that should be looked at by us fans. What kind of loyalty will a guy like Suh show this team? I know most dont like it but at least Stafford and CJ have signed long-term deals and been willing to restructure when the team needed it. I think Suh did too but I forgot.

Why does suh need to be loyal at all? Its a business. The lions would be disloyal to a player with no problem whatsoever, its the nature of the game.

 

[TwoCents22]

Why does suh need to be loyal at all? Its a business. The lions would be disloyal to a player with no problem whatsoever, its the nature of the game.

Would you be at all pissed at Suh, let's say, if he signed in New England for 5 years $50 million?

 

[broncosmitty]

Would you be at all pissed at Suh, let's say, if he signed in New England for 5 years $50 million?

No, they're committed to winning. Id prolly buy my second Patriots jersey.

 

[TwoCents22]

No, they're committed to winning. Id prolly buy my second Patriots jersey.

Who's the first? Let me guess, Tate? Brandon Tate?

 

[broncosmitty]

Thats another thing that should be looked at by us fans. What kind of loyalty will a guy like Suh show this team? I know most dont like it but at least Stafford and CJ have signed long-term deals and been willing to restructure when the team needed it. I think Suh did too but I forgot.

Stafford restructured? He got a dumb-as-fuck extension, I don't remember him restructuring. Suh did.

 

[broncosmitty]

Who's the first? Let me guess, Tate? Brandon Tate?

Bledsoe.

 

[Microwahevo]

Stafford restructured? He got a dumb-as-fuck extension, I don't remember him restructuring. Suh did.

Detroit Lions restructure contracts of Matthew Stafford, Ndamukong Suh and Nate Burleson | MLive.com

 

[broncosmitty]

Never realized he restructured his rookie deal before the extension. Now I'll remember. Also see that Reggie Bush did.

I won't forget how much I can't stand Mayhew.

 

[broncosmitty]

Turns out I forgot all about that round of restructures. I did remember the time CJ and Suh restructured. No wonder we'll be paying Suh 9mil next season to play elsewhere. One guy....... Two restrusctures in two years......Stupid fucking Mayhew........

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You really need to learn how to use Google, man. This whole taking a wild stab at the stats you think you remember technique just isn't working.

Suh has had 16.5 sacks 103 tackles over the last 3 seasons, counting 2012, 2013, and 7 games of 2014 so far. Suh had better numbers last season alone than you're trying to say he had in the last 3.

If you're going to use stats to show what you perceive to be the limited impact a player has had, at least use the right stats. If you have to purposely diminish his numbers, I think that kind of proves the opposite of the point you were trying to make...

Pretty humorous when you try to be a sarcastic smart ass in your post and only make yourself look foolish again. I'm sure you will play the victim again and say I came at you somehow, even though I was having a normal discussion about Suh.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So what about when I debunked that theory by showing that Ebron could easily rack up 100 targets in this offense? Remember? It was pretty basic stuff, really. I just took Stafford's average number of passing attempts over the last 3 years and divided those up equally among his targets. The numbers show that 100 targets is not even remotely out of the question, so the theory that he can't make an impact here due to limited opportunities just doesn't hold any water.

You can skew numbers anyway we'd like to make the argument one way or the other. There was only one team in the NFL last year with 3 players with 100 or more targets -- Denver. I'd go back and look further back, but my computer has been acting up. But i'm guessing it is few and far between.

So saying the targets are there, but making up imaginary stats and actually seeing it done on the field are two different things. Is it possible? Sure. Anything is possible. Is it probable? IMO, no, not unless Detroit gets rid of one of the players seeing a lot of targets and Ebron inherits them.

I'm not going to argue about this though -- as the only way anything can be proven, is on the field.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Maybe I'm just difficult to understand? Or you want to argue? I'll take the blame, man, seriously. I wasn't trying to rehash the whole Ebron debate.

I will use any excuse to talk about Ebron, as I have never hated a pick made by the Lions more than that pick. Ryan Broyles was a close 2nd though.

As far as agreeing and disagreeing. I have agreed with different parts of your posts and if I disagreed about something, I respond why I disagree. I apologize if I go off on tangents at times and I'm rambling -- half the time I post -- I start my comment and then end up getting pulled away and lose my train of thought and try to pick up where I left off. Sometimes it doesn't always work.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Suh is providing much more than sacks this year. I believe I read somewhere that hes number one at DT for combined sacks, hurries, knockdowns on QB. Hes just coming into his prime, the lions defense is elite and much of that can be directly attributed to how powerful suh is. He constantly requires double teams, he stuffs the run all day long. Im not saying hes the only guy doing it on the defense but imo the most important. So yes, hes definitely worth a huge contract. In the next five years he will put up ridonkulous numbers at DT, lets just hope its for detroit.

This is what confuses me about many of the fans who want Suh signed at any cost. Since Suh is the biggest reason the Lions defense is elite now. Or is it the addition of Ansah, George Johnson, J.Jones, Devin Taylor, Fairley playing for a contract, the emergence of Levy and a secondary who has played much better and a brand new scheme and defensive coordinator?

Who gets the blame for the Lions being average to mediocre Suh's 1st 4 years on defense? Seems if he is getting all the accolades now that the defense has played really well -- Shouldn't he shoulder the blame when the defense struggles, as he is the most important piece on the defense?

Also -- what happens if the Lions defense gets lit up in the 2nd half? Do we still break the bank on Suh? What if the Lions make the playoffs and our defense gets lit up and we are 1 and done?

So many questions -- I would HATE to see Suh playing for someone else, but I would hate even more seeing the Lions pay a DT 4 or 5 million more than any other DT. It just seems absurd to me.

 

[TwoCents22]

This is what confuses me about many of the fans who want Suh signed at any cost. Since Suh is the biggest reason the Lions defense is elite now. Or is it the addition of Ansah, George Johnson, J.Jones, Devin Taylor, Fairley playing for a contract, the emergence of Levy and a secondary who has played much better and a brand new scheme and defensive coordinator?

Who gets the blame for the Lions being average to mediocre Suh's 1st 4 years on defense? Seems if he is getting all the accolades now that the defense has played really well -- Shouldn't he shoulder the blame when the defense struggles, as he is the most important piece on the defense?

JJ Watt is and has been on an average, or bad defense. Warren Sapp has been on a bad defense(and no Sapp wasn't over the hill, he was 31). I could keep going, but those 2 guys have been brought up in comparison.

You can't discredit Suh for having been on a bad defense, and then say we can't pay him if he's not JJ Watt or Sapp.

When Schwartz took over, his first year we were 32nd in both points and yards allowed. I'm not going to look up the stats again, as they're somewhere on this thread, but we jumped up to middle of the pack in Suhs first year with our major additions on defense being KVB, Corey Williams, and Chris Houston.

Every year since, while not top 10, we have been closer to that than to the 32nd defense, also while mentioned as one of the best Dlines in football. Please dont tell me you think KVB, SLH, Cliff Avril, or Corey Williams were big reasons why? While a motivated Fairley, and a top 5 pick Ansah are upgrades, they still feast off of what Suh brings to the table, just like all the Dlinemen before them.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

JJ Watt is and has been on an average, or bad defense. Warren Sapp has been on a bad defense(and no Sapp wasn't over the hill, he was 31). I could keep going, but those 2 guys have been brought up in comparison.

You can't discredit Suh for having been on a bad defense, and then say we can't pay him if he's not JJ Watt or Sapp.

When Schwartz took over, his first year we were 32nd in both points and yards allowed. I'm not going to look up the stats again, as they're somewhere on this thread, but we jumped up to middle of the pack in Suhs first year with our major additions on defense being KVB, Corey Williams, and Chris Houston.

Every year since, while not top 10, we have been closer to that than to the 32nd defense, also while mentioned as one of the best Dlines in football. Please dont tell me you think KVB, SLH, Cliff Avril, or Corey Williams were big reasons why? While a motivated Fairley, and a top 5 pick Ansah are upgrades, they still feast off of what Suh brings to the table, just like all the Dlinemen before them.

I understand guys like Watt and Sapp have been on bad defenses. I'm not in the mood to look up defensive team stats for Houston and TB to see how they were.

The reason I brought up JJ Watt is -- He is the guy everyone mentions first as the best defensive player in the NFL. He is facing the same double teams Suh faces and on a couple plays during the Sunday night game they were on -- they showed him being triple teamed. He still puts up monster numbers. The last two years, he has had over 80 tackles a year. He has had 8 forced fumbles the last 2 years. Has 23 passes defensed the last two years. 31 sacks the last two years or the same amount Suh has in 4 years.

I know Watt is listed as a DE, but he plays both DT and DE. IMO, that is someone who deserves to be the highest paid player in the NFL on defense. It is why I mentioned 2000 Warren Sapp, when he had 16.5 sacks. If Suh put up those type of numbers -- I'd have no problem paying him as one of the highest paid players in the NFL.

To me -- I believe Suh IS the best player on the Lions defense, I'm not arguing that, but it wasn't until 2013 that the Lions really started becoming a much better defense. In 2010 -- we gave up 23 PPG. In 2011 -- we gave up 24 PPG. In 2012 -- we gave up 27 PPG. In 2013 -- we still gave up 23 PPG, but we showed flashes of being really good against the run with Suh, Ansah and Fairley playing in 15 games.

Suh is definitely one of the best DT in the game -- I'm just not sure how people talk so highly of his run stopping, It has never been a strength in his game. I'm not sure where he ranked last year, but in 2012 he ranked 73rd out of 85 DT's against the run. His strength is rushing the passer. Detroit's run defense didn't become really good until we drafted Ansah, Fairley was able to play in 15 games and Levy emerged as an elite LB.

This is why I have no issue paying him as an elite DT, but I do have an issue at paying him 20-30% more than any other DT and making him one of, if not, the highest paid player on the defensive side of the ball.

If Detroit wants to give him 13-14 million a year -- I'm all for it. It is the 16-17 million where I think it is grossly overpaying for any DT right now.

 

[gandydancer]

MIKE D

I hate copying your stories to backspace for a hour to get one sentence. (At least from phone)Future reference break that shit down to 11 posts.

Devils advocate...
My struggle with Suh making 16-17 is same as yours. My inner debate is that if Suh is focal point and the reason this defense works with Austin's scheme. Is he worth it? Problem is hard to answer that without seeing him gone.
Tell me it is Austin or Suh? Sell me on it. Don't give me last three years with Suh either we sucked. So did many of guys around him.

 

[TwoCents22]

I think this is something we can all almost agree on. I'd just be willing to give Suh more money than some.

I've always believed you build a defense from the Line first. Still do. It used to be commonplace to think that way. Now a lot of people think you need a shutdown corner. It started with Revis, I think. Then hit a peak when the Seahawks started dominating with 3 All-Pro's in the secondary.

Maybe I'm stubborn, but I still think a D-line is more important than a secondary.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I've always believed you build a defense from the Line first. Still do. It used to be commonplace to think that way. Now a lot of people think you need a shutdown corner. It started with Revis, I think. Then hit a peak when the Seahawks started dominating with 3 All-Pro's in the secondary.

Maybe I'm stubborn, but I still think a D-line is more important than a secondary.

I think you still have to have a solid line to have a solid defense. While Seattle is known for their secondary -- they still had a quality front 7. Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, Red Bryant, Bobby Wagner, etc. So the DL is definitely important.

I think the biggest change to me in the NFL is -- The league is pass happy now, so the CB position is more valuable than ever, which is why we see the elite guys signing record deals. To me -- it is much easier to find a quality DT than it is to find a quality CB.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Tell me it is Austin or Suh? Sell me on it.

It is impossible to know right now? I can say without question, it isn't only Suh. I think it is Darius Slay playing much better. Glover Quin playing much better. Ansah has looked really good the last couple games.

The Lions lead the league in sacks and Suh has 3, so they are getting help from all over.

Who knows? Maybe teams haven't figured out the best way to attack the Lions, as this is Austin's 1st year as a DC.