State your case

[ViperVisor]

It's Fantasy Land and it works great! Look, you throw your pass to Walker, I'll throw my pass to Manningham.

I don't like either throw. But picking one.

I'd prefer a good throw to Walker *closer to the sideline* vs a good throw to Manningham.

 

[Bemular]

I don't like either throw. But picking one.

I'd prefer a good throw to Walker *closer to the sideline* vs a good throw to Manningham.

So you would rather make a very low percentage pass with a QB not known for making low percentage passes to an essentially triple covered TE not known for making difficult catches in traffic as opposed to throwing to Manningham streaking wide-open across the middle of the field with one defender between him and 6 points!

Like I said, you make your pass - I'll make mine.

 

[CalamityX11]

HAZAAAR page 5!!!!

 

[ViperVisor]

So you would rather make a very low percentage pass with a QB not known for making low percentage passes to an essentially triple covered TE not known for making difficult catches in traffic as opposed to throwing to Manningham streaking wide-open across the middle of the field with one defender between him and 6 points!

Like I said, you make your pass - I'll make mine.

Come on..

Streaking wide-open my ass.

The over the top guy was 5+ yards away same as the under when the ball came down.

 

[Bemular]

HAZAAAR page 5!!!!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[clyde_carbon]

It's Fantasy Land and it works great! Look, you throw your pass to Walker, I'll throw my pass to Manningham.

And yours has a better chance of connecting, based on those two pics. I agree.

 

[ViperVisor]

It is right in front of Smith and he sees the safety. You can't BS about Smith not seeing something on the other side of the field like on some other play.

He made a better choice to but still not a good choice to throw it up to Walker.

 

[Bemular]

Come on..

Streaking wide-open my ass.

The over the top guy was 5+ yards away same as the under when the ball came down.

You once again have made my point. By the time the ball comes down the defenders are going to be closer, to a lot closer to the ball.

Thus, by saying "The over the top guy was 5+ yards away same as the under when the ball came down." means he would have been WIDE-OPEN when the ball was thrown - which is precisely what I have been saying.

Here are a couple other notes:

The Giants are not at all in a soft zone as you suggested but rather in a man-under one or a disguised man-under one. When Walker goes in motion Rolle chases, showing he is locked up on Walker while Amukamara has Manningham on an inside, trail tech.

When Walker comes off the line however, Rolle peels to the flat allowing Walker to get behind him. Rolle then turns to chase Walker but he is too far up field. At that point Rolle calls for help over the top forcing Amukamara to pick-up Walker on the stem leaving Manningham wide open at mid-field.

Running verticals vs. a man-under one is the right call and if Amukamara had gone with Manningham toward the middle the play would have worked for a huge gain as Walker was well behind Rolle. Instead, Prince stayed with Walker and Smith threw the ball right to him.

Smith not only made a horrible decision to throw to Walker but he made a horribe pass as well.

 

[ViperVisor]

leaving Manningham wide open at mid-field.

Bull. Crap.


His route was taking him right to CF where the goddamn safety is watching the whole thing.

He was rounding off his route and would of had to make a catch at the 45 with his momentum heading down the field. If slammed on the break and turned at the 50 the safety would have no chance to react and close.

That wasn't the route. He wasn't wide open.

 

[Bemular]

Bull. Crap.


His route was taking him right to CF where the goddamn safety is watching the whole thing.

He was rounding off his route and would of had to make a catch at the 45 with his momentum heading down the field. If slammed on the break and turned at the 50 the safety would have no chance to react and close.

That wasn't the route. He wasn't wide open.

"...the goddamn safety is watching the whole thing."

Well, considering he was deep in a one-shell that makes all kinds of sense. But that has nothing to do with the fact that Amukamara stayed with Walker instead of trailing Manningham which left Manningham wide open.

Like I said, you throw your pass and I'll throw mine. Thing is, we know what happens when you throw your pass.

 

[mem49er]

He's basically saying that Alex throws too hard on some passes and floats others. I can't argue with that; those two statements aren't contradictory. That's what happens when you have an inconsistent QB who at times looks inaccurate.

Saying you want downfield shots doesn't mean you want bad decisions downfield. That's what that pass was. I understand the aura of hypocrisy to those screaming for a deep pass, but it's not like all deep passes are toss ups. So it's a bit insulting to sports SportsHoopla guys to say that they are blind to good deep shots and bad deep shots. There's a difference between a risky pass, a low percentage shot, and a bad decision. Execution is separate from bad decisions (though both could happen on the same play).

Sometimes, Smith gives up on a downfield pass before the point where deciding whether taking a shot is a good or bad decision has come. So some of the criticism isn't him passing up a guy who is open but rather bailing on an opportunity where he didn't even evaluate whether a pass would be a good decision or not.

I'm a big Smith supporter, but I'll take this as a bad game with bad decisions, move on, and hope for the Seattle game to be a great game. I won't say that was as bad of a decision than the others, and it certainly isn't one that others don't also make.

Sums up alot of my thoughts.

 

[mem49er]

I remember thinking Manningham should have been the target when I saw it live, when I rewound the DVR and now looking at these pictures. Also, this is the exact scenario when Alex needs better anticipation. As Manningham makes his break, the ball should have been on the way. The safety could not have made a play.

 

[mem49er]

This.

We are still 4-2 with alex at the helm. Chalking it up to a bad game move on to seattle.

Here's a question. If we're 5-3 at the bye, do we switch to Kap? We'd be second in the division.

 

[Bemular]

ViperVisor:

This photo comes as Manningham has eyes-on and Smith is one hitch-step from release. Smith is absolutely oblivious to Manningham even being in the stadium let alone being WIDE-OPEN AT MID-FIELD. Please tell me again how Manningham is not WIDE-OPEN at mid-field in this picture and how Walker is somehow the "best option".

The defense was either a disguise or busted coverage. Either way, this play was designed to go to Walker from the huddle. Smith, however, should have seen the mismatch inside with Manningham and checked out of it pre-snap. Even post-snap, a sight-adjust demands this pass go to Manningham! But no, instead our Prince decides to throw it to their Prince.

This is classic stupid QB'ing at its finest.

 

[SY8goat]

Smith should have passed to Manningham or the receiver between the 40 and 30. Though, the pass to Manningham had to be thrown before he gets to 49er logo.

 

[clyde_carbon]

ViperVisor:

This photo comes as Manningham has eyes-on and Smith is one hitch-step from release. Smith is absolutely oblivious to Manningham even being in the stadium let alone being WIDE-OPEN AT MID-FIELD. Please tell me again how Manningham is not WIDE-OPEN at mid-field in this picture and how Walker is somehow the "best option".

The defense was either a disguise or busted coverage. Either way, this play was designed to go to Walker from the huddle. Smith, however, should have seen the mismatch inside with Manningham and checked out of it pre-snap. Even post-snap, a sight-adjust demands this pass go to Manningham! But no, instead our Prince decides to throw it to their Prince.

This is classic stupid QB'ing at its finest.

Jesus. How is that even a question? I don't see how you DON'T throw that ball to Manningham. That ball should've been out of there before Mario planted his foot.

But you should expect a response along the lines of, "HERP DERP, LOL, GO BACK TO ESPN BOARDSZ!"

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

I don't know why this is such a big debate. Smith forced it, he said after the game he forced it trying to make a play. He most likely read the defense pre-snap and thought Walker would be his best bet, and the defense did an even better job of disguising the coverage once the play started. He probably thought that safety was cheating toward Manningham rather than Walker, and really because the ball had no velocity the safety could have made a play on a throw to either guy. Bad throw and decision.

The whole game reminded me of that Eagles game a few years ago where the defense knew exactly how to fuck up and exploit Smith, baiting him into bad throws into disguised coverage.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

I don't see how you DON'T throw that ball to Manningham.

There's a safety 8 yards away from him in that shot, and an LB (the guy standing on the 44) a few yards away from the passing lane. From Smith's perspective that is not a slam dunk, IMO. Missed opportunity, but he doesn't have the quick release cannon that makes that an easy pass.

 

[deep9er]

Smith should have passed to Manningham or the receiver between the 40 and 30. Though, the pass to Manningham had to be thrown before he gets to 49er logo.

yep, timing goes hand in hand with accuracy. timing is why the good NFL passers can make it work, even against good coverage. Eli was throwing into good coverages, but his timing allowed it to work.

not going to keep demanding or hoping Alex can some day do it too. our overall philosophy demands zero or few turnovers, so Alex is being 'programmed' that way. he will not throw into tight coverages in the same manner as Eli.

but i'm fine if in return he does keep the INT's low. this last game is more exception than rule.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Though, the pass to Manningham had to be thrown before he gets to 49er logo.

OK, this is a better way to look at it. I wasn't considering this.