State of the Seahawks 2020 offseason

[Screamin12th]

Not a bad signing... Someone who can pull the safety away from the middle of the field... He may not catch a lot of passes but he'll help others get a few more than not...

Yeah he will be the #3 or #4 WR on the team so it's not like he has to be a super star, just has to be better than Brown and Moore was last year. That shouldn't be to hard but i think Moore takes a nice step forward this coming season. He had his sophomore slump.

 

[Anointed One]

Yeah he will be the #3 or #4 WR on the team so it's not like he has to be a super star, just has to be better than Brown and Moore was last year. That shouldn't be to hard but i think Moore takes a nice step forward this coming season. He had his sophomore slump.

J. Brown has been a waste of a roster spot the past few seasons... Dorsett is definitely an upgrade over him in terms of helping the team...

 

[flyerhawk]

Was a legitimate question sorry if it made you feel stupid but it wasn't me being a dick. you brought up how fast doesn't mean you can catch and he CAN catch and catch well so why even bring it up unless you didn't know?

It didn't make me feel stupid in the least bit. It made me feel like you were looking to start a fight rather than have a discussion, which is something you tend to do. I have no idea why you even felt the need to start off like a dick about it.

He had a 53% ACTUAL catch rate last year. He has a career 58% actual catch rate on low volume. The most receptions he has ever had is 33 in a season. He's entering his 6th season and now on his 3rd team. The Colts, who were already awash with receiving talent, traded him away. The Patriots, who are hardly awash with receiving talent, let him walk.

Maybe rather than looking for stats to justify your argument you look at his actual career.

I would love for Dorsett to prove me wrong and be a valuable contributor. I just don't see him being anything more than smaller faster Jaron Brown.

 

[Screamin12th]

On the graph you got your numbers from ( targeted passes count against % not CATCHABLE passes ) Odell Becham has a 55% catch rate, that is really a UNFAIR way to judge a catch rate. Now here try this one it's much better. Your graph is extremely flawed and is why there is a graph for CATCHABLE targets.

Phillip Dorsett - Player Profile Advanced Football Stats, Metrics & Analytics

they have a "TRUE" catch rate to go along with the catch rate based off of Closest WR in the area of the pass. The True catch rate is CATCHABLE balls divided by receptions not targets. If the QB throws a ball away over a WR head out of bounds thats a "target" to that WR. If the QB misses a ball by over throwing or under throwing and it is not even catchable thats a target for that WR. If the QB throws a poorly thrown ball and it's intercepted and the WR had no chance ... thats a target to that WR. Hope this helps you out.

It didn't make me feel stupid in the least bit. It made me feel like you were looking to start a fight rather than have a discussion, which is something you tend to do. I have no idea why you even felt the need to start off like a dick about it.

He had a 53% ACTUAL catch rate last year. He has a career 58% actual catch rate on low volume. The most receptions he has ever had is 33 in a season. He's entering his 6th season and now on his 3rd team. The Colts, who were already awash with receiving talent, traded him away. The Patriots, who are hardly awash with receiving talent, let him walk.

Maybe rather than looking for stats to justify your argument you look at his actual career.

I would love for Dorsett to prove me wrong and be a valuable contributor. I just don't see him being anything more than smaller faster Jaron Brown.

 

[flyerhawk]

On the graph you got your numbers from ( targeted passes count against % not CATCHABLE passes ) Odell Becham has a 55% catch rate, that is really a UNFAIR way to judge a catch rate. Now here try this one it's much better. Your graph is extremely flawed and is why there is a graph for CATCHABLE targets.

Phillip Dorsett - Player Profile Advanced Football Stats, Metrics & Analytics

they have a "TRUE" catch rate to go along with the catch rate based off of Closest WR in the area of the pass. The True catch rate is CATCHABLE balls divided by receptions not targets. If the QB throws a ball away over a WR head out of bounds thats a "target" to that WR. If the QB misses a ball by over throwing or under throwing and it is not even catchable thats a target for that WR. If the QB throws a poorly thrown ball and it's intercepted and the WR had no chance ... thats a target to that WR. Hope this helps you out.

DK Metcalf has a true catch rate of 70%. Jaron Brown? 88%. David Moore? 68%. Tyler Lockett? 87%. Larry Fitzgerald? 92%.


If we want to look at advanced stats then lets do it. What was Philip Dorsett's contested catch rate. 0.0.

Advanced metric are useful to a point but they aren't definitive.

 

[Screamin12th]

DK Metcalf has a true catch rate of 70%. Jaron Brown? 88%. David Moore? 68%. Tyler Lockett? 87%. Larry Fitzgerald? 92%.


If we want to look at advanced stats then lets do it. What was Philip Dorsett's contested catch rate. 0.0.

Advanced metric are useful to a point but they aren't definitive.

thats where the other metrics on that excellent resource come in handy, it's a great little tool and should replace your outdated one asap.

They have targeted rate and catchable balls per target like Last season only 75% of the balls thrown to Dorsett were catchable and he caught 70% of those and had only 1 drop in 2019 and 1 drop in 2018. 2018 he had a 84.2% catch rate.

Pretty cool little tool am i right? delete your bookmark on that other sight it's out dated.

they have dominator rating separation per target, average yards through air and on ground, average target distance QB rating when targeted ETC ETC ETC.

 

[Screamin12th]

flyerhawk what is your issue with this signing? he is not going to make it so the Hawks CAN'T sign Clowney or other Free agents he just means one of the other WR on this team will be cut. He is not a YES WE GOT A FREAKING SUPER STAR! he is what he is a 3rd or 4th option on a team that has Lockett and Metcalf.

Is Dorsett a stud? No but he is a talented WR and more so than Brown WHO btw has never had a issue really catching balls it's getting OPEN that was his issue. Former 1st round pick on his last chance to earn a payday. I am excited to see what he can do, as excited you can get for someone that is a #3 or #4 WR that will see most of his playing time on Special teams that is, meaning not all that excited lol.

You blech blech about it on other posts and snipe ( can't catch )then get pissed off when people bring up info facts and stats and call them assholes. calm down, take a deep breath this guy is a small tiny piece of this team that has no way effected the chances the Hawks sign Clowney or any other "DE" we would like to have like Griffen.

breathe just breathe lol

 

[flyerhawk]

thats where the other metrics on that excellent resource come in handy, it's a great little tool and should replace your outdated one asap.

Their available goes back 2 years. I remember when PFF first came out and I was blown away by all their data. Then I realized that their data had serious flaws, especially for away from play positions.

They have targeted rate and catchable balls per target like Last season only 75% of the balls thrown to Dorsett were catchable and he caught 70% of those and had only 1 drop in 2019 and 1 drop in 2018. 2018 he had a 84.2% catch rate.

Small sample size.

Pretty cool little tool am i right? delete your bookmark on that other sight it's out dated.

Seems useful. Although it appears they have a cap on how many searches you can do for free.

they have dominator rating separation per target, average yards through air and on ground, average target distance QB rating when targeted ETC ETC ETC.

All interesting stats but that doesn't change that he is a former 1st round pick on his 3rd team in 6 years.

 

[flyerhawk]

flyerhawk what is your issue with this signing? he is not going to make it so the Hawks CAN'T sign Clowney or other Free agents he just means one of the other WR on this team will be cut. He is not a YES WE GOT A FREAKING SUPER STAR! he is what he is a 3rd or 4th option on a team that has Lockett and Metcalf.

Is Dorsett a stud? No but he is a talented WR and more so than Brown WHO btw has never had a issue really catching balls it's getting OPEN that was his issue. Former 1st round pick on his last chance to earn a payday. I am excited to see what he can do, as excited you can get for someone that is a #3 or #4 WR that will see most of his playing time on Special teams that is, meaning not all that excited lol.

I don't see him providing much more value than we get from David Moore or Malik Turner and I think they have a better chance of developing into a productive player. Dorsett disappears in games. A lot.

You blech blech about it on other posts and snipe ( can't catch )then get pissed off when people bring up info facts and stats and call them assholes. calm down, take a deep breath this guy is a small tiny piece of this team that has no way effected the chances the Hawks sign Clowney or any other "DE" we would like to have like Griffen.

I called you an dick for the way you responded to me. I offered an opinion. It's fine if you disagree with my opinion. But when you respond with "He's actually very good at what you claim he's not good at. Or didn't you know that?" then you are just looking to be a dick. You couldn't simply say "I disagree and here's why". You had to engage in petty jabs as well. That sort of snotty behavior is the norm in the politics forum. I prefer that this place be much more civil.

breathe just breathe lol

If you think that I'm even slightly agitated you have woefully overvalued your own importance.

 

[Screamin12th]

All interesting stats but that doesn't change that he is a former 1st round pick on his 3rd team in 6 years.

Ok so we found it, this is the issue you have with him. He is a 1st round WR that has never came close to playing like a 1st round WR. I get it now but they Hawks are not paying him like a 1st rounder or a 2nd rounder they are paying him like a 3rd or 4th option for one year. They gave nothing up to grab him.

Most WR that are 3rd or 4th options disappear when the players in front of them are Healthy ( or come back from suspension)

As far as David Moore goes, i think he has a great season in 2020 and will be the #3 WR unless he gets injured or the hawks cut/trade him. To many people forget he had a rough season based off injuries getting banged up almost every week. ( Reminded me of Baldwins 2nd year )

As for that sight only going back for two years thats because all these stats were not tracked till then. I am so happy the NFL got serious on wanting to track more stuff and it helps the players and coaches out. Heck they didn't start tracking sacks till what the 80's lol. I love number and deep metrics, make it easier to see a pattern.

 

[flyerhawk]

Ok so we found it, this is the issue you have with him. He is a 1st round WR that has never came close to playing like a 1st round WR. I get it now but they Hawks are not paying him like a 1st rounder or a 2nd rounder they are paying him like a 3rd or 4th option for one year. They gave nothing up to grab him.

I don't think this is the end of the world. But this is probably 4 or 5 million that could be spent somewhere else. If we only spent 2 million then I'm fine with it.

As for that sight only going back for two years thats because all these stats were not tracked till then. I am so happy the NFL got serious on wanting to track more stuff and it helps the players and coaches out. Heck they didn't start tracking sacks till what the 80's lol. I love number and deep metrics, make it easier to see a pattern.

It's an interesting site and I might even get a subscription assuming football comes back. But I'm not going to view their stats as a definitive source. Just another useful tool, especially when their data correlates with other information.

 

[Screamin12th]

His Base salary last year was $1.5 million and 2.6 million with everything else count in, i would expect it to be 1-2 million. If they spent 5 million on Dorsett then it's even more a head scratcher than signing Olsen. He is not worth more than 1-2 million.

LMAO to be honest are any of them worth 1 to 2 million a year? i mean damn that sticks in my side like a thorn how they get money just thrown at them even when they are average or below average players.

 

[seattlefan75]

I do not think much of this signing its safe to say he is a bust to be in two offenses where there are two HOF pro bowl QBs and neither of them couldn't have a decent season with him and in both cases be low on the depth chart. I think that this is a sign they are not confident Josh Gordon can come back or at least is an insurance. The Seahawks want a veteran receiver with decent speed to help make big plays downfield which seems to be the theme with all their receivers.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

We all know PD isn't a Super star WR but his speed is key. Not only can he fly down the field but he also creates lanes to open up for our TEs and RBs out in the flats and middle of the field on crossing routes.

 

[flyerhawk]

We all know PD isn't a Super star WR but his speed is key. Not only can he fly down the field but he also creates lanes to open up for our TEs and RBs out in the flats and middle of the field on crossing routes.

I don't feel like our offense has a lack of speed. Metcalf and Lockett are both really fast. Both can take the top off the defense already.

What we need is another Doug Baldwin. A guy who can slide into the slot, get a little open and make tough catches.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I don't feel like our offense has a lack of speed. Metcalf and Lockett are both really fast. Both can take the top off the defense already.

What we need is another Doug Baldwin. A guy who can slide into the slot, get a little open and make tough catches.

You can never have enough speed to keep the D honest. Yes we have 2 burners but nothing wrong having another on the cheap. That extra speed also backs up the LBs and now have running lanes for our RBs when they hit the second part of the field.

This is where I hope Josh Gordon can come back cause he was making these Baldwin type tough catches to move the chains. If not, than head into the draft and find that Baldwin type player

 

[JMR]

I don't feel like our offense has a lack of speed. Metcalf and Lockett are both really fast. Both can take the top off the defense already.

What we need is another Doug Baldwin. A guy who can slide into the slot, get a little open and make tough catches.

I agree, and I think that guy could be Ursua.

 

[flyerhawk]

You can never have enough speed to keep the D honest. Yes we have 2 burners but nothing wrong having another on the cheap. That extra speed also backs up the LBs and now have running lanes for our RBs when they hit the second part of the field.

I guess. Hopefully he was signed at a pretty reasonable number. You don't need 3 guys running go routes though.

This is where I hope Josh Gordon can come back cause he was making these Baldwin type tough catches to move the chains. If not, than head into the draft and find that Baldwin type player

I would love to see Gordon come back to Seattle.

 

[flyerhawk]

I agree, and I think that guy could be Ursua.

He showed some glimpses. Hopefully a year of development will really help him.

 

[JMR]

I would love to see Gordon come back to Seattle.

Yeah, sign me up for that. I think that could be a lot more help than bringing in someone like Dorsett. Neither will catch 50 passes, but Gordon is a guy who can make big plays in key spots and is a much more accomplished player. He has a way better chance to make life easier for the other receivers than does Dorsett, IMO.